Ivory ferrules - is a tip pad needed?

Jigger

Jigger

Lets Roll....(...(..(.(O
Silver Member
Will soon be replacing the tip on my ivory ferrule. Probably will use a Morri M or an Everest. I'm normally not an overly hard hitter and use a seperate break cue.

Do you recommend a tip pad between the ferrule and tip? Why? Is it needed to reduce the chance of cracking the ivory ferrule? Will a pad significantly change the "Hit"?

Thanks for your thoughts. ;)
 
cubswin

cubswin

Just call me Joe...
Silver Member
Not a cuemaker...

I've got one on the one shaft I own that is ivory. Don't know if its needed or not, heard various opinions. Makes it hit a little softer, but not much on my cue. Have had other cues where I never had a pad that were ivory, broke with them, jumped with them, and never had a problem. Think it really depends on the piece of ivory that your ferrule is made out of more than anything..

just my not a cuemaker 2 cents.
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Opinions will vary but the rule in my shop is, If you want an ivory ferrule, You have to get the pad.
 
B

BLACKHEARTCUES

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Michael Webb said:
Opinions will vary but the rule in my shop is, If you want an ivory ferrule, You have to get the pad.
Click to expand...

Me too. I made the Q I'm playing with, 6 years ago. It has an 1 1/4" Ivory ferrule, WITH a pad & I break with it about 1/2 of the time. I've tryed 5-6 different tips on this ferrule, but it still has the original pad (which is getting pretty thin) & the ferrule is still like new...JER
 
Tommy-D

Tommy-D

World's best B player...
Silver Member
> From a durability stance,the pad is probably the best way to go,especially if you are not equipped to maintain them yourself. On the other hand,I've come to perhaps a misguided conclusion that says 99% of all pool players are incapable of breaking an ivory ferrule playing pool with it,unless you are an absolute monster breaker. I've got a 15 yr old Schon shaft with ivory,and it still hasn't cracked yet. In my experience,weather changes and particularly exposure to cold air will crack it a LOT quicker than breaking or jumping. You also do not want to let an ivory ferruled shaft sit up in a case for months on end,take it out and rub a little wax on it,or some other kind of conditioner,they will dry out and check. I've even heard of people dabbing baby oil on it at a cuemaker's recommendation. As far as playability goes,I feel that with my cue the feel is a lot crisper and imparts better feel with my stroke and the packed down Sumo tips I use. I'm not going to say that the pads kill the feel for everyone,but the hit isn't as sharp to me. I've installed 2 ivory ferrules for the same customer,both padded,and both times he asked me to cut it off,he liked the feel better without the pad. Hope this helps,Tommy D.
 
Arnot Wadsworth

Arnot Wadsworth

Senior Cuemaker
Silver Member
Jigger said:
Will soon be replacing the tip on my ivory ferrule. Probably will use a Morri M or an Everest. I'm normally not an overly hard hitter and use a seperate break cue.

Do you recommend a tip pad between the ferrule and tip? Why? Is it needed to reduce the chance of cracking the ivory ferrule? Will a pad significantly change the "Hit"?

Thanks for your thoughts. ;)
Click to expand...
I have not installed a pad on an ivory ferrule in years. I think the best way to insure that the ferrule is protected is to make sure that you don't let the tip get down too far. I know the cues play better when they wear down some but the purpose of a tip and ferrule for that matter is to protect the shaft from shock. When tips get thinner they get harder and when they wear down too much there is no or little cushion and the ferrule can easily be damaged whether it be ivory or other material.:)
 
Jigger

Jigger

Lets Roll....(...(..(.(O
Silver Member
Thanks very much for your thoughts Cubswin, Jer, Mike, Arnot Tommy, Koop and Steve. Will give the pads a try. ;-)
 
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K

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Jigger said:
Thanks very much for your thoughts Cubswin, Jer, Mike, Arnot and Steve. Will give the pads a try. ;-)
Click to expand...

Just as a side note, I like the pads whether or not it's an ivory ferrule.

As with Mike and Jerry, I know that Joel Hercek also uses the pads with his ivory ferrules.

Regards,
Koop
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Arnot Wadsworth said:
What purpose does it serve?
Click to expand...

Added feature for protecting the ivory, that is not to say the ivory will crack without it because it may not, But it will help reduce the added deflection you get with ivory ferrules. Some agree with this philosophy and some don't, everyone is right is building and playing with what they beleive in.
 
buddha162

buddha162

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Arnot Wadsworth said:
What purpose does it serve?
Click to expand...

It keeps the ivory from spreading with a mushrooming tip. Fiber pads will not move at all, and will prevent this kind of cracking in ivory ferrules.

-Roger
 
Sheldon

Sheldon

dontneednostinkintitle
Silver Member
buddha162 said:
It keeps the ivory from spreading with a mushrooming tip. Fiber pads will not move at all, and will prevent this kind of cracking in ivory ferrules.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much the only logical reason I have seen for them...
But I suppose you could argue that it makes your cue a bit longer too. :D
If you use a hard layered tip, the pad would probably be overkill... but a soft tip like an elkmaster might justify using a pad.
Or maybe you just like the damn things, it certainly won't hurt anything to have one. :)
 
R

rhncue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sheldon said:
That's pretty much the only logical reason I have seen for them...
But I suppose you could argue that it makes your cue a bit longer too. :D
If you use a hard layered tip, the pad would probably be overkill... but a soft tip like an elkmaster might justify using a pad.
Or maybe you just like the damn things, it certainly won't hurt anything to have one. :)
Click to expand...

This issue of pads on ivory, like so many other things in cue making, are just preferences of the cue-maker or cue owner. I don't think there is solid proof of a pad helping or hurting on an ivory ferruled cue.

I, myself, always use a thick pad (.061) on an ivory ferrule for a couple of reasons being: 1 - It cushions the tip a little on contact with the ball and I believe ivory needs all the help it can get to keep from cracking. 2 - when changing a tip this pad can be faced rather than the ivory itself.

Now there are drawbacks to a pad also. 1 - being it gives a slightly softer hit affecting the feel of the tip. 2 - being another flatfaced glue area that may fail in the middle of a game.

To each their own in my opinion.

Dick
 
M

Mase

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sheldon said:
That's pretty much the only logical reason I have seen for them...
But I suppose you could argue that it makes your cue a bit longer too. :D
If you use a hard layered tip, the pad would probably be overkill... but a soft tip like an elkmaster might justify using a pad.
Or maybe you just like the damn things, it certainly won't hurt anything to have one. :)
Click to expand...

How about to ensure that the ferrule lasts longer. I have had customers that require a new tip every couple months. The one player has a nervous habit of chalking his cue continually. He grinds the tip away with the chalk.

When I face a ferrule, I ensure that I take as little material as possible from it but I do take some material. In cases were I replace tips constantly I suggest they use a pad.
 
C

Chris' Cues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That makes sense if a player changes tips every couple of months, but most players don't. I guess I look at it differant. They started using pads when the tips available mushroomed badly. The new layered tips don't do that. The only thing to wach is not let the tip get so worn down that you might actually hit the ferrule if miscued.
I don't put pads on anything unless a customer request them, and all new cues come with a good Talisman layered tip. Most of my cues use the IVOR-X ferrules but some off the higher end cues with a lot of Ivory will also get Ivory ferrules. Most people that have cues with Ivory ferrules don't let them get worn down so far that it becomes dangerous.
Chris
 
puckdaddy

puckdaddy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ive tried it both ways (pad and no pad) and found it realatively the same. I like a short tip (about 1/16) so to be on the safe side I opt of the pad. On one shaft without a pad I watch it real close and make sure it doesnt get too close but that goes against my tip preference.
 
A

Alivallo

New member
Arnot Wadsworth said:
What purpose does it serve?
Click to expand...

PADS are for the GLUE, so it does not absorb into the tip making it harder.
it also allows for you to pop off the tip with a razor and use it later.

:boring2: The Glue will decide if the pad will dampen the feel of the hit.
pads will also reduce that 'cling' noise you get on fiberglass sticks.

Nowadays tips are laminated, so it does now matter what their made of; Pig, Cow, Paper, Cotton, etc... its the laminate epoxy that gives it the hardness.
why they don't just make full epoxy tips? That Doesn't SELL! also some leagues had rules when fools were using diamond dusted tips and wearing/chipping balls.

Layers will also effect the 'feel' more layers will hit slightly softer; it will also give it more 'end tip mass'; but I see no science that says how much end tip mass is needed to produce a performance difference. (or in your case how many layers will effect Your tip/ferrule performance.

The sad part is that companies do not post testing results (IF THEY EVEN DO TESTING)
You may find its just marketing, for example, the Cyborg tip is no better then the $3 laminated pig skin from ebay. It is exactly the same material and laminate; with 3 more layers for $22.

Dr. Dave has published some papers from students work proving some of this among other things but you have to dig deep to find it. He also published students work proving name brand chalk to be facetious. Among other things like Irish linen wrap.

a combo of medium laminate and low profile is what I find best. some may go with medium-hard and more layers,
 
Michael Webb

Michael Webb

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Alivallo said:
PADS are for the GLUE, so it does not absorb into the tip making it harder.
it also allows for you to pop off the tip with a razor and use it later.

:boring2: The Glue will decide if the pad will dampen the feel of the hit.
pads will also reduce that 'cling' noise you get on fiberglass sticks.

Nowadays tips are laminated, so it does now matter what their made of; Pig, Cow, Paper, Cotton, etc... its the laminate epoxy that gives it the hardness.
why they don't just make full epoxy tips? That Doesn't SELL! also some leagues had rules when fools were using diamond dusted tips and wearing/chipping balls.

Layers will also effect the 'feel' more layers will hit slightly softer; it will also give it more 'end tip mass'; but I see no science that says how much end tip mass is needed to produce a performance difference. (or in your case how many layers will effect Your tip/ferrule performance.

The sad part is that companies do not post testing results (IF THEY EVEN DO TESTING)
You may find its just marketing, for example, the Cyborg tip is no better then the $3 laminated pig skin from ebay. It is exactly the same material and laminate; with 3 more layers for $22.

Dr. Dave has published some papers from students work proving some of this among other things but you have to dig deep to find it. He also published students work proving name brand chalk to be facetious. Among other things like Irish linen wrap.

a combo of medium laminate and low profile is what I find best. some may go with medium-hard and more layers,
Click to expand...


I'm anxious to hear more of your logic. Do you play pool?
 
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