Digicue Blue
- Thread starter tableroll
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It looks like it is possible that your global text size has been increased? Please check this.
However, I agree that we should add a maximum text size check in the app. We have generated a ticket for this.
You were right. I decreased my text size and I now can read my average. Thank you! I am posting my averages from this morning. As you can see I have a long way to go. I have it on the pro mode so my scores have dropped
I took 51 shots and following are the averages.
Finish: 2.0 seconds
Straightness: 6.8
Tip steer left: 8.0
Tip steer right: 9.1
Follow through: 6.4
Jab: 9.6
Backstroke Pause: 0.6 seconds
Last edited:
Those scores are looking really good to me. Do an experiment for me and, instead of thinking about your stroke, think about the feeling of pushing the shaft-butt joint into your bridge hand, and see if your scores increase a small amount (even by 0.25 average). If not, go back to what you were doing before.
How Many Shots Were Pocketed & How Many Missed?
Unless you do the same shot 51 times, and kept track of your average so it could be mapped and compared against the categories for improvement, one might mistakenly be lulled into a search for the proverbial "Golden Fleece" in pool pursuing the perfect stroke. Let’s face it. One will never achieve a perfect stroke and maintain it. Like Ben Hogan said about competitive golf, it's making the most of your worst shots. The good shots are already working but those other swings, well, that's what derails you. One does not need a perfect stroke to pocket balls. That's why the pockets are a lot wider than the ball's diameter but admittedly a pool stroke with flaws is not going to help you run the table.
Statistical data attains maximum value when it's applied against other data. Until you know the exact number of object balls missed or pocketed, an important piece of data is missing. Let's use the OP's stats and look at it this way. Say he shot the exact same shot 51 times, instead of a variety of different shots. If he pockets45, 46, 47 balls, he could try to figure out which category contributed to missing. Was it several different categories or maybe just one? But it’s important to know the shot outcome.
Now let's say he only pockets 34, 34, 36 balls, or perhaps even a few less. The player needs to look at which categories are contributing to missing the shot. Without knowing the outcome of the pool strokes, the data being derived although interesting is still incomplete. In other words, if a player took 51 strokes to run 3 racks (45 balls) versus running 2 racks (30 balls), the data would have increased significance.
In my opinion, to look for the perfect stroke & I'm not suggesting or implying anyone that's replied so far on this thread was, is essentially a fool's errand. The goal should be to eliminate flaws and achieve accurate control over the velocity of your pool stroke. Accuracy comes from practice and perfect accuracy isn't necessary to pocket balls but poor accuracy will surely kill you. How many times does an object ball drop dead center into the pocket versus dropping because you aimed and hit it correctly with the right object ball speed? And did you intend to touch the rail lightly just before on the corner pocket's long rail or were you truly aiming dead center when pocketing that last object ball? And does it even matter? And I'm not referring to slop shots vs. object balls struck with the right speed that are made.
I think Digicue is a revolutionary tool and provides meaningful feedback for novice, beginner and even intermediate players. However, I also think that a stronger, advanced player is less concerned about their stroke until they start missing. And then it becomes all the more helpful to know how many shots (strokes) analyzed by Gigicue were successful versus missed. I was part of the initial Az field test of the original Digicue and what I found out when I took it to Blue Fin Billiards is this. The device was set to its highest sensitivity & a half dozen top players tested it. Digicue activated most of the time even when someone was running the table. One player ran 3 racks of 9 ball and when I asked him how many times it went off, he replied "I think on every shot; isn't it supposed to do that to let you know you hit it right?"
When I told him he got it reversed, he changed his tune and said "Shit, I must suck because I think it went off on every shot." which is hardly the case as he is a really strong pool player. He said it was easier for him to recall the shots when it didn’t activate versus when it did. After a few minutes he estimated Digicue did not activate on maybe 5-6 of the balls he had just pocketed. I look forward to seeing how Digicue continues to evolve as a product but I still think it works best when you use it with a training partner.
Matt B.
Unless you do the same shot 51 times, and kept track of your average so it could be mapped and compared against the categories for improvement, one might mistakenly be lulled into a search for the proverbial "Golden Fleece" in pool pursuing the perfect stroke. Let’s face it. One will never achieve a perfect stroke and maintain it. Like Ben Hogan said about competitive golf, it's making the most of your worst shots. The good shots are already working but those other swings, well, that's what derails you. One does not need a perfect stroke to pocket balls. That's why the pockets are a lot wider than the ball's diameter but admittedly a pool stroke with flaws is not going to help you run the table.
Statistical data attains maximum value when it's applied against other data. Until you know the exact number of object balls missed or pocketed, an important piece of data is missing. Let's use the OP's stats and look at it this way. Say he shot the exact same shot 51 times, instead of a variety of different shots. If he pockets45, 46, 47 balls, he could try to figure out which category contributed to missing. Was it several different categories or maybe just one? But it’s important to know the shot outcome.
Now let's say he only pockets 34, 34, 36 balls, or perhaps even a few less. The player needs to look at which categories are contributing to missing the shot. Without knowing the outcome of the pool strokes, the data being derived although interesting is still incomplete. In other words, if a player took 51 strokes to run 3 racks (45 balls) versus running 2 racks (30 balls), the data would have increased significance.
In my opinion, to look for the perfect stroke & I'm not suggesting or implying anyone that's replied so far on this thread was, is essentially a fool's errand. The goal should be to eliminate flaws and achieve accurate control over the velocity of your pool stroke. Accuracy comes from practice and perfect accuracy isn't necessary to pocket balls but poor accuracy will surely kill you. How many times does an object ball drop dead center into the pocket versus dropping because you aimed and hit it correctly with the right object ball speed? And did you intend to touch the rail lightly just before on the corner pocket's long rail or were you truly aiming dead center when pocketing that last object ball? And does it even matter? And I'm not referring to slop shots vs. object balls struck with the right speed that are made.
I think Digicue is a revolutionary tool and provides meaningful feedback for novice, beginner and even intermediate players. However, I also think that a stronger, advanced player is less concerned about their stroke until they start missing. And then it becomes all the more helpful to know how many shots (strokes) analyzed by Gigicue were successful versus missed. I was part of the initial Az field test of the original Digicue and what I found out when I took it to Blue Fin Billiards is this. The device was set to its highest sensitivity & a half dozen top players tested it. Digicue activated most of the time even when someone was running the table. One player ran 3 racks of 9 ball and when I asked him how many times it went off, he replied "I think on every shot; isn't it supposed to do that to let you know you hit it right?"
When I told him he got it reversed, he changed his tune and said "Shit, I must suck because I think it went off on every shot." which is hardly the case as he is a really strong pool player. He said it was easier for him to recall the shots when it didn’t activate versus when it did. After a few minutes he estimated Digicue did not activate on maybe 5-6 of the balls he had just pocketed. I look forward to seeing how Digicue continues to evolve as a product but I still think it works best when you use it with a training partner.
Matt B.
I'm thinking I'd like to get a DigiCue BLUE to you to test compared to the original. The expanded functionality of this new version bridges the gap between a binary outcome and something that can be interpreted organically. The original had no way of transmitting values and thus, I was forced to consolidate a highly-variable motion (stroke) into threshold bins, which were naturally generalized as either good (no buzz) or bad (buzz). The underlying idea behind the original DigiCue was still statistical in which one should keep track of their own average, and I still think it is a great product that leverages intrinsic learning... but the app interface is something that players immediately see value in.
The DigiCue BLUE contains the same functionality as the original, in which you can set a generalized beginner/intermediate/advanced level that "buzzes on bad". You can also back off the generalization and set the threshold to trigger on only one parameter (i.e. buzz only if I shoot too fast, or only if I don't stay down on my shot for at least a second... etc).
But I think the real benefit especially for advanced players is the ability to turn off vibrations completely, and let the DigiCue BLUE log your statistics silently over the course of time. (This is how I have been using it most often). In this case, there is no perfect stroke. It is a snapshot of your stroke, and you are allowed to have averages and variances wherever you want. You can choose which averages mean anything to you. I.e. if you don't care about freezing after your shot, ignore that parameter.. if your goal is to get rid of a tip steering habit you have, then just track that average for a while. Let the data help you the way you want it to.
In the example of your friend, let him run another 3 racks without vibrations in DigiCue BLUE data logger mode. If he is a fast player, he'll have a low score in Finish (if he doesn't stay down longer after his shot) but high scores in other areas. If he never cares about staying down, thats fine. If he thinks that staying down a little longer is something he wants to improve upon, then he now has a measurable way to make this improvement. If he wants the DigiCue BLUE to yell at him if he gets up too fast, he can do that too.
A good testimonial regarding advanced players is as follows (said before he was sponsored):
"As good as I am playing right now, every now and then my stroke gets a little out of line. We all have bad habits that surface from time to time so when I practice with the DigiCue it immediately alerts me with a vibration when my stroke is not where it needs to be. When most people think of training aids they think they are only for beginners but I really do believe that the DigiCue can benefit any player of any skill level."
- Jayson Shaw, #2 Ranked Pool Player in the World
V/r,
Nate
Nate, I have a question of the straightness parameter. Since there already is a left of center and a right of center "steer" parameter, and the radial movement diagonally, top, bottom, left and right are incorporated into the straightness parameter, how can one over get "straight" when a lot of top and bottom shots are used? Should there be a seperate parameter for center of vertical axis on follow and draw shots? What am I missing here?
Straightness will score high if you stroke the cue in a straight line in reference to the stroke line. It doesn't matter where you hit the CB. You can hit draw and still score high on Straightness, but you gotta stroke straight through the bottom of the cb and into the cloth.
If you just care about staying along the vertical axis, then ignore Straightness and try to score high on tip steer.
Thanks, I misinterpreted the digicue definition of straightness.
You are right, most know that one can not achieve and maintain the "perfect stroke". I did not purchase the digicue for that purpose. I want it to improve my stroke in straightness and steer. I think it is doing that although I know it takes time and effort. At this point it does not matter if I miss balls as long as my stroke techniques are good. If I miss it will be because of poor aim or setup. Once my techniques improve I think the dropping balls will take care of themselves.
koolkatt58
Registered
Need some Info on Digicue Blue
Nate:
I am a pretty good player I own the original Digicue. I leave it in intermediate mode because it keeps me honest. I notices it buzzes sometime because you have to leave your hands still after you strike the cue ball. Also whenever you elevate for a shot it will go off too.
My question is this new Digi Cue Blue what is your advice on a starting point when you first get it? Should you go to intermediate if your a pretty good player?
Also for me I would need to disable the back pause. I have seem posts where people complain about the straightness they can never get it green. I would think that is a important part of your stroke. Also is the app gonna be avaliable for Amazon tablets and IOS 9 I have an ipad mini I cannot get the app on it. It will not upgrade to IOS 10. I did recently purchased a new phone so I do have the app. Appreciate your info on these issues!!!!! The app sounds really good. Wish I could get it on all my devices.
Nate:
I am a pretty good player I own the original Digicue. I leave it in intermediate mode because it keeps me honest. I notices it buzzes sometime because you have to leave your hands still after you strike the cue ball. Also whenever you elevate for a shot it will go off too.
My question is this new Digi Cue Blue what is your advice on a starting point when you first get it? Should you go to intermediate if your a pretty good player?
Also for me I would need to disable the back pause. I have seem posts where people complain about the straightness they can never get it green. I would think that is a important part of your stroke. Also is the app gonna be avaliable for Amazon tablets and IOS 9 I have an ipad mini I cannot get the app on it. It will not upgrade to IOS 10. I did recently purchased a new phone so I do have the app. Appreciate your info on these issues!!!!! The app sounds really good. Wish I could get it on all my devices.
Intermediate is a good starting point, and it is what I use when playing pool. I now keep backstroke pause on 0.1s (lowest), but I used to turn it off. I also turn on shot interval to 8s and finesse to medium, because my worst habit is rushing and shooting too hard.
I also often turn everything on and all vibrations off, so that my mobile device turns into a silent data logger... and then at the end of the day I look at my averages. To be honest I probably use the DigiCue BLUE in this way more than with vibrations.
Straightness refers to how straight the cue moves during the forward stroke. If it is moving left/right OR up/down then you will get a low score. If you have a pendulum stroke and you are not making contact with the ball during the lowest arc point of the pendulum, you will get a low score because the DigiCue BLUE is seeing a vertical force applied to the cue due to the swing.
In other words, if your cue doesn't move in a perfect piston laser-beam line, I am calling it "not straight". I could have chosen a different word other than Straightness to describe this, like "Piston", but ended up going with "Straightness" at the advice of my test group.
Tip steer is ONLY a left/right measurement, and it ignores any up/down motion of the cue.
The DigiCue BLUE is more immune to triggering by elevating the cue to a degree.
I will look into your other questions shortly.
Nate
koolkatt58
Registered
Thank You
Thanks for your info. That is a good idea to turn off the vibration and see how you did. I have a pretty good stroke I always work on my fundamentals. The original DigiCue helped me to keep still and not jump up on my shots. I really have improved in that area. Also I pocket balls more consistently. As you get the older I am 59 now you really have to have good form and stroke. It feels good when you have younger players watching you play and that you could compete with them.
On the back stroke pause if it is 0.1 if you do not really have a noticeable pause will you get a lot of faults. I might pause but it is really not pronounced. I guess you have to experiment with it. Also I forgot to mention on the finish I read that people say it expects you to stay still too long so they turn it off. How do you have your finish setup?
Thanks again!!!!!
Thanks for your info. That is a good idea to turn off the vibration and see how you did. I have a pretty good stroke I always work on my fundamentals. The original DigiCue helped me to keep still and not jump up on my shots. I really have improved in that area. Also I pocket balls more consistently. As you get the older I am 59 now you really have to have good form and stroke. It feels good when you have younger players watching you play and that you could compete with them.
On the back stroke pause if it is 0.1 if you do not really have a noticeable pause will you get a lot of faults. I might pause but it is really not pronounced. I guess you have to experiment with it. Also I forgot to mention on the finish I read that people say it expects you to stay still too long so they turn it off. How do you have your finish setup?
Thanks again!!!!!
Personally my finish needs improvement, probably related to rushing. But I can get advanced all green when I concentrate much more often now. Minimum is one second of staying down or staying still. It seems like an eternity, but I designed it that way so that the muscle memory required would sink in. Plus we tend to get a little less patient under pressure so the idea is that a touch more time than natural will help when the competition comes.
koolkatt58
Registered
Nate:
Let me know if you get any info on the Digicel app for Amazon tablets and iPad mini iOS 9. Thanks again.
Let me know if you get any info on the Digicel app for Amazon tablets and iPad mini iOS 9. Thanks again.
OK, so I upgraded to the DigiCue Blue. I like the app.
Very early, but I'm curious about a few things. So in actual play I have a pretty good stroke. I can duplicate results of tough shots fairly consistently.
The good news is it appears I have room for improvement. That's great, because I'd like to get better. If I was getting all 10s I wouldn't have anything to work on!
In particular I have two issues it appears:
1) Tip Steer. I am consistently steering left. Not always enough to trigger the buzz, but lots of 7s and 8s. OK, so now I know I'm hitting off center. Are there any drills you'd recommend to troubleshoot this?
2) Straightness. On routine stop shots my straightness is often mediocre, 4-7 range. And when I strike the ball hard it goes to 0. For example, on a shot where I have to power draw with low left english I might get a 8-10 in all categories including tip steer, but a 0 in straightness. So I know something isn't right, but I don't know where to begin to fix it.
I think the DigiCue Blue is an awesome tool, but I'd really like to see some instructional videos on drills that can be used to improve these specific areas. Even a "DigiCue Clinic" would be cool. I know I'd fly and spend two 8 hour days to work with someone if that person seriously thought they could take a high level player, look at the app feedback, and help guide them into a better delivery.
Any recommendations?
Very early, but I'm curious about a few things. So in actual play I have a pretty good stroke. I can duplicate results of tough shots fairly consistently.
The good news is it appears I have room for improvement. That's great, because I'd like to get better. If I was getting all 10s I wouldn't have anything to work on!
In particular I have two issues it appears:
1) Tip Steer. I am consistently steering left. Not always enough to trigger the buzz, but lots of 7s and 8s. OK, so now I know I'm hitting off center. Are there any drills you'd recommend to troubleshoot this?
2) Straightness. On routine stop shots my straightness is often mediocre, 4-7 range. And when I strike the ball hard it goes to 0. For example, on a shot where I have to power draw with low left english I might get a 8-10 in all categories including tip steer, but a 0 in straightness. So I know something isn't right, but I don't know where to begin to fix it.
I think the DigiCue Blue is an awesome tool, but I'd really like to see some instructional videos on drills that can be used to improve these specific areas. Even a "DigiCue Clinic" would be cool. I know I'd fly and spend two 8 hour days to work with someone if that person seriously thought they could take a high level player, look at the app feedback, and help guide them into a better delivery.
Any recommendations?
1) I'd recommend playing 2-cushion billiards on a pool table (same rules as three cushion, but only two. Pockets are just hazards with no penalty, so spot anything that falls).
Why?
I've found that this game is more demanding of a straight stroke and exact tip position than is pocketing balls. Any tip steering will cause a missed point, where as in pool you can get away with a lot of unintentional spin. It also demands a lot more from your stroke too, and gets your body a little more comfortable and less tense. Then after a while if you miss pocketing balls, play any pool game you want and you will notice a positive difference.
2) You can stroke a perfect 10 for straightness with hard shot, but it is extremely difficult. The reason is because straightness measures the radial force of the butt of the cue... so any tiny non-straight imperfection will be multiplied by the force of your stroke. I scaled most of the dynamic range of this parameter down to more common speeds to maximize accuracy, so this may be a trade-off. For very hard shots, the sensor may be close to saturating, and could simply be the limit of the device.
3) Check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wP9M_fZPNeE
I made this technical video to help answer some questions. Some people like the subtitle format, others don't. I would like to find time to create a series of instructional videos as you suggested. I will most likely be at the SBE in April next year, but I'd like to have something posted before then.
Enjoy
Nate - OB DigiCue design engineer / inventor