Getting rid of my ld's for good

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
A couple of years ago I switched from Predator to Mezz shafts and my game instantly improved, not sublty either, I had been playing with Predator shafts from the beginning, the Z since it was lauched. I got lots of comments from people that had known me for years, wondering what I'd done to improve so suddenly. Not as if I was a terrible player either, so it's pretty rare to see such instant improvements. Now I'm considering switching to solid hard maple or ash for good as it seems that improves my game even more.

I no longer miss the long, tough shots as often. I get better cueball control in terms of speed, I get more power in my shots, though maybe a bit less draw (not conclusively). Definitely more powerful follow!

I've started to wonder wether hollowing a shaft out has some sort of negative effect on accuracy. It's really weird, since I use a long bridge on my shots anyway, so in theory the ld shafts should give me more accuracy on center ball shots, but it just isnt happening. I wish there was a way to test this more scientifically. Anecdotally, for me, the tests are conclusive. I've always tested my stroke for straightness the traditional way, long kissbacks etc, and there doesn't seem to be anything at all wrong with my stroke, in fact all the tests showed me it was good.

I did a 100 shot, shotmaking test comparison (all super tough ones), 10 of each kind and the scores were OVERWHELMING in favour of hard maple. I should point out that the difference only shows when I put a little bit of power into the shot. Rolling it, it's hard to tell a difference. I even did different hard maple shafts against different Predators as well, and they all performed better for me than Predator shafts, though some were better than others. I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why that is and it's extremely perplexing since I was way more familiar with the Predators and they should have a huge advantage from that alone! Mind you, all those shots were vertical center ball shot with a bit of pace. Similar results for TOI, btw, which is even weirder.
 
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DaveInSC

Banger
You may just be subconsciously adjusting for the deflection of a normal shaft. Sure not a thing wrong with that. Shoot with what you shoot best with!
 

pocketsplitter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you didn't do a stroke test I would say the fault lied with the Z, which is the most unforgiving shaft ever made...


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
I did a 100 shot, shotmaking test comparison (all super tough ones), 10 of each kind and the scores were OVERWHELMING in favour of hard maple. I should point out that the difference only shows when I put a little bit of power into the shot. Rolling it, it's hard to tell a difference. I even did different hard maple shafts against different Predators as well, and they all performed better for me than Predator shafts, though some were better than others. I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why that is and it's extremely perplexing since I was way more familiar with the Predators and they should have a huge advantage from that alone! Mind you, all those shots were vertical center ball shot with a bit of pace. Similar results for TOI, btw, which is even weirder.

I did the same sort of tests and got the opposite result.

One thing's for sure, you should play with the shaft you like best.
 

WildWing

Super Gun Mod
Silver Member
You do realize that Mezz is a low deflection (LD) shaft as well, don't you?

All the best,
WW
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Predator vs....

You picked the wrong LD for you that's all. I can't make a ball with a Z3.I recently picked a Jacoby Hybrid its very different from most LD's. It is super dependable.

You will likely notice the same difference in maple depending on the stiffness of the shaft.



A couple of years ago I switched from Predator to Mezz shafts and my game instantly improved, not sublty either, I had been playing with Predator shafts from the beginning, the Z since it was lauched. I got lots of comments from people that had known me for years, wondering what I'd done to improve so suddenly. Not as if I was a terrible player either, so it's pretty rare to see such instant improvements. Now I'm considering switching to solid hard maple or ash for good as it seems that improves my game even more.

I no longer miss the long, tough shots as often. I get better cueball control in terms of speed, I get more power in my shots, though maybe a bit less draw (not conclusively). Definitely more powerful follow!

I've started to wonder wether hollowing a shaft out has some sort of negative effect on accuracy. It's really weird, since I use a long bridge on my shots anyway, so in theory the ld shafts should give me more accuracy on center ball shots, but it just isnt happening. I wish there was a way to test this more scientifically. Anecdotally, for me, the tests are conclusive. I've always tested my stroke for straightness the traditional way, long kissbacks etc, and there doesn't seem to be anything at all wrong with my stroke, in fact all the tests showed me it was good.

I did a 100 shot, shotmaking test comparison (all super tough ones), 10 of each kind and the scores were OVERWHELMING in favour of hard maple. I should point out that the difference only shows when I put a little bit of power into the shot. Rolling it, it's hard to tell a difference. I even did different hard maple shafts against different Predators as well, and they all performed better for me than Predator shafts, though some were better than others. I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why that is and it's extremely perplexing since I was way more familiar with the Predators and they should have a huge advantage from that alone! Mind you, all those shots were vertical center ball shot with a bit of pace. Similar results for TOI, btw, which is even weirder.
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A couple of years ago I switched from Predator to Mezz shafts and my game instantly improved, not sublty either, I had been playing with Predator shafts from the beginning, the Z since it was lauched. I got lots of comments from people that had known me for years, wondering what I'd done to improve so suddenly. Not as if I was a terrible player either, so it's pretty rare to see such instant improvements. Now I'm considering switching to solid hard maple or ash for good as it seems that improves my game even more.

I no longer miss the long, tough shots as often. I get better cueball control in terms of speed, I get more power in my shots, though maybe a bit less draw (not conclusively). Definitely more powerful follow!

I've started to wonder wether hollowing a shaft out has some sort of negative effect on accuracy. It's really weird, since I use a long bridge on my shots anyway, so in theory the ld shafts should give me more accuracy on center ball shots, but it just isnt happening. I wish there was a way to test this more scientifically. Anecdotally, for me, the tests are conclusive. I've always tested my stroke for straightness the traditional way, long kissbacks etc, and there doesn't seem to be anything at all wrong with my stroke, in fact all the tests showed me it was good.

I did a 100 shot, shotmaking test comparison (all super tough ones), 10 of each kind and the scores were OVERWHELMING in favour of hard maple. I should point out that the difference only shows when I put a little bit of power into the shot. Rolling it, it's hard to tell a difference. I even did different hard maple shafts against different Predators as well, and they all performed better for me than Predator shafts, though some were better than others. I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why that is and it's extremely perplexing since I was way more familiar with the Predators and they should have a huge advantage from that alone! Mind you, all those shots were vertical center ball shot with a bit of pace. Similar results for TOI, btw, which is even weirder.
Not sure i get what you're saying. You say ALL shots were with a center(hi,low,middle) axis cue-ball, right? If that's the case then it looks like you may prefer solid maple's feel over LD but if you're NOT spinning it how could accuracy be different? You're stroke may not be as straight as you think.
 

john coloccia

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You might want to consider that your bridge length is well suited to the deflection a normal shaft gives you, which will automatically correct for hits which are slightly off center.

Everything is a trade off. I can't play with an LD shaft. I've tried, and I'm a disaster. I think I'd get better over time, but a normal shaft just feels right and natural for me. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't think LD is right for everyone. In fact, I don't even see it as LD vs not LD. Every shaft will have some sort of deflection to it...some lower, some higher. Every tip has a different hit...some softer, some harder. Every weight/grip/balance point will feel different. I just play what feels right for me and I don't worry about what the industry has decided to label it.
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Not sure i get what you're saying. You say ALL shots were with a center(hi,low,middle) axis cue-ball, right? If that's the case then it looks like you may prefer solid maple's feel over LD but if you're NOT spinning it how could accuracy be different? You're stroke may not be as straight as you think.

Maybe. None of it makes any sense to me, it seems to be completely against all common knowledge, but the results are what they are.
 

Tooler

AhSheetMaDruars
Silver Member
You might want to consider that your bridge length is well suited to the deflection a normal shaft gives you, which will automatically correct for hits which are slightly off center./QUOTE]


^^^^^^^^^^ this is it ^^^^^^^^^^
 

Koop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You picked the wrong LD for you that's all. I can't make a ball with a Z3.I recently picked a Jacoby Hybrid its very different from most LD's. It is super dependable.

You will likely notice the same difference in maple depending on the stiffness of the shaft.

Have I read that the Jacoby Hybrid is the same as the old Universal the Bill Stroud came up with? I play with a Universal Smart Shaft so that would be useful info for me in case I needed a new one.

Thanks!
 

dardusm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A couple of years ago I switched from Predator to Mezz shafts and my game instantly improved, not sublty either, I had been playing with Predator shafts from the beginning, the Z since it was lauched. I got lots of comments from people that had known me for years, wondering what I'd done to improve so suddenly. Not as if I was a terrible player either, so it's pretty rare to see such instant improvements. Now I'm considering switching to solid hard maple or ash for good as it seems that improves my game even more.

I no longer miss the long, tough shots as often. I get better cueball control in terms of speed, I get more power in my shots, though maybe a bit less draw (not conclusively). Definitely more powerful follow!

I've started to wonder wether hollowing a shaft out has some sort of negative effect on accuracy. It's really weird, since I use a long bridge on my shots anyway, so in theory the ld shafts should give me more accuracy on center ball shots, but it just isnt happening. I wish there was a way to test this more scientifically. Anecdotally, for me, the tests are conclusive. I've always tested my stroke for straightness the traditional way, long kissbacks etc, and there doesn't seem to be anything at all wrong with my stroke, in fact all the tests showed me it was good.

I did a 100 shot, shotmaking test comparison (all super tough ones), 10 of each kind and the scores were OVERWHELMING in favour of hard maple. I should point out that the difference only shows when I put a little bit of power into the shot. Rolling it, it's hard to tell a difference. I even did different hard maple shafts against different Predators as well, and they all performed better for me than Predator shafts, though some were better than others. I have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why that is and it's extremely perplexing since I was way more familiar with the Predators and they should have a huge advantage from that alone! Mind you, all those shots were vertical center ball shot with a bit of pace. Similar results for TOI, btw, which is even weirder.

I don't claim to be a scientist but did have a few courses of statistics in college. Your sample may not be big enough to make a conclusive decision. 10 shots of each one isn't a big sample. There could be a placebo effect consideration. You might subconsciously have biased the sample for a few shots (just guessing). But, as other said, if you play better with a standard maple shaft then play with one no matter the reason. I'm not sure why it labeled it unhappy.
 
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hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have had similar results with players I have worked with on their game when they tried my LD shafts. Since they were compensating a bit for deflection with their stroke without knowing it and many also would compensate for not hitting the ball center, once they shot with an LD shaft, the deflection they were used to being there to help their aiming was no longer there and the cueball was sent on a straighter path, causing a miss. I have seen this with my son also when he tried some very low deflection shafts, he would be over-cutting shots by an inch with and OB Pro with the 11.75 tip, when he went to a 12.75mm OB One, he was able to make the shots a lot better.
 

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
I have had similar results with players I have worked with on their game when they tried my LD shafts. Since they were compensating a bit for deflection with their stroke without knowing it and many also would compensate for not hitting the ball center, once they shot with an LD shaft, the deflection they were used to being there to help their aiming was no longer there and the cueball was sent on a straighter path, causing a miss. I have seen this with my son also when he tried some very low deflection shafts, he would be over-cutting shots by an inch with and OB Pro with the 11.75 tip, when he went to a 12.75mm OB One, he was able to make the shots a lot better.

Yeah, tried to move from an OB 11.75 up to a 12.75 OB shaft once, just once. Big mistake for me. Man, that felt like a tree stump to me, the cb flying where every where, I mean, it was only a little more "squirt" but a little more on a long shot is really a "lot".

Sold that shaft right quick and ended that little experiment.
 
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QuietStorm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You never mentioned which Mezz shaft. The diameter of the shaft could have also played a big role in your accuracy. Needless to say, the Z shaft is <12mm and requires a higher degree of accuracy. I'm assuming your Mezz has a thicker diameter tip.

Ironically, the more solid maple shaft could have also played a role in improving your accuracy, even though it has higher deflection. I play better with the more solid maple shafts, because I can "feel" the hit better. It gives me better feedback, compared to the 314-3 I used for some time. There's a stark contrast in sound and feel when hitting center vs english, and I feel it more when using a solid maple shaft. When I played with my 314-3, this "sound and feel" was dampened and dull.

The more quiet hit suits some people's playing style. I personally need more feedback on the hit. Just a matter of preference.
 
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