What do most instructors say about the speed of the warm up strokes? Do you think they should be at the same speed as the stoke you intend to hit the cue ball? If you are going to hit the cue ball with a soft stroke should you use a slow speed on the warm up strokes? If you intend to hit a power shot such as a long draw shot should you use fast warm up strokes?
Warm up strokes
- Thread starter kaznj
- Start date
Remember, you can't really rehearse the stroke because you would have to follow through, and you can't do that when you're set up behind the cue ball.
Your warmup strokes are to help you calibrate yourself in getting ready to shoot. Players calibrate in different ways. For example, you may notice that a lot of top players will start with some quick strokes and then gradually slow down their practice strokes as they get closer to the final execution stroke.
Ridiculous! Of course you can "rehearse" the actual stroke. You just have to set up on an imaginary CB right next to the real one.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Joel...You already know this. Fast warmups do not equate to a fast strike on the CB. Everyone has their own kind of warmups. The key thing is to do the same routine every time, and to stop at the CB before you stroke through it.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
I agree with Ms. Crimi.
One can not actually 'rehearse' the actual stroke to be made.
You will almost never see a golf pro making a 110 mph swing without actually hitting the ball.
The golfer makes a much more slow swing just to get a feel for the clubhead & the positioning of the club relative to their body during a swing.
And a baseball hitter's pre hit swing is never the same as the actual swing that he will make on a pitched ball.
Can you imagine an orchestra 'rehearsing' without playing the actual musical notes or a singer 'rehearsing' without singing the words or a Broadway actor or actress 'rehearsing' without saying the words or actually moving how & to where they need to be on the stage or a dancer 'rehearsing' without actually doing the dance steps.
You can do as Scott Lee said... but it is not any kind of actual 'rehearsal' when there is no actual ball that will be hit to provide any resistance.
It might be more like a visualization technique that golfers do, but I do not really see how it would be beneficial to just make a stroke without also visualizing the ball going to the OB & the OB going into the pocket & the Cue Ball going where you intend.
Also, I do not think too many opponents would like the extra time that it would take to set up to an imaginary ball for each & every shot. That would basically double your time at the table even if you only pocket 3 or 4 balls.
I think they might look at it as a form of sharking by keeping them in the chair twice as long as should be for your results.
Anyway,
Just food for thought.
All Best Wishes for You & Yours & ALL,
Rick
PS I am not a paper carrying instructor. So, take what I have said here however you will.
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I use warm up strokes on my cue before I ever get down to shoot the ball. I don't play "air cue", but I figure out my bridge length and how much "pressure" I'm going to use on my grip (both in my bridge and my grip on the handle) during the shot as I'm shooting it in my mind. When I lean into the table, I already have my cue positioned and am ready to go.
ENGLISH, you actually can do "rehearsal" strokes like Scott said and it doesn't take up much time. Doing that will let you see how far your bridge will follow through after you hit the cue ball (unless you pull up on the shot after striking the cue ball...some people have a tendency to do that).
The warm up strokes also give me an idea if the cue is going to slide through my closed bridge without binding. If it feels a bit tacky, I'll wipe my hands and cue and may do a dab of powder (yes, I like powder).
I use faster warm up strokes on some shots than I do on others. It all depends upon how I'm hitting the balls on that day.
There is really no "correct" way to do it. Each person sets their own routine and should do what makes them feel comfortable and confident. You shouldn't be shooting the shot if you aren't comfortable and confident. If that is the case, you should stand up and regroup and start over again.
ENGLISH, you actually can do "rehearsal" strokes like Scott said and it doesn't take up much time. Doing that will let you see how far your bridge will follow through after you hit the cue ball (unless you pull up on the shot after striking the cue ball...some people have a tendency to do that).
The warm up strokes also give me an idea if the cue is going to slide through my closed bridge without binding. If it feels a bit tacky, I'll wipe my hands and cue and may do a dab of powder (yes, I like powder).
I use faster warm up strokes on some shots than I do on others. It all depends upon how I'm hitting the balls on that day.
There is really no "correct" way to do it. Each person sets their own routine and should do what makes them feel comfortable and confident. You shouldn't be shooting the shot if you aren't comfortable and confident. If that is the case, you should stand up and regroup and start over again.
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I did not say that you can not do what Scott Lee said, but you can not really "rehearse" the shot in any true sense of the word.
You can plan for it & you can visualize it & you can check components of it to some extent, but without actually hitting a ball you can not really "rehearse" the shot.
It takes more effort to get the same follow through when actually hitting a ball then just stroking through air. The cue will actually stop for a fraction of a millisecond when actually hitting a ball & you can not "rehearse" that resistance when stroking through air.
We may be quibbling over the use of a word, but since Scott Lee contradicted what Fran Crimi said, I think the difference is important & significant.
What Fran Crimi said is correct & Scott Les's contradiction of her & his example is not a true "rehearsal" of an actual shot.
As I said, you can do the things that you said & what I mentioned earlier or what Scott Lee said, but those are not a true dress rehearsal & you can not do one without hitting a real ball that does not count.
When Fran Crimi replied she was responding to the the scenario that the OP laid out. Scott Lee may as well have said, yes you can "rehearse" the shot. You can go to another table & hit a ball 2 or 3 times as you intend to hit the real shot & then come back & actually hit the real shot. There are usually rules against that type of activity,
All Best Wishes for ALL.
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Don't include me in that statement. From everything on here, it seems that you are always the "quibbler". Nobody else seems to go to the extremes you do in the quibbling.
Not EVERYTHING on here is LITERAL. People need to be able to read between the lines. When I write something, I expect the AVERAGE idiot and I've me thousands upon thousands of them in the pool hall would understand it. Nobody should have to write manuscripts to explain things in that minute of a detail to people.
Do you notice that NOBODY quibbles 99% of the things that you do?
I don't give a damn what Fran says and it is nothing against her. I also don't care what any other instructor says on here just because they SAID it. I've played pool for more than 50 years and know just because somebody says something it doesn't always apply to everybody and mean it is the gospel.
You need to give people a "foundation" on which they can build a game. You can't hit every ball for them and determine "feel" for them or "control" what is in their mind while they are shooting. They will have to put in the table time to figure it out...NOT SPEND ALL DAY ON HERE QUIBBLING.
All we have with which to attempt to communicate is words.
If one misuses words there is rather little chance of any true & real communication.
When Fran Crimi says, "Remember, you can't really rehearse the stroke because you would have to follow through, and you can't do that when you're set up behind the cue ball."
AND...
Scott Lee says. "Ridiculous! Of course you can "rehearse" the actual stroke. You just have to set up on an imaginary CB right next to the real one."
Whose doing the 'quibbling'?
The OP & Fran Crimi were talking about pre shot stroking at the REAL cue ball...
And Scott Lee goes into one of his contrivances & uses the word "rehearse" in what is a technically incorrect manner, IMO, while calling what Fran Crimi said "Ridiculous".
Then you said that one can do what Scott Lee said, which is that one can "rehearse" the shot.
So in essence, you too were saying that what Fran Crimi said was ridiculous.
All the while she is correct in what she said & especially in the context in which she said it.
So the "Ridiculous" remark was completely uncalled for & I think it was obvious why he made it.
ALL Best Wishes for You & Yours & ALL.
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Ummmm.... I'm pretty sure he was referring to when he's down addressing the shot.
Speed of warm up strokes don't need to match the speed of the shot. I would advise slower, because I think people with really fast warm up strokes tend to be more jerky. The important thing is that your final backswing is controlled and smooth, and the cue's final forward motion starts slow and accelerates to reach it's maximum speed upon impact with the CB.
i was talking about when i am down at the cue ball. i am getting ready to make the shot not going off to another table not stroking next to the cue ball not on the rail. i am in position. i have aimed i know where i want to make cue hit the cue ball.
charlie williams used to take a large number of very fast warm up strokes. He looked like he was trying to take flight. if he had a little more speed i think he could have gone airborne. he is now in more control.
charlie williams used to take a large number of very fast warm up strokes. He looked like he was trying to take flight. if he had a little more speed i think he could have gone airborne. he is now in more control.
Fran is correct.
Fran is correct. You neglected to read the last clause of her sentence.
Fran is correct. You neglected to read the last clause of her sentence.
The primary purpose of warm up strokes is to make sure your cue is moving straight, and to verify where the tip is going to make contact. I recommend slow and controlled warm ups to accomplish these goals. You can get a feel for your stroke speed before you even get down on the shot.
Steve
Steve
Donny...I agree with the last part of Fran's post. I disagree that you cannot "rehearse" the intended stroke (oh, and Rick, Fran first used the word 'rehearse', not me). You can check swing speed, grip pressure, and range of motion, all prior to the actual stroke to strike the CB. Different instructors teach different things, different ways. You and I will have to agree to disagree. 
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Well, it seems logical that you would want the warm up stroke to be at the same speed that you are going to shoot the shot. I do realize, however, that it would be difficult for the warm up strokes to be like the actual stroke if you are needing to hit the shot harder.
But, using you guys Mother Drill for speed, if the shot is going to be a 1-4 speed why wouldn't you want the warm up stroke at the same speed (1-4) that you intend to hit the shot?
r/Mike
Like Randy said, the biggest reason for warm up stroke is to calibrate your aim on the CB. Not needed for speed in the slightest. In fact, warm up strokes technically aren't needed at all. I would never advise against not using them, but it is possible to run balls without any warm up strokes.
I went to no pre shot strokes when I was experimenting or confirming many of the things that CJ Wiley said when he was here & I have stayed with it even when using my stroke of nearly 50 years.
There is absolutely no "need" for any pre shot strokes.
That said, one is certainly at liberty & at will to do what ever they like & seems to help them...
other than to actually "rehearse" the shot by actually hitting a ball as there are usually rules regarding what they usually call 'practicing'.
All Best Wishes for ALL.
There is absolutely no "need" for any pre shot strokes.
That said, one is certainly at liberty & at will to do what ever they like & seems to help them...
other than to actually "rehearse" the shot by actually hitting a ball as there are usually rules regarding what they usually call 'practicing'.
All Best Wishes for ALL.
