I started as a cue ball player, but the above is exactly the reason why I switched to the object ball last. Now I have my eyes on the cue ball during the back stroke and then switch to the object ball at the pause. I feel like it gives me the best of both worlds and helps with the transition from back stroke to follow through.
Why Object Ball Last?
- Thread starter Okie
- Start date
I started as a cue ball player, but the above is exactly the reason why I switched to the object ball last. Now I have my eyes on the cue ball during the back stroke and then switch to the object ball at the pause. I feel like it gives me the best of both worlds and helps with the transition from back stroke to follow through.
I've made several 147s looking at the object ball last, what's your point? I stated a few people will make it to pro by using bad habits. For them they are good habits. But the further you go up in skill the fewer and fewer people who have what I would consider bad habits.
Name dropping doesn't make a difference I'm afraid. For every professional in any pocket billiards discipline your can name, I can name 10 at least. You can't argue with statistics... And statistics tell me the vast majority of professional players look at the object ball last, so it must be better for the majority of students. If a player seriously can't play looking at the object ball last then by all means experiment with the cue ball last. But it is very rare to be a problem for a player. Most look at the object ball last naturally and of those I have instructed or helped out only 1 has ever had their game suffer from object ball last whilst a small army have benefitted from changing from cue ball last to object ball last.
[cough]Bullsh[/cough]
From Episode 2 of the Ronnie O'Sullivan Show at 6:20:
Question; "When you're, um, when you're down on this shot.... Are you, is the last the last ball you look at the cue ball? Or the object ball?"
Ronnie; "Uh I don't even know, to be honest with you."
Question; "No?"
Ronnie; "No, I don't even know. I suppose, it's meant to be the object ball, but I sometimes I find myself looking at the white."
John Higgins looks at the white last on every shot. Rodney Morris states in his DVD that he plays cue ball last. Willie Hoppe, selected by Billiards Digest as the player of the century looked at cue ball last.
Top level play can be obtained either way. To say one way is superior is inflammatory and slanderous. I would compare it to saying left or right handed is superior because statistically more top players shoot with that hand.
From Episode 2 of the Ronnie O'Sullivan Show at 6:20:
Question; "When you're, um, when you're down on this shot.... Are you, is the last the last ball you look at the cue ball? Or the object ball?"
Ronnie; "Uh I don't even know, to be honest with you."
Question; "No?"
Ronnie; "No, I don't even know. I suppose, it's meant to be the object ball, but I sometimes I find myself looking at the white."
John Higgins looks at the white last on every shot. Rodney Morris states in his DVD that he plays cue ball last. Willie Hoppe, selected by Billiards Digest as the player of the century looked at cue ball last.
I think this is a subject that I know more about than most. I reached shortstop level(in the 1980's) playing object ball last. I switched three years ago and do quite well with cue ball last. My current Fargo Rate is 630. I am satisfied as a recreational player. I am 64 and a full time carpenter.
MalibuMike
Banned
I'm Starting to come around... Cue Ball Last.
About a month ago I took a lesson from one of my favorite pool players, Oscar Dominguez, one of the nicest guys in pool and doesn't mind giving mediocre players like me lessons. He taught me an awesome aiming system, and helped me to let my stroke out more, Ron Rosas had me doing tons of these short punch strokes. Anyway, toward the end of the lesson Oscar asks me which ball I look at when I hit and I said the OB, I had never heard anything about hitting the CB first. At first it felt very awkward. Oscar told me I get down on my line correct, just lock that in ad concentrate on the CB. My stroke has definitely improved. As well as my CB position, it seems like I have more feel too. Although I must say on some long shots I tend to rattle the ball, but these are on Hard Times Bellflower tight pockets. And his aiming system works best when looking at the cue ball, its basically the ghost ball point, but if he is cutting the ball to the left, he lines up the left side of his tip to that GB mark and then moves his tip to just about anywhere on the Cue ball to get the needed English. It works amazing for me anyways, also looking at the cue ball last has cured some bad habits, like rushing shots or popping up, or using body English to steer the ball in...
I am much more consistent and as my stroke improves I think those long shots will come, also to follow through a little more I just do not choke up so far on my cue, its a little back from 90 degrees when I strike the ball.
My friends all said, "Oscar is goofing you dude! Nobody shoots like that!" The I asked my friend Santos who also plays at Hard Times and he told me that he also looks at the CB last. so that's good enough for me! Still I am happy to find this thread here!
About a month ago I took a lesson from one of my favorite pool players, Oscar Dominguez, one of the nicest guys in pool and doesn't mind giving mediocre players like me lessons. He taught me an awesome aiming system, and helped me to let my stroke out more, Ron Rosas had me doing tons of these short punch strokes. Anyway, toward the end of the lesson Oscar asks me which ball I look at when I hit and I said the OB, I had never heard anything about hitting the CB first. At first it felt very awkward. Oscar told me I get down on my line correct, just lock that in ad concentrate on the CB. My stroke has definitely improved. As well as my CB position, it seems like I have more feel too. Although I must say on some long shots I tend to rattle the ball, but these are on Hard Times Bellflower tight pockets. And his aiming system works best when looking at the cue ball, its basically the ghost ball point, but if he is cutting the ball to the left, he lines up the left side of his tip to that GB mark and then moves his tip to just about anywhere on the Cue ball to get the needed English. It works amazing for me anyways, also looking at the cue ball last has cured some bad habits, like rushing shots or popping up, or using body English to steer the ball in...
I am much more consistent and as my stroke improves I think those long shots will come, also to follow through a little more I just do not choke up so far on my cue, its a little back from 90 degrees when I strike the ball.
My friends all said, "Oscar is goofing you dude! Nobody shoots like that!" The I asked my friend Santos who also plays at Hard Times and he told me that he also looks at the CB last. so that's good enough for me! Still I am happy to find this thread here!
We gain FOCUS!
randyg
randyg
I've tried CB last and to me its like trying to shoot an arrow while looking at the tip of the arrow last before releasing. I get dialed-in(cueball wise) on my practice strokes but when i send it(CB) i'm laser-focused on OB. I could be wrong but if polled, i'd say at least 80 of the world's top-100 players look at OB last. I went to DCC in '07 and did kind of a non-scientific look at this. I don't recall seeing anyone looking at the CB last. Granted, these eye-shifts happen very quickly so some may have focused on CB last but of the matches where i was table-side: Buddy, Efren, SVB, Busty, Fajen, Chohan and others, all looked at OB when pulling the trigger.
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Not too sure about Rodney. Went back and watched a couple archived matches(Rodney-Dan Olsen & Rodney-Earl) and it looks to me like Rodney's eyes shift back to the OB just before he shoots. He does a lot of back-n-forth on his practice strokes but he looks at OB last. I think that's why a lot of players have trouble answering this question: their eyes dart back-n-forth so rapidly and the last second shift to OB happens in a micro-second thus they may not be aware of it taking place.
Rodney explicitly says so on the Break & Run DVD set.
Greg i watched the matches i listed and he's not looking at the cueball when he shoots. A lot of back-n-forth but its OB last. This is not uncommon in sports. Prime example is golf; a lot of players say they do this-or-that but when seen on video its obvious that what they think/feel is not what they do. RM may say he looks at CB last but from the videos i've watched he doesn't.
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I bet if we asked a lot of the top players what they did, the majority of those who said they look at cb last who actually watched them selves and looked out for their eye patterns would agree they look at object ball last. I'm not saying top players don't look at the cb last, but an overwhelming percentage of pros look at the object ball last.
In snooker especially the percentage increases due to being very low down on the shot. Head movement is deadline in that game so they try to limit that at all costs. I can see if you have a higher head position and a smaller table you would be quite easily to keep a still head and look at cb last and then follow the cue ball.
Many pros think they do one thing, and actually do something else...or, like O'Sullivan said, don't really know what they do. The darting back and forth (what we call ping pong eyes) doesn't help focus at all. Focus is achieved on both CB and OB to help create 'quiet eye'. That's where execution really improves.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Either method should employ "quiet eyes" on the final cue ball or object ball target for two relaxed seconds to finish the pre-shot routine before the final stroke is taken.
And I guarantee NO pro "just gets down on the cue ball" until they have also completely locked in the target ball and pocket in their vision. A good player can cut in tons of balls only glancing at the cue ball in peripheral vision. Now try doing the same without ever looking at the object balls. The results help explain why cue ball last is a rare choice--it requires first locking in the object ball then complete, unwavering trust in the body and stroke when switching vision.
And I guarantee NO pro "just gets down on the cue ball" until they have also completely locked in the target ball and pocket in their vision. A good player can cut in tons of balls only glancing at the cue ball in peripheral vision. Now try doing the same without ever looking at the object balls. The results help explain why cue ball last is a rare choice--it requires first locking in the object ball then complete, unwavering trust in the body and stroke when switching vision.