an open letter to apa haters

justaplayer said:

Well you can't fix stupid. You just hope it goes away. Problem is these guys are 75 percent of what's left in pool. Which is why its going in the toilet. Bunch of young guys who want instant gratification without the effort.

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I am one of those young guys, there is still hope! Only 27
Problem is what is the motivation to become a great player now? There really isn't much, I know McDonald managers that make more than most of the pro players.

Only way to fix it is for proper sponsorship, and promoters. But some of the older generation kind of ruined that deal with fox sports and espn. lol. You can make more throwing a dart than playing pool now.

Only thing a lot of league players know is league, and they think it is real pool and they think our way of playing is weird, that in itself is an animal that needs to be addressed as well. Only way to do that is to get sponsors and TV time to broadcast to a bigger audience.

I don't know ..the whole world is a cluster****. Why should pool be any different?

.

APA is making a WHOLE LOT of money off a whole lot of people who can't play..... (and that's fine) - if you're just out trying to have a good time I'm not knocking that.

At the same time there are superb players who sacrifice everything and dedicate their lives to this sport and they're sleeping in their broken down cars.

I just wish APA would take some of the millions they're making off Vegas-chasing, once a week-bangers.... and give back to the sport (at the pro level).

John Disque said:

APA is making a WHOLE LOT of money off a whole lot of people who can't play..... (and that's fine) - if you're just out trying to have a good time I'm not knocking that.

At the same time there are superb players who sacrifice everything and dedicate their lives to this sport and they're sleeping in their broken down cars.

I just wish APA would take some of the millions they're making off Vegas-chasing, once a week-bangers.... and give back to the sport (at the pro level).

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Never gonna happen John. APA is a blight.. APA is the worst return players could ever get on their money. They have no reason to give back. They have a quarter million people paying dues while the game is headed for extinction. Get the cash while they can, corporate mentality.

justaplayer said:

Never gonna happen John. APA is a blight.. APA is the worst return players could ever get on their money. They have no reason to give back. They have a quarter million people paying dues while the game is headed for extinction. Get the cash while they can, corporate mentality.

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A blight? worst return? Well, your right the game is headed for extinction and it's all the APA's fault.
C'mon, so you're blaming The APA for the awful things going on the Middle East, unemployment,
inflation, homeless, and let's see, what else......

Why do you play pool? Do you currently, or one day hope to play professionally and make a living doing it?
How long have you been playing?

I'm an APA player, not the best, but certainly not the worst. I spend time practicing and trying to improve,
most probably not to your level. I like The APA, I enjoy my time there competing, playing pool, hanging out
with friends.

Just why do you feel like it needs to be done to your questionable standards?
Why do you think you are the authority?
You don't like it, we all get that. You know what the really great thing about that is?

You never have to play in The APA, isn't that great?

So don't worry about their rules, or money, or players, they should never be a concern of yours.
Feel free to never join or attend an APA event, 'cause frankly, all the whining your doing makes
you look,..... well...... jealous, scorned woman territory, just let it go,
trust me - you don't need the headache

Return?

justaplayer said:

Never gonna happen John. APA is a blight.. APA is the worst return players could ever get on their money. They have no reason to give back. They have a quarter million people paying dues while the game is headed for extinction. Get the cash while they can, corporate mentality.

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I think we play for different reasons. I don't look for a return when I play golf or go fishing. It is entertainment and I enjoy competing. Pool is something you can still do at 48 and compete with the young fellas. Used to play allot of basketball but the knees just couldn't hold up. I have yet to get hurt shooting pool. As far as the APA giving back, I think they do a decent job with their main base of players and if it keeps growing I am not sure why you think pool is going to become extinct.

My only complaint about the APA is the blatant manipulation of handicaps. In my region, we have the same players chronically underrated for years. If you catch them at the bar over a few drinks, they'll admit they run up innings to keep their handicaps down.

I've seen no evidence that the national organization has any incentive to address this problem. It's sad because it poisons the system and discourages many players from participating.

IMO, each division should have a handicap committee of active high ranked players who report handicap manipulation to the LO. It would also be useful for players to use their phone to video matches where other players are manipulating the system.

The solution to cheating (yes, it is cheating) should be a temporary ban of the players involved. For chronic cheaters, a lifetime ban should be in order.

I like the APA and will probably re-join after a hiatus of about ten years. For full disclosure, I'm a 7 in 8 Ball and an 8 in 9 Ball.

justaplayer said:

Never gonna happen John. APA is a blight.. APA is the worst return players could ever get on their money. They have no reason to give back. They have a quarter million people paying dues while the game is headed for extinction. Get the cash while they can, corporate mentality.

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May I ask what it is you do for a living? Philanthropist? Do you work for free?

justaplayer said:

I don't know ..the whole world is a cluster****. Why should pool be any different?

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If you think one person is a jackass, it could be true. A couple of people, plausible. But if everyone is a jackass, according to you, they're most likely NOT the issue.

The world is fine. You, on the other hand, may not be.

justaplayer said:

Well you can't fix stupid. You just hope it goes away. Problem is these guys are 75 percent of what's left in pool. Which is why its going in the toilet. Bunch of young guys who want instant gratification without the effort.

Click to expand...

Or maybe they play for fun, not to bolster their self-esteem by mastering a skill that, in it essence, has absolutely no practical value.

Why does it drive you and your ilk crazy that people can just enjoy an activity without making it their life's work? Bowling thrived for a long time on the realization that leagues could be for all levels of players, and people play for FUN! It is the fact that in pool people get derided for playing the game for fun without trying to become "the best they can be". It is game, not the friggin Army for goodness sake!

But hey it is a great way to drive people away from the game, when they have to have the exact same attitude as faintly disreputable people have about it, or they get mocked, made fun of, and derided.

Unfortunately your first sentence is true.

John Disque said:

APA is making a WHOLE LOT of money off a whole lot of people who can't play..... (and that's fine) - if you're just out trying to have a good time I'm not knocking that.

At the same time there are superb players who sacrifice everything and dedicate their lives to this sport and they're sleeping in their broken down cars.

I just wish APA would take some of the millions they're making off Vegas-chasing, once a week-bangers.... and give back to the sport (at the pro level).

Click to expand...

Why should they? Let the leagues that aspire to develop champions do that.

Why should rational decent people who like to go out and enjoy themselves with a a particular activity have any obligation to support people who have made disastrous life choices?

And BTW, a clue, constantly insulting league players and calling them names is not the way to get them to do anything you want.

John Disque said:

APA is making a WHOLE LOT of money off a whole lot of people who can't play..... (and that's fine) - if you're just out trying to have a good time I'm not knocking that.

At the same time there are superb players who sacrifice everything and dedicate their lives to this sport and they're sleeping in their broken down cars.

I just wish APA would take some of the millions they're making off Vegas-chasing, once a week-bangers.... and give back to the sport (at the pro level).

Click to expand...

Why is it you think pro players should be on some sort of APA welfare? They made the choice to be what they are, I'm sure they don't regret it. If they do, nobody is holding a gun to their head and keeping them in the sport.

lorider said:

After reading all the responses I was quite surprised at the number of posters that support apa .

Then we have several naysayers ....some who gave legitimate comments regarding their dislike of apa..


Then we have...you..a lot of complaining and then when some one points out the lack of substance in your complaints you resort to deflecting their response or you start making derogatory comments like above.

Lets see if you can dispute the facts about leagues in general and apa in particular with baseless rhetoric and name calling.

1. Leagues are full of bangers that never improve..some truth to that. Quite a few go on to be fairly decent players though..not every pool player can be the next svb just like not every high school foot ball.player can be the next tom brady

2. Sandbagging.....yep there is some truth to that. The world is full of cheaters.....some play in leagues and some are posters on here that do not play leagues. Want proof ? Read posts on here about guys bragging about laying low in a money game trying to reel in a fish.

3. Rules.....a lot of complaints on here concerning 23 limit.....push outs......jump cues ...sandbagging....etc etc . The apa has an answer for that. Masters.

4. Table size. All.leagues are at the mercy of playing on what's available to them. When dub stated that their area plays on 9's ...mine does also at one location you deflect his respond by saying its not real pool. I have 2 answers for that...maaters and the us amateur championship.

5. Speaking of the us amateurs.....played strictly on 9's ....no handicap...mump cues and push outs allowed. In other words....real pool. You have players in this tournament ranging from a players to pro speed.

So you see ...apa offers something for every one at all levels of play . It has formats to remedy every complaint I have heard regarding leagues so I can't understand the resorting to name calling when some one addresses your complaints unless its envy.


One last thing....supporting pro pool..last I heard apa supports women's pro ....i guess they still do.. Then you have mark griffin who supports the men's pros by holding several tournaments. Why he does it is beyond me . Every time he holds one he gets bashed on here concerning payouts and table size and etc etc.


Now I agree that leagues in general and apa in particular is not every ones cup of tea but you cannot dispute the facts that the spa has a format that remedy's every single complaint that you or others like you have made.

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Masters is not the answer, a lot of area's do not have it because their LO does not want to get involved in that. Also have to pay your way for everything in masters and pay for table time during master regional and national event, even if you win some cash, you already spent a fortune paying your way there and green fees.

Also APA supports women because they have a governed body. Men do not.

And remember we are talking about the majority, not the outliers. And majority of league players are just bar bangers. The majority league players on AZ probably are not or else they would not be on AZ in the first place.

Physiqz said:

Masters is not the answer, a lot of area's do not have it because their LO does not want to get involved in that. Also have to pay your way for everything in masters and pay for table time during master regional and national event, even if you win some cash, you already spent a fortune paying your way there and green fees.

Also APA supports women because they have a governed body. Men do not.

And remember we are talking about the majority, not the outliers. And majority of league players are just bar bangers. The majority league players on AZ probably are not or else they would not be on AZ in the first place.

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The problem with pool is this prevailing sentiment amongst those who perceive themselves as the "elite".

Don't Doubt .....Don't Quibble.......Don't Complain........Just Do It.

Physiqz ......you posted....... "I am one of those young guys, there is still hope! Only 27 Problem is what is the motivation to become a great player now?"

The simple answer is within your soul....the very fibre that constitutes whom you are....the inner drive....desire.....almost fixation to be better than you were last month, week or even yesterday.

I understand the game of pool way better than most. I've mastered the movement of the cue ball after pocketing the object ball.......running the table is easy if I execute. Simple as that......I know every shot & how to play it after playing pool for 55 years & getting lots of instructional assistance over decades of playing pool. Does that mean I can't improve or get better....Heck, no.......Could I learn something new....Of course. Will I be able to achieve any improvement and build upon that to produce a better pool game? Well, the truth is ......."No".

When you get older, there are many distractions and lots of them involve your body and pain management. You cope with that but never escape it and so maintaining a focused approach becomes much harder. Father Time undermines everyone's ability to play pool at a high level. If I knew as much about pool as I do now and I was 30 years old, I would be a name to be reckoned with and even if that was not actually true, my point to Physiqz is......"I believe it to be." That is all it takes....believing in yourself and forging a commitment to becoming better, not just practicing aimlessly. Whenever yu practice or shoot pool alone, always do so with a purpose......otherwise you will never improve your skills. It is very important to remember that no matter how great one's skills might seem, the game of pool is played first between one's ears before you ever stroke the cue ball........the mental approach, toughness, discipline, shot selection, feedback on missed shots.......watch & follow the cue ball because "The cue ball never lies!". You can learn a lot from staying down in position after stroking the cue ball.

Personally, I want to be as good as I can be in anything I attempt or any endeavor. I want to prevail in any competition. I want to be admired for my skills and abilities in anything I do but that's not my ego talking.......it was how I was raised in the 50's and 60's.........if you like what you do, then do it well and if you don't, then quit doing it and find an alternative......and when you enjoy what you do, then be better at doing it than anyone else you know.....back in that era, if you were a baseball player with a .270 avg, 15 home runs, 80 rbi, his Tops baseball card wasn't very popular. Today, the same player would get highly recruited in free agency with a $12-15 mil contract. OMG.


Back to my original point......you strive to become the best you can be because that is whom you are....or then again, maybe aren't? I do not want to become a better golfer because I have hopes or aspirations of playing on tour. I do want to be a better golfer.....better than any of my friends or club members......because I feel the same about competing that Jimmy Connors did.......For you younger folks, he was a famous tennis player in the 70's and 80's. He was absolutely the fiercest competitor in tennis relying almost entirely upon a baseline game played with powerful ground strokes using using a two fisted backhand that he pounded the ball with using a Wilson T-2000 aluminum frame racket head. Connor matches would be an endurance contest of physical stamina lasting 4-5 hrs.......his matches against Bjorn Borg are legendary. Anyway, Jimmy was once asked on the Tonight Show by Johnny Carson why he competed so hard to win. Connor's answer still rings in my mind.......and I am built the same way.......He answered "I do not need to win.......I just hate the feeling of losing.........I could play Borg at Wimbledon 10 more times and if I never won, it wouldn't bother me in the least as long I don't lose.....10 ties would be just fine with me as long as I didn't lose. I just hate the taste of losing in anything, especially tennis.

That's my approach in golf and pool.........I never got my handicap lower than a 8 despite my efforts because I couldn't put in the time. at the range or on the course......it's called having a family and being a dad. Well, pool doesn't require as much time or effort as golf so I have no excuses to explain why my pool game never soared.......it reached a plateau and I never tried to elevate my game beyond that, mostly out of complacency.

Father Time robs all of us of our skills........take advantage of it while it is still on your side.



Matt B.,

lorider said:

After reading all the responses I was quite surprised at the number of posters that support apa .

Then we have several naysayers ....some who gave legitimate comments regarding their dislike of apa..


Then we have...you..a lot of complaining and then when some one points out the lack of substance in your complaints you resort to deflecting their response or you start making derogatory comments like above.

Lets see if you can dispute the facts about leagues in general and apa in particular with baseless rhetoric and name calling.

1. Leagues are full of bangers that never improve..some truth to that. Quite a few go on to be fairly decent players though..not every pool player can be the next svb just like not every high school foot ball.player can be the next tom brady

2. Sandbagging.....yep there is some truth to that. The world is full of cheaters.....some play in leagues and some are posters on here that do not play leagues. Want proof ? Read posts on here about guys bragging about laying low in a money game trying to reel in a fish.

3. Rules.....a lot of complaints on here concerning 23 limit.....push outs......jump cues ...sandbagging....etc etc . The apa has an answer for that. Masters.

4. Table size. All.leagues are at the mercy of playing on what's available to them. When dub stated that their area plays on 9's ...mine does also at one location you deflect his respond by saying its not real pool. I have 2 answers for that...maaters and the us amateur championship.

5. Speaking of the us amateurs.....played strictly on 9's ....no handicap...mump cues and push outs allowed. In other words....real pool. You have players in this tournament ranging from a players to pro speed.

So you see ...apa offers something for every one at all levels of play . It has formats to remedy every complaint I have heard regarding leagues so I can't understand the resorting to name calling when some one addresses your complaints unless its envy.


One last thing....supporting pro pool..last I heard apa supports women's pro ....i guess they still do.. Then you have mark griffin who supports the men's pros by holding several tournaments. Why he does it is beyond me . Every time he holds one he gets bashed on here concerning payouts and table size and etc etc.


Now I agree that leagues in general and apa in particular is not every ones cup of tea but you cannot dispute the facts that the spa has a format that remedy's every single complaint that you or others like you have made.

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Lo lo, nice post. Not that I dislike league but if they would adopt my 30 rule I'd like it 100% more lol. It seems like a no brainer to me honestly, with the exception of course it would slow down somewhat the need for creation of new teams which of course I also understand is against their business model

Lorider.....I don't hate APA.....but why can't I get a letter also?
It ain't fair......you don't call, you don't write.....:crying:

KissedOut said:

Or maybe they play for fun, not to bolster their self-esteem by mastering a skill that, in it essence, has absolutely no practical value.

Why does it drive you and your ilk crazy that people can just enjoy an activity without making it their life's work? Bowling thrived for a long time on the realization that leagues could be for all levels of players, and people play for FUN! It is the fact that in pool people get derided for playing the game for fun without trying to become "the best they can be". It is game, not the friggin Army for goodness sake!

But hey it is a great way to drive people away from the game, when they have to have the exact same attitude as faintly disreputable people have about it, or they get mocked, made fun of, and derided.

Unfortunately your first sentence is true.

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Great post.