I agree with this. I was assuming a full field, in which case it does make a difference.
Gideon
US DPEN Time for a little Clarity
- Thread starter pro9dg
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I agree with this. I was assuming a full field, in which case it does make a difference.
Gideon
Per the press release:
" ..I spoke with Pat Fleming this morning and we are looking very good with the number of players 70 days out. With the ones already paid, my list of current past champions playing, and 15 plus invitations Pat had requests for in order to come, now puts us right at half full, in the 60’s..."
Ok, I have to call BS on this. You've been the most vocal person on here regarding the US open. You've participated in every US Open thread. I know you've read every press release. Yet, you don't know that the list of paid players is at accu-stats.com? I know this US Open is a heated topic for all of us, but this makes me think you are deliberately going out of your way to cause trouble.
NYC cue dude
Banned
Hi Jay,
You and I both know that not everyone got paid on time. And further, you also know that even though the money was in escrow, at the time payouts were due, Barry fought tooth and nail to distribute the money, HIMSELF. Because Johnny's own credibility was on the line, he forced Barry into compliance. But only after threats of physical violence, threats of law suits and the possibility of law enforcement involvement. Yes, it got that bad. Still, I AM 100% CERTAIN YOU ALREADY KNOW THIS. Please don't try to mitigate the damage Barry has already done to his own credibility and the viability of his event.
I'm a huge believer in your and Pat's abilities. Not to mention your integrity. I know about some of the things you've done in the past, at great personal financial sacrifice. There's no doubt in my mind that if given the opportunity to turn this event into the premiere US event it has been historically, you will do it. But that is going to require Barry relinquishing all financial control. Will you actually get that opportunity, come crunch time? Only time will tell. I'd advise you to prepare for last minute shenanigans. Prior planning prevents poor performance.
Thanks for the sage advice. Pat and I are in constant communication. That's all I want to say on here.
This is exactly right. If Barry ever has access to even one penny of the prize fund for even one second after the date at which he has promised to post the added money in escrow (July 20 in the case of this year I think it was) then this will fail. And I do mean one cent and one second literally. The escrow agent can't even hand a check to Barry so that he can personally hand it to the player even if all three of them are standing together. Not one penny for one second, literally, ever. Nor can any of the money ever get in anyone else's hand besides Pat or Jay because Barry might be able to talk them into handing it over to him. Anything short of this will end in shenanigans at some point, guaranteed.
That said, I thought that this was already to be the case this year. The added money was posted with Pat (the escrow agent) by the July deadline, and all entry fees are being paid directly to Pat, and all payments to players are being handled by Pat or Jay (the tournament director) and Barry will literally never have access to even one cent for even one second. Is this not correct?
Somebody is nuts and will end up getting burned by that terrible lapse in judgement if this isn't to be case.
GoldenFlash
Banned
No.....it isn't "that simple".
Have you actually SEEN the bank statements showing the monies deposited as of today?
Has Fleming?
It would slow down a lot of this back and forth stuff if you and Fleming would make a copy of the bank statement showing this money posted in the account, NOW. Then post that statement right here on-line in this forum.
That would help toward eliminating that "he said" "she said" stuff.
How about it?
Then it might start being "that simple".
I eventually found the aforementioned list of paid entries which starting at Number 16 proceeded with 23 names. Six of those are the Taipei contingent who are friends of mine.
They would not be guaranteed starters unless the numbers increase rapidly.
This business of 'prize money subject to entries' is BOLLIX. That may be acceptable at some hick country event. But come on, if this is the pinnacle of what America has to offer then why even bother.
I am not going out of my way to cause trouble. I have helped many players throughout the world and there are players within my immediate circle who would like to play in a 90s style US Open but who are hesitant to spend money pursuing a dream that could fast become a nightmare.
I think that the concensus on this thread appears to be that there are still a lot of people waiting for a Doomsday outcome to this.
There are others whose sheer Jingoism is blinding them. But could they honestly say that they are PROUD of what this event has become.
Jay is doing his best to instill some pride and I have a great deal of respect for the man.
But he is big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself and he will still emerge from the other side of this as The Nation's Favorite Nostalgian.
There are others whose sheer Jingoism is blinding them. But could they honestly say that they are PROUD of what this event has become.
Jay is doing his best to instill some pride and I have a great deal of respect for the man.
But he is big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself and he will still emerge from the other side of this as The Nation's Favorite Nostalgian.
:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1:
It would be a good idea to keep your little animated guys handy. You could probably use them many times before the Open is over
GoldenFlash
Banned
It's not about being "big enough and ugly enough to take care of himself"....that's poolroom bum talk. It is about BUSINESS.
I said it in a previous post.
All Helfert and Fleming have to do to knock out a huge amount of skepticism going in, is to merely post on this forum a copy of the bank statement showing the money deposited in the bank NOW.
Since Fleming is the one who seems to be the presumptive 'check writing guy', he could do a lot for this tournament by posting the bank statement right now. (instead of being at pool tournaments commentating on the same old things"
Show the proof....that is a very simple thing to do, if it's all there. (just like getting a mortgage....."furnish bank statements to the loan processor").
Is that too unreasonable??????
Yes, it is. I'm not aware of anyone ever having any reason to doubt what Pat Fleming says.
(And I'm not aware of anyone but you asking for more than his word on this matter.)
Jay has been quite clear in outlining the added money, impact of free entries for past champions etc. as has Pat. Pat joined the commentator’s booth at the Turning Stone stream to specifically address anyone who wished to ask questions via the chat. He also indicated how/where he could be contacted if anyone came up with other concerns; both Jay and Pat have been open and transparent.
To make a post like this demanding that bank statements be publically posted is arrogance taken to the extreme and disrespectful to the very people that have stepped in to rescue a good event that was in serious trouble.
I suggest that what is “that simple” is you “simply” do not take the time to keep up to date on the many missives given out by Pat and Jay and you simply do not get it.
We are all upset with the past shenanigans that have gone on to drag this event to its knees and no one can defend the past errors that Barry has made. To cast aspersions on those people of sterling reputation, who have stepped in to help and put their credibility on the line by suggesting they do not know what they are doing in that they need to show copies of anything to you or anyone else to prove they are doing what they have committed to is simply beyond the pale and yes (in response to your next post #52), it is not reasonable.
Jerry
If Pat tells me he has collected 75K in added money, that's good enough for me. I'd stake my life on it. Pat is one of the most honorable men to ever grace our sport. As for the guy who's doubting him, who's he?
By the way, for the third time, the added money is NOT tied into number of entries, never has been. It will be the same 75K added with 80 players as with 128 players. One last thing, I'm not in any way concerned about the number of entries so far. It's actually ahead of last year's pace when we ended up with 126 players. We are still two months out! Check back in one month and see where we're at then. I will still gladly bet on over 100 players entered.
P.S. There is something I want to say to all of you about Barry Behrman. I've known Barry for over 30 years and we've worked together countless times on the Open and other tournaments going back to Richie Florence productions. He has an undying love for pool and the players, that has never been quenched in spite of the vicissitudes of his life. No question he has made some grievous errors in judgement when dealing with money, both during the Opens and outside of them. He has made some bad personal decisions as well that have been costly for him. And yes, he has royally pissed me off as a friend who cares. More than once I wanted to box his ears and he knows it.
All that said, Barry is the one who found the excellent venue this year, Barry is the one making all the pre-tourney arrangements for the tournament layout, spectator seating, vendor set-up, refreshments, room accommodations, etc. Because I have done all these things myself in the past, I know what a big undertaking this is. There are a million other things Barry has to take care of to make this event work and I give him credit for that. All I have to do is show up and run the tournament. My job is easy by comparison.
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Pat answered some questions live on the Turning stone stream from the chat today regarding the US Open.
His answers to the questions are (paraphrasing):
1. The 75k is in place
2. The 75k is added even if 6 total players enter.
3. The 15 active past champions receive free entry. Barry is NOT paying 1K for their entry. He clarified this explicitly, as even his co-commentator Jerry Forsyth thought Barry was actually paying for the 15 players out of his own pocket. So 15 FREE entries, plus 113 PAID entries, plus 75K added = 128 players, and 188K purse.
4. He said that if some of the past champions decline their free entry and do not play, AND, if there is another player with money in hand who wants to enter, then the number of PAID entries will be over 113, and the prize money would be higher. The 75K added would not change in either case.
5. He said the tournament ends on a Friday, instead of on Sunday this year, because that's the way Barry wanted it due to Halloween.
6. The total number of players entered thus far are 42 or 43 [I forget which he said]. This includes the 15 free entries of the past champions. [Note, the acca-stats website currently lists 38 total players as I write this, so it probably has not been updated with the latest few entries]
7. Entries can be made in person on the day of the event if there is room left.
8. Barry will be on the microphone, but Pat will put him on 1/2 hour earlier than normal, so that he does not interfere with the match schedules.
9. Pat made a reference that he is handling the money for the VIP seats. Although, I might have misunderstood this, so I'm not certain on this point.
10. Any questions anyone has please call Pat at his 800 number (he gave it, and its on the acc-stats website) and he will be happy to discuss one on one.
Questions I saw not answered by Pat:
1. Is Pat only handling the prize money, or is he also handling the referee/staff/hotel/vendor payments?
2. Has Shane been paid in full for his prior wins? We know he has been on a payment plan, but is it fully paid off as of today.
To be fair, Pat did a great job with the questions. He was carefully reading the chat (the stream showed him) and answering between racks. So I don't know if he chose to not answer these questions, or did not see them.
His answers to the questions are (paraphrasing):
1. The 75k is in place
2. The 75k is added even if 6 total players enter.
3. The 15 active past champions receive free entry. Barry is NOT paying 1K for their entry. He clarified this explicitly, as even his co-commentator Jerry Forsyth thought Barry was actually paying for the 15 players out of his own pocket. So 15 FREE entries, plus 113 PAID entries, plus 75K added = 128 players, and 188K purse.
4. He said that if some of the past champions decline their free entry and do not play, AND, if there is another player with money in hand who wants to enter, then the number of PAID entries will be over 113, and the prize money would be higher. The 75K added would not change in either case.
5. He said the tournament ends on a Friday, instead of on Sunday this year, because that's the way Barry wanted it due to Halloween.
6. The total number of players entered thus far are 42 or 43 [I forget which he said]. This includes the 15 free entries of the past champions. [Note, the acca-stats website currently lists 38 total players as I write this, so it probably has not been updated with the latest few entries]
7. Entries can be made in person on the day of the event if there is room left.
8. Barry will be on the microphone, but Pat will put him on 1/2 hour earlier than normal, so that he does not interfere with the match schedules.
9. Pat made a reference that he is handling the money for the VIP seats. Although, I might have misunderstood this, so I'm not certain on this point.
10. Any questions anyone has please call Pat at his 800 number (he gave it, and its on the acc-stats website) and he will be happy to discuss one on one.
Questions I saw not answered by Pat:
1. Is Pat only handling the prize money, or is he also handling the referee/staff/hotel/vendor payments?
2. Has Shane been paid in full for his prior wins? We know he has been on a payment plan, but is it fully paid off as of today.
To be fair, Pat did a great job with the questions. He was carefully reading the chat (the stream showed him) and answering between racks. So I don't know if he chose to not answer these questions, or did not see them.
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I don't think Pat is handling any payouts other than tournament prize money. I said in an earlier post that Shane had been paid in full months ago, prior to Derby City. Same with Dennis. Yes it was slow but they got it! This year there should be no such delays.
I know you have said Shane has been paid in full recently. However, other people that also know Shane well have said he is not, in the same time frame.
We all know Shane has been on a payment plan for several years for each of his wins. He has stated before something to the affect that "he is happy with the payments". Is it possible when you asked Shane, he answered he is happy with the payment plan he is on with Barry, and not that he is paid 100% in full for each year that he won?
I'm not calling you a liar. I'm just not comfortable taking your word that he's paid in full for every year based on past history, and that he has said "he is happy with the payments". Shane has not opened his mouth publicly with regard to Barry's payments (or lack of), where as many other pros have all over here and on FB during the past couple of years called out Barry for not paying them.
Furthermore, several of the member here have asked "is Shane paid in full for every single year as of today" question for the past two years IN threads where it was 100% obvious Barry was reading, because Roberta was writing replies on his behalf (she said she was). So Barry definitley read this question countless times. Yet, not once has Barry or Roberta directly addressed if Shane is 100% paid in full.
Those are the reasons I am still not convinced Shane is paid in full for every single year, even though you have state he is.
Respectfully, Nick.
GoldenFlash
Banned
Hyping a flat store maybe?
However, at this time, since you are one of the godheads of the pool playing industry, I will remain silent until another time. But, I will be watching you and your partners like a hawk (as everyone should do) when it comes to any business transaction of this size based on a handshake and "I give you my word".
If this thing falls apart when it comes to paying off....I am going to be on you like white on rice. There are others with a lot more investigating interests than me who are observing as well. Since I am just a meaningless nobody to the pool world, you should just ignore me completely.
It would be wonderful if it came off nice and clean.....but its history and the dysfunctional nature of so many pool players "who will beat everybody up out in the alley" indicate that it will not.:yeah:
Remember, "revenge is a dish that is best served cold".
Only time will tell. Byeeeee.
Your platitudes and historical references pale in the face of a full and thorough examination. I detect some fear.If Pat tells me he has collected 75K in added money, that's good enough for me. I'd stake my life on it. Pat is one of the most honorable men to ever grace our sport. As for the guy who's doubting him, who's he?
By the way, for the third time, the added money is NOT tied into number of entries, never has been. It will be the same 75K added with 80 players as with 128 players. One last thing, I'm not in any way concerned about the number of entries so far. It's actually ahead of last year's pace when we ended up with 126 players. We are still two months out! Check back in one month and see where we're at then. I will still gladly bet on over 100 players entered.
P.S. There is something I want to say to all of you about Barry Behrman. I've known Barry for over 30 years and we've worked together countless times on the Open and other tournaments going back to Richie Florence productions. He has an undying love for pool and the players, that has never been quenched in spite of the vicissitudes of his life. No question he has made some grievous errors in judgement when dealing with money, both during the Opens and outside of them. He has made some bad personal decisions as well that have been costly for him. And yes, he has royally pissed me off as a friend who cares. More than once I wanted to box his ears and he knows it.
All that said, Barry is the one who found the excellent venue this year, Barry is the one making all the pre-tourney arrangements for the tournament layout, spectator seating, vendor set-up, refreshments, room accommodations, etc. Because I have done all these things myself in the past, I know what a big undertaking this is. There are a million other things Barry has to take care of to make this event work and I give him credit for that. All I have to do is show up and run the tournament. My job is easy by comparison.
However, at this time, since you are one of the godheads of the pool playing industry, I will remain silent until another time. But, I will be watching you and your partners like a hawk (as everyone should do) when it comes to any business transaction of this size based on a handshake and "I give you my word".
If this thing falls apart when it comes to paying off....I am going to be on you like white on rice. There are others with a lot more investigating interests than me who are observing as well. Since I am just a meaningless nobody to the pool world, you should just ignore me completely.
It would be wonderful if it came off nice and clean.....but its history and the dysfunctional nature of so many pool players "who will beat everybody up out in the alley" indicate that it will not.:yeah:
Remember, "revenge is a dish that is best served cold".
Only time will tell. Byeeeee.
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