couple of newbie questions

justadub · Apr 24, 2012

Still getting my feet wet with 14.1, and enjoying it a lot. I have a couple of silly questions, if i might ask. (Yes, I realize these probably can be answered using the search function...

)

My questions are somewhat related. First, when you folks are all talking about runs that you've had, are these runs in a game against someone, or simply playing by yourself for the practice and challenge of it? What little I've played of this so far (and with my poor ability, heh) I find I have to try for a safety fairly often.

Secondly, what is the general opinion about the opening break? My friend, who's been teaching me, is of the thought to pick off a corner ball gently, in a fashion he says he learned watching and reading Mosconi. I understand the strategy (somewhat) and we have a good battle looking for the breakout shot. But there is no way for me to ever run even a few balls in this style of play, which is of course beside the point. Scoring more points is, and I get that. This is what got me to wondering about all these runs folks are talking about, and whether they occur in game play or not. And the style of play that must be different than how my friend learned all those years ago...

I appreciate your guidance, gang. Gonna catch up on my homework this weekend, bring my copy of 99 Critical Shots on a long trip with me. (I need to go back and re-read the last sections dealing with 14.1, that I glossed over too quickly on my first few reads...)

krupa · Apr 24, 2012

My paltry high run (21) is just by setting up an ideal break shot and going for it. In a game, my high run is 12, I think? I stopped the former method of practice because I need to practice safeties. So instead, I literally play against myself starting with a break shot, trading safes back and forth, etc. I don't keep score and have no idea how many I run at any given time (definitely not 21, though.)

Regarding the start of a game, it sounds like you're playing it correctly. It's pretty slow in the early goings. Search for "world 14.1 championships" over at youtube and watch how they start the game.

Renegade_56 · Apr 24, 2012

pay ALOT of attention to clusters in the rack, learn how the balls throw, learn tickies, learn to find dead balls in the rack,,,,,,all of these are things that can turn the game around very quickly,,,,,,,,and get a better book.

dmgwalsh · Apr 24, 2012

justadub said:
Still getting my feet wet with 14.1, and enjoying it a lot. I have a couple of silly questions, if i might ask. (Yes, I realize these probably can be answered using the search function...)

My questions are somewhat related. First, when you folks are all talking about runs that you've had, are these runs in a game against someone, or simply playing by yourself for the practice and challenge of it?

Both. For example, Marop, out in Californiay, does not get the opportunity to play many matches, so most of his high runs are from him setting up a break ball and going after it.

I was in two leagues here in Chicago and sometimes would find myself playing 15 or 20 hours worth of matches in a week and so I would have ample opportunity to run some balls. My high of 57, I just set up a break ball and went. I had a 56 and a few other 50s in match play.

justadub said:
Secondly, what is the general opinion about the opening break? My friend, who's been teaching me, is of the thought to pick off a corner ball gently, in a fashion he says he learned watching and reading Mosconi. I understand the strategy (somewhat) and we have a good battle looking for the breakout shot. But there is no way for me to ever run even a few balls in this style of play, which is of course beside the point. Scoring more points is, and I get that. This is what got me to wondering about all these runs folks are talking about, and whether they occur in game play or not. And the style of play that must be different than how my friend learned all those years ago...

I appreciate your guidance, gang. Gonna catch up on my homework this weekend, bring my copy of 99 Critical Shots on a long trip with me. (I need to go back and re-read the last sections dealing with 14.1, that I glossed over too quickly on my first few reads...)

Not sure what you are getting at here. Of course the opening break has to be super safe. there are good examples of it everywhere. Watch any match. The fact that you trade safeties at the beginning or even during the game, should not necessarily impact upon your opportunity to make a good run. Once you get a good shot and the balls are open, then it is off to the races!

justadub · Apr 24, 2012

Re-reading that, I see that I came off poorly in my thoughts. What I should have said that at my current ability, I'm not very likely to put together even small runs when the pack isn't broken up much. At this point I'm not seeing the multiball combo's in the pack, and I don't hit my object ball well enough to come back into the pack to break things up some. YET

I realize I have much to learn, and I'm really enjoying it. I was merely curious about the runs mentioned, and if folks ever just break open the rack at the beginning of the game. Especially if just practicing by themselves...

I assume that's what folks do at SBE and other events where they hold the high run challenges, right?

Thanks for te replies, folks.

Rich R. · Apr 25, 2012

I think most people who have been playing for a while can tell you their high run in practice and their high run in a match. Of course, the high run in a match is the more important number.

An opening break in 14-1 is not meant to leave a shot for your opponent. You really don't want to break up many balls and idealy, you only want two balls and the cue ball to hit a rail and not leave a shot.
In practice, you can always set up an ideal break shot, smash the balls and start from there. Of course, it never hurts to practice a proper opening break and the safety battle that may follow.

dmgwalsh · Apr 25, 2012

Some guys practice by spreading out all 15 and just running them, over and over again. Good practice for making a lot of balls and not losing your concentration. That sounds like what you want to do.

michael4 · Apr 25, 2012

dmgwalsh said:
Some guys practice by spreading out all 15 and just running them, over and over again. Good practice for making a lot of balls and not losing your concentration. That sounds like what you want to do.

I agree with this, and as a somewhat newbie, its still my most common way to practice (too lazy to rack?), but I would add that I used to "cheat" myself by not worrying about position enough (when there are 7-14 balls artificially spread out on the table, you may not be penalized - initially - for leaving shape up to chance). My solution is to force yourself to call-out / plan at least one ball ahead, and more than that as soon as you are able to.

In other words, keep this drill as challenging and realistic as you can, and you will progress faster.

After you start making more balls, you will start to see which balls need to be cleared out first and why. As soon as I figure that out myself I will let you know!

dmgwalsh · Apr 25, 2012

michael4 said:
I agree with this, and as a somewhat newbie, its still my most common way to practice (too lazy to rack?), but I would add that I used to "cheat" myself by not worrying about position enough (when there are 7-14 balls artificially spread out on the table, you may not be penalized - initially - for leaving shape up to chance). My solution is to force yourself to call-out / plan at least one ball ahead, and more than that as soon as you are able to.

In other words, keep this drill as challenging and realistic as you can, and you will progress faster.

After you start making more balls, you will start to see which balls need to be cleared out first and why. As soon as I figure that out myself I will let you know!

Exactly. I like to call the next two balls I am going to shoot. It makes you concentrate on position. I also like to find exactly where I want my cue ball to land, also good practice.

stevekur1 · Apr 25, 2012

dmgwalsh said:
Exactly. I like to call the next two balls I am going to shoot. It makes you concentrate on position. I also like to find exactly where I want my cue ball to land, also good practice.

Very Good suggestion dennis, this is very good training into the way we should be planning. it forces you to get on the correct side of the next ball.

-Steve

Demondrew · Apr 27, 2012

One of my favorite drills is the Jim Rempe’s "Brainwash Drill". Spread all 15 balls out on the table take ball in hand and run them off the table. No fouls and no rails are the parameters. Once you have done this try and do it without hitting another ball either.
Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8naAH1Q2_g&feature=channel&list=UL

stevekur1 · Apr 27, 2012

Demondrew said:
One of my favorite drills is the Jim Rempe’s "Brainwash Drill". Spread all 15 balls out on the table take ball in hand and run them off the table. No fouls and no rails are the parameters. Once you have done this try and do it without hitting another ball either.
Here is an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8naAH1Q2_g&feature=channel&list=UL

Well Played Andy....You did that better than King James himself !!!

Btw, I Love The Soundtrack !!
-Steve

this is the stuff we all need to practice more of, thanks for sharing

Paul Dayton · Apr 27, 2012

I love the no cushion drill. After a few racks start setting the balls up nearer to rails and farther apart. It sharpens pattern play as well as position. you can set up some clusters and you can play two balls ahead. It is a good loosening practice before a match. You get good at it you can run rack after rack.

justadub · Apr 28, 2012

Rich R. said:
I think most people who have been playing for a while can tell you their high run in practice and their high run in a match. Of course, the high run in a match is the more important number.

An opening break in 14-1 is not meant to leave a shot for your opponent. You really don't want to break up many balls and idealy, you only want two balls and the cue ball to hit a rail and not leave a shot.
In practice, you can always set up an ideal break shot, smash the balls and start from there. Of course, it never hurts to practice a proper opening break and the safety battle that may follow.

I don't disagree with any of your points. And I really appreciate all the responses, especially about the practice ideas.

But I still wonder my original question? When you folks quote your high run, is that in a game setting, or an individual setting? And if an individual setting, did you break open the rack initially (opening break)?

Thanks again for your thoughts, gang.

dmgwalsh · Apr 28, 2012

justadub said:
I don't disagree with any of your points. And I really appreciate all the responses, especially about the practice ideas.

But I still wonder my original question? When you folks quote your high run, is that in a game setting, or an individual setting? And if an individual setting, did you break open the rack initially (opening break)?

Thanks again for your thoughts, gang.

Not sure what exactly you mean by the phrase "Did you break open the rack initially(opening break)?"

Most of my runs come during matches, so I start however the table happens to have left me.

A few runs are me racking 14 balls placing the cue ball and the 15th ball wherever I want, and then shooting.

No one just smashes the rack open, takes an open table like that and then begins his run if that is what you are asking.

Rich R. · Apr 28, 2012

justadub said:
But I still wonder my original question? When you folks quote your high run, is that in a game setting, or an individual setting? And if an individual setting, did you break open the rack initially (opening break)?

It is really easy. You should just quote your high run and mention whether it was in practice or in a match. For example, "I ran xxx balls in practice" or "I ran xxx balls in a match." Don't get all caught up about it either way. It's just a number. Winning a match takes a lot more than just running balls.

When trying to run balls in practice, you don't just smash the rack open and then start. The proper way, IMHO, is to rack the balls and set up a break shot with the fifteenth ball and start from there.
Of course, in a match, the run starts with your first shot, no matter where that is in the game.

justadub · Apr 29, 2012

dmgwalsh said:
Not sure what exactly you mean by the phrase "Did you break open the rack initially(opening break)?"

No one just smashes the rack open, takes an open table like that and then begins his run if that is what you are asking.

Yep, that was the question. Thanks for the answer.

wigglybridge · Apr 29, 2012

why is it called the "brainwash drill"?

driven · Apr 29, 2012

wigglybridge said:
why is it called the "brainwash drill"?

That is just what it is called. If you have the Rempe vid. "how I run the rack"
I think that's what its called, He gives a demo of the drill. Jim will tell you it makes you see patterns. and he calles the last 7 or 8 ball before he shoots them
Very Impressive. We should all shoot this drill a few times a day. We should all run hundreds too. But that is another conversation.
Work on this drill, It must make us better players.
steven

couple of newbie questions

justadub

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krupa

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Renegade_56

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dmgwalsh

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justadub

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Rich R.

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Paul Dayton

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justadub

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dmgwalsh

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Rich R.

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justadub

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wigglybridge

14.1 straight pool!

driven

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