What do you do now?

Depending on the game situation and me being impatient I would probably try the jack up and play the 12-8 combo into the side !!!

Steve

intentional foul may not be a bad play here,,,,,,,,,

Looks like the eight might be makeable in the side but this is a defense-oriented thread, so I will stick to safety play.

As it appears that the eight cannot be made into the corner, I'd start by hitting the cue ball about an inch so it's just above the twelve.
Opponent may have a safety off the eight but it's unlikely they would chance it with me on a foul, so they'll likely foul back. If they err and freeze me to the twelve (or, for that matter, the eight), as more than half the good players I've ever played would, I'll have a cross table safety grazing the twelve and I'm probably right back in the safety battle. But let's assume I won't be so fortunate. A far better repsonse from my opponent would be for them to knock it back past the twelve, but it's hard to imagine that I won't see a decent amount of the fifteen even if they execute this perfectly. After this, I'd graze the fifteen and send the cue ball one rail behind (and near) the five ball and, again, I'm right back in the safety battle.

So, to the original poster, yes, taking a scratch is best here.

sjm said:

Looks like the eight might be makeable in the side but this is a defense-oriented thread, so I will stick to safety play.

As it appears that the eight cannot be made into the corner, I'd start by hitting the cue ball about an inch so it's just above the twelve.
Opponent may have a safety off the eight but it's unlikely they would chance it with me on a foul, so they'll likely foul back. If they err and freeze me to the twelve, as more than half the good players I've ever played would, I'll have a cross table safety off the twelve and I'm probably right back in the safety battle. But let's assume I won't be so fortunate. A far better repsonse from them would be for them to knock it back past the twelve, but it' hard to imagine that I won't see a decent amount of the fifteen even if they execute this perfectly. After this, I'd graze the fifteen and send the cue ball one rail behind (and near) the five ball and, again, I'm right back in the safety battle.

So, to the original poster, yes, taking a scratch is best here.

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The move up above the 12 is very nice and of course I had not thought of it. I had been looking for something to skim over to the side and bring the ball back again and by you moving like you would, you have given yourself an opportunity to get that shot. Very clever. :thumbup:

Grazing the 15 and taking the cue ball up against the 5 or near enough to cut off any shots on the 7 or the 9 is a shot, but with my cue ball control, I can smell a sell out coming a mile away.

krupa said:

Thanks for the replies.

There's at least an inch between the 12 and 8 balls. Even if it's somewhat wired, I would have no idea how to shoot it to get the 8 in the side (the CB, 12, and 10 are all frozen.)

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Distance between the 12 and 8 aside, the way you shoot that shot, is to leverage a BCA/WPA rule -- that if the cue ball is declared "frozen" to an object, that you are allowed to shoot right through it (through the object ball) with a normal stroke.

But in this case, the way you leverage that rule is not to shoot straight through it, but rather to jack up on the cue ball as if you're going to masse it. Aim directly at the 8-ball, hitting the cue ball with a downward/masse "bottom left" english, and it will "throw" the 12-ball out towards the 8-ball.

Remember I said "distance between the 12 and 8 aside"? This is the killer. If the 12 and 8 were closer together (e.g. nearly wired), the bottom-left-english-masse on the cue ball might be a passing thought. But an inch between those two balls? No way. Stu's instructions for taking a scratch are indeed the way to go.

-Sean

I'd shoot straight at the 4 ball with draw from this angle the 12 is dead in the corner off the 8.

3andstop said:

I'd shoot straight at the 4 ball with draw from this angle the 12 is dead in the corner off the 8.

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LOL! Yup, "that's the shot." :thumbup2:

dmgwalsh said:

The move up above the 12 is very nice and of course I had not thought of it. I had been looking for something to skim over to the side and bring the ball back again and by you moving like you would, you have given yourself an opportunity to get that shot. Very clever. :thumbup:

Grazing the 15 and taking the cue ball up against the 5 or near enough to cut off any shots on the 7 or the 9 is a shot, but with my cue ball control, I can smell a sell out coming a mile away.

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Perhaps so, Dennis, but you're in a fix here and need to take steps to create an escape route. If you create the escape route and fail to execute the escape shot required of you, you've still played with creativity and insight. Also, take note of the fact that the safty behind the five gives you the edge in the safety battle that will ensue.

sjm said:

Perhaps so, Dennis, but you're in a fix here and need to take steps to create an escape route. If you create the escape route and fail to execute the escape shot required of you, you've still played with creativity and insight. Also, take note of the fact that the safty behind the five gives you the edge in the safety battle that will ensue.

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I understand, Stu. When you are in trouble, you have to make your best effort to get out. The first part is to recognize the options. Then take your best shot at it.

I executed one last night, not as good as the hide next to the 5 one here, but one where I brushed off a ball and went straight under a ball like the 5, which was more in the middle of the rack area, without balls like the 13, 7, and 6 sticking out. Certainly not as touchy a shot, but one I sometimes blow by hitting too soft or too hard, selling out the "5".

Baby steps, but steps nonetheless.:smile:

dmgwalsh said:

I understand, Stu. When you are in trouble, you have to make your best effort to get out. The first part is to recognize the options. Then take your best shot at it.

I executed one last night, not as good as the hide next to the 5 one here, but one where I brushed off a ball and went straight under a ball like the 5, which was more in the middle of the rack area, without balls like the 13, 7, and 6 sticking out. Certainly not as touchy a shot, but one I sometimes blow by hitting too soft or too hard, selling out the "5".

Baby steps, but steps nonetheless.:smile:

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Sounds good, Dennis. Just like in all aspects of pool and in all disciplines over the green felt, if you're not playing the shots you need to know to win, your game will lack necessary features. Defense is just like offense in one respect ---- get it wrong and you may have to take a seat for a while. As your obviously not shying away from these types of shots, it sounds like you've got an open mind and it will serve you well.

Keep up the good work.