Effect on Cue Butt with Delrin Collets

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

Hey all,

Was working on a pin change recently and I had to support the butt on two ends with delrin collets that came with the lathe.

The outcome of the pin change turned out satisfying.

But,

both ends where the collets were "grabbing" onto made deep circular marks around the cue. At the end of the day, I had to touch up on the marks to handover the cue back to the customer.

What could be the possible reason? Could it be because of the finishing that was used? Or probably the collets were not made of Delrin at all?

Or, if this is "normal", does it mean touching up the cue butt (polishing etc) is a necessary process after every job (such as pin change)?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to hear from any of you! =)

ideologist · May 13, 2017

jollysailor said:
Hey all,

Was working on a pin change recently and I had to support the butt on two ends with delrin collets that came with the lathe.

The outcome of the pin change turned out satisfying.

But,

both ends where the collets were "grabbing" onto made deep circular marks around the cue. At the end of the day, I had to touch up on the marks to handover the cue back to the customer.

What could be the possible reason? Could it be because of the finishing that was used? Or probably the collets were not made of Delrin at all?

Or, if this is "normal", does it mean touching up the cue butt (polishing etc) is a necessary process after every job (such as pin change)?

Thanks for reading and looking forward to hear from any of you! =)

It sounds like yours are the cheap black plastic, they were probably just bored out and have sharp edges, plus you clamped down pretty tightly. Break the edges on the collets and/or use a softer material like delrin. The finish may also have just given up under the pressure, but typically this is from edges left over on the collets.

I prefer the white Acetal delrin, it is more time-consuming to make collets from it, but it rounds off beautifully and it the least damaging material out there. Grainger sells it in rods, buy the sizes you need and bore out your own collets. It's a fun project and they last for a LONG time

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

ideologist said:
It sounds like yours are the cheap black plastic, they were probably just bored out and have sharp edges, plus you clamped down pretty tightly. Break the edges on the collets and/or use a softer material like delrin. The finish may also have just given up under the pressure, but typically this is from edges left over on the collets.

I prefer the white Acetal delrin, it is more time-consuming to make collets from it, but it rounds off beautifully and it the least damaging material out there. Grainger sells it in rods, buy the sizes you need and bore out your own collets. It's a fun project and they last for a LONG time

Hi ideologist,

Thanks for the quick share!

I have felt the edges around the ID of the collets. They are chamfered slightly and they don't feel sharp actually. But then again, that was what I thought too.

I have tried making extra collets for the shafts when I started to find that I was running out of collets when more jobs started to come in. I made them from the white Delrin rods I have purchased from Atlas sometime back. I must say I agree with you. Previously I purchase a set of collets for shafts which the seller claimed it was made of black delrin. But, these collets also dug into the shafts. That was part of the reason why I make extra collets myself now.

I have some lengths of the white delrin left which I am thinking of making simple installation tools to help me install some pins to the correct depth. I am guessing the material will be good yes?

Canadian cue · May 13, 2017

ideologist said:
It sounds like yours are the cheap black plastic, they were probably just bored out and have sharp edges, plus you clamped down pretty tightly. Break the edges on the collets and/or use a softer material like delrin. The finish may also have just given up under the pressure, but typically this is from edges left over on the collets.

I prefer the white Acetal delrin, it is more time-consuming to make collets from it, but it rounds off beautifully and it the least damaging material out there. Grainger sells it in rods, buy the sizes you need and bore out your own collets. It's a fun project and they last for a LONG time

Not to nit pick but how does choice of plastic change the amount of time it takes to make the collet?

cueman · May 13, 2017

I make my large collets out of delrin also, but if someting slips and the finish is not super tough they can scar the finish. On the size that fits my butt sleeve I line it with thin pool felt.

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

cueman said:
I make my large collets out of delrin also, but if someting slips and the finish is not super tough they can scar the finish. On the size that fits my butt sleeve I line it with thin pool felt.

cueman, thanks for the sharing!

But in your opinion, what may be the possible used as the finishing in this case?

CuesDirectly · May 13, 2017

What may be causing it is the simple fact that the internal taper does not match taper of the cue. If it's off be a couple thousands of an inch, that's all it takes.

You will know it's true IF the marks left are at one end or the other end of the collet.

How long are the collets you use? A good collet is at least three inches long with a perfect match in tapers.

Happy to see you ask this question here, it's a great place to do so.

aphelps1 · May 13, 2017

cueman said:
I make my large collets out of delrin also, but if someting slips and the finish is not super tough they can scar the finish. On the size that fits my butt sleeve I line it with thin pool felt.

I have always lined all my collets with pool felt.

Alan

Phelps Custom Cues

cueman · May 13, 2017

jollysailor said:
cueman, thanks for the sharing!

But in your opinion, what may be the possible used as the finishing in this case?

You never know. But lacquer is one of the worse for getting damaged.

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

CuesDirectly said:
What may be causing it is the simple fact that the internal taper does not match taper of the cue. If it's off be a couple thousands of an inch, that's all it takes.

You will know it's true IF the marks left are at one end or the other end of the collet.

How long are the collets you use? A good collet is at least three inches long with a perfect match in tapers.

Happy to see you ask this question here, it's a great place to do so.

I'll take this as a positive comment.

But YES! I do agree with you that it's a great place to ask these questions.

CuesDirectly, thanks for sharing. I know what you mean. Yes, I did notice the marks are usually on one end of the collets during this job. Pardon me, but is there a standard taper for cues? If so, then collets with tapered ID makes sense. But if every cue on the market has various tapers.....

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

cueman said:
You never know. But lacquer is one of the worse for getting damaged.

I'll take note.

Anyway, your steady rest helped a lot in the installation of the pin perfectly. :thumbup:

CuesDirectly · May 13, 2017

jollysailor said:
I'll take this as a positive comment. But YES! I do agree with you that it's a great place to ask these questions.

CuesDirectly, thanks for sharing. I know what you mean. Yes, I did notice the marks are usually on one end of the collets during this job. Pardon me, but is there a standard taper for cues? If so, then collets with tapered ID makes sense. But if every cue on the market has various tapers.....

I am not going to say there is one standard taper.

The best collets are made by cuemakers for their own tapers. My collets are 3" long and easy to make. They are solid with no slit in the side.

I have no idea what you're using but I am sure you will have perfection in no time.

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

CuesDirectly said:
I am not going to say there is one standard taper.

The best collets are made by cuemakers for their own tapers. My collets are 3" long and easy to make. They are solid with no slit in the side.

I have no idea what you're using but I am sure you will have perfection in no time.

I'll follow your advice and probably make them 3" long for a try. But up till then, I guess I have to include repolishing as part of the pin changing service. :embarrassed2::embarrassed2:

Newsheriffintwn · May 13, 2017

Lay some strips of blue painters tape long ways where the collets will set. The tape obviously cannot overlap, The collets will set on the tape when chucked up on...finish issues will be gone as long as you are not tightening the chuck excessively.

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

Newsheriffintwn said:
Lay some strips of blue painters tape long ways where the collets will set. The tape obviously cannot overlap, The collets will set on the tape when chucked up on...finish issues will be gone as long as you are not tightening the chuck excessively.

Thanks Newsheriffintwn! I think this is another option I will look into for the time being.

jollysailor · May 13, 2017

Now, do you remove existing pins on the lathe or off the lathe?

ideologist · May 13, 2017

Canadian cue said:
Not to nit pick but how does choice of plastic change the amount of time it takes to make the collet?

Delrin is tougher than the cheap black plastic, and I drill it slower, take more time sanding it, and generally just treat it like a tool instead of a workaround like the black stuff that a lot of the "shops" have for sale

conetip · May 13, 2017

A strip of printer paper works well also, and is very consistent in thickness as well.
Neil

pescadoman · May 13, 2017

jollysailor said:
Now, do you remove existing pins on the lathe or off the lathe?

off

You need to heat them to loosen the bond. I use a torch with a machine vise next to me. I'll heat and then use a bit of force to see if it wants to budge. If not, I reapply heat. The idea, obviously, is use only enough heat to loosen the bond.

You could certainly heat the pin while in the vise as well if there is nothing flammable near.

JoeyInCali · May 14, 2017

jollysailor said:
Now, do you remove existing pins on the lathe or off the lathe?

Off the lathe with a blowtorch and a robo grip.
It's not fun.

If you have a conduction heater, it's a lot easier and safer.

Effect on Cue Butt with Delrin Collets

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