My first video share (100 balls w/12 misses)

Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
bluepepper said:
Blackjack, I also think you should put the video back up. Just because I didn't find it helpful doesn't mean that others won't. And maybe others will see the issues I have with it as well, which can lead to further discussion, which I'm not against.
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Jeff - I'm guessing you sleep on the couch a lot? :wink:

A little diplomacy never hurt. So if a guy takes his time to help you and you think he is off base in some of his comments, why not just ignore that part, or disagree politely, and concentrate on the one or two things you might have learned from his FREE advice. You are telling me there isn't ONE thing in his video that you learned and you didn't know before? I mean, even if it is just reinforcement of good practices that you are already aware of, being told it again is never a bad thing. BJ said you need to walk around the table. You said that even though you don't do that you are doing it in your mind very quickly. Really? I nearly fell off my chair! :eek: If you learn nothing from his video but this one thing, you should be grateful. You cannot survey the table from one perspective and claim that is the same thing as actually walking around the table. A guy who runs 200 balls has to walk around the table but the guy who runs 10 doesn't need to?

I think you have been a little defensive in these admittedly somewhat direct reviews you received (hey, these guys are pool players, not UN diplomats). There is a natural tendency for the student to try and show the teacher that he is really better and more knowledgeable than the teacher believes. It happens all the time and I've caught myself doing that. I suppose that is along the lines of that tea cup parable. Guess what, no matter how good you are it isn't going to impress the instructor. He doesn't really care. He simply wants to show you where you need to improve. If he is wrong about something, then ignore that point and move on to the next issue, and don't assume you know more than he does. If a guy doesn't know your game and makes bad assumptions, make some more videos and play better. Let him review your new video and learn more about your experience level. Why not make that video you were talking about where you talk out loud about your intentions?

Example: sparkle said draw a line from the foot spot to the side pocket corner. Any ball completely below that line is an "excellent" break shot. I remember the rule as being from one of the head balls to the side pocket corner, but I well could have that wrong. Also, is it really an "excellent" break shot? Well, you went ahead with a diagram showing curved lines and stun shot tangents, supposedly disproving sparkle's rule of thumb, and then questioning how that rule of thumb could have been around so long. Did you consider that any break shot that moves 3 or 4 balls into the clear might just be an "excellent" break for a 200 ball runner? Your diagram doesn't consider that you don't have to hit your break shots so hard that they are all following the tangent line into the pack. If you hit the upper or lower balls in the pack in a way that the cue ball can get clear, a natural follow is just fine. That's probably why the rule of thumb has been around so long. Now, being a rule of thumb, you should take it to the table and play around with the limitations for you and see how close to that line you can be. My follow up questions for sparkle would have been 1) Do you really consider a break ball near that line still to be "excellent" and why, and 2) Do you ever hear people use the top ball as the reference point instead of the foot spot, because that's what I recall. That keeps the discussion going and I might learn something.

As it is, you have a few excellent players who probably won't give you advice from here on out, which is too bad. I'm sure it was never your intent.
 
C

CueAndMe

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Let me try to explain my stance, because it appears that it's me against the 14.1 world right now. I admit that at times I can make bad planning errors. Everyone does, no matter what their level. Yes, I could have chosen better options for shots here and there. But a very real problem in this thread is when someone offering advice doesn't seem to be able to separate a player's planning from his execution. Platitudes from an ivory tower that do not account for the situations at hand should be challenged!

Some of the advice I got here was helpful, and I've already started working on using it and trying to improve. I wasn't aware that I was moving my bridge hand. I was hitting balls too hard, and my cue ball control needs work, so I'm working on drills. In my post after watching his video I did indeed agree with Blackjack that I need to walk around the table more, and I'm doing that more.

I don't know why everyone's coming down on me simply because I don't bow in reverence to allegedly great players (whom I've never seen play good 14.1) that are offering very questionable advice. And by asking me not to challenge advice that I find misleading, you're asking that I allow questionable instruction to be assumed as valid and to perpetuate misleading others who won't know to question it.

Sure I could be wrong about everything, and sure everything in the video and from Sparkle could be right, but it's certainly unproductive to remain silent. What kind of a culture do we have here if debate isn't welcomed? It shouldn't matter if a person's high run is 400, 100, 10, or 2. Lessons can be learned from everyone. Just look at all of the high running pros who get away with not playing good patterns. You don't think they could learn something from a lesser player who can't control the rock or shoot as well as they can? What if that lesser player has the capacity to see patterns 14 balls ahead that no one else can see? Is he to be ignored because his stick shakes and his eyes are bad?

Please read my comments to Blackjack again. I quote them below. They were not disrespectful. I thanked him for taking the time to do the video. He's a friend, and we messaged a bit on Facebook and we're cool, and he even offered great advice that I'm taking on video production. No worries there. And to his credit he didn't attack me for what I said. He's a gentleman who understands that some people aren't going to be helped by his offerings. Why do you feel the need to defend him? He's fully capable of defending himself if he chooses to do so. He's moved on.

"Hey, David. I just watched your commentated video. I do appreciate that you're trying to help, and I agree that I need to walk around the table more, take more time on each shot, and hit the balls softer. But trust me when I tell you that when I'm not moving around the table, my mind is moving quite a bit around the table. I see more options from certain perspectives, and moving is sometimes a distraction from all of the possible paths. I do agree I need to walk around the table to get the odd perspective though. I think I am doing more of that now as can be seen in the second video.

But I have to say that I disagree with you on many of the comments, both in theory and in analysis of the real life table situations and why they arose. Often we'll watch straight pool matches with top pros, and commentators who are great players themselves will disagree with one another and wonder what the heck the player at the table is doing. I know I'm not a pro at the table, but I could walk you and others through what I was thinking at each moment of this session, and you'll realize that 90% of what is seen as improper planning is actually changing from Plan A to Plan B and then Plan C and D and E. And this necessity to continually change plans boils down to 90% poor cue ball control and 10% fear of certain awkward shots."

Dan, I will do one of those videos where I talk through a rack or two some time in the next couple of weeks. Lots going on that doesn't even allow me to get to the table. But I do look forward to doing it, and it will be unique for the very reason that I'm not a straight shooter and can't control the rock, so I have to think harder through my racks than better players in order to have any chance to run a lot of balls. Half of my time spent at the table is finding routes of recovery and changes of plan. This is the stuff that's being overlooked by most of you, and I think it will help everyone to have a lesser player like me expose it. So stay tuned.

As for the Blackjack video, I could go shot by shot, comment by comment, defending my case. I really don't want to have to do it, because it would be drudgery for me, especially knowing how many of you assume I couldn't possibly know anything and so I'm not worth listening to. But if the video were put back up and people are truly willing to open their minds, which so far they haven't been, I'd do it.
 
Dan White

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't want to beat this to death. I'm a neutral observer and my observation is that you aren't particularly tactful. All you had to say to David is that you think you have a pretty good handle on strategy, but you don't appear to because of your cue ball control... and leave it at that.

That's just one issue, though. You reproduced the following text to show your agreement with walking around the table. I found your reply to be the exact opposite and that was my first impression when I read it. Here is the text with my translation in blue:

bluepepper said:
"Hey, David. I just watched your commentated video. I do appreciate that you're trying"trying"?- that's an odd thing to say to help, and I agree that I need to walk around the table more, take more time on each shot, and hit the balls softer. OK But trust me when I tell you that when I'm not moving around the table, my mind is moving quite a bit around the table. I see more options from certain perspectives, and moving is sometimes a distraction from all of the possible paths.In other words, I disagree that walking around the table is necessary. My way is better for me I do agree I need to walk around the table to get the odd perspective though.I suppose you could be right about moving around the table, but ONLY in the rare situation where I need to get an odd perspective (whatever that means) I think I am doing more of that now as can be seen in the second video.
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So agree or disagree, I'm just sayin' that's what I read into your replies. Blackjack quietly announced he was removing your video and, IMO, this is simply because you implied you don't trust his opinion, I guess, because he thought you had strategy deficiencies rather than cue ball control issues.

My suggestion, if you are an A level at strategy, is stop with the strategy discussion and spend that time working on your weaknesses.
 
S

sparkle84

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hey Dan,
If you refer to the picture in post #32 you'll note that the 5 ball is directly below that line. I would call that a very good BS. (maybe very good would have been a better word to use as opposed to excellent, but not by that much.)
It can be hit with decent speed and the position zone is good sized. If you start moving the OB further along that line away from the rack it remains a good BS. As you move farther away however, the position zone shrinks, though not appreciably, and you need to use some descretion as to speed and cue tip placement. That is true with all BS's that are a good distance from the rack no matter where they're positioned.
My whole point in mentioning that line was that it's a good guideline for recognizing whether or not a high BS is viable. Many people aren't sure of a certain ball position and this can help them.
I've never heard of that line mentioned or the one from the top ball either. It's just something I noticed many years ago and saw it as a way to quickly know for sure whether a ball was usable as an effective BS.
I noticed your 2nd post and I'll have some comments on that but it'll have to wait till the weekend.
I'm also working on some stuff regarding shot selection which I'll be posting on HUKIT's thread titled "New high run". You and others may find it interesting.
It's rather long and drawn out but that's because it's a very complicated subject.
 
Straightpool_99

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
I know better than to give advice where none is wanted. Especially since I pretty much agree with mr. Sapolis on 99% of straight pool matters. Who am I to give any opinions or advice when one the foremost authorities on 14.1 on this forum was ignored?

So instead I'll just say: I like your cue, looks really nice and you're potting balls very well on a tight table. Good luck with your straight pool playing.
 
Straightpool_99

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Blackjack said:
The video I made for you has been removed from Youtube.
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That's a real pity. I'd have loved to have seen it. I've learned a lot from your videos through the years, and I'm sure this would have been a good learning opportunity as well.

I have recently watched a couple of your videos on the mental side of the game, and I enjoyed them a lot. Thank you for taking the trouble to make them and uploading them for free.
 
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