So what is considered a high end cue ?

I have chimed in already a few pages ago...

However in reference to the facebook group, I wanted it to be very specific and not be just high end. Because there are and can be more opinions in the meaning of high end, than premium. Although I do have detractors because there are certain cues I won't allow in the group, and some of them might be considered high end, or premium, but I just don't like some people.

But its a group Sean and I keep kind of clean. We don't want the noise of a full out FS group.. McDermotts, Pechauers, Predators,etc... Its for cues, cues that would normally be in the top 10 active makers, and 10 deceased makers. Although I will let most cues made by deceased makers on, if they are vintage. I won't put a Mali in, but probably a Fedunka.

We have been really good about consistency, which is really what I feel is important for any FS section.

JV

Cornerman said:

High End Cues is the name of a business owned by AZber Ken Kerner. He's owned this business longer than most AZer would ever think about buying a cue. Instead of prattling about what you all think a high end cue is, I'd just let Ken tell me what his thinking is.

And of course it's subjective, as is the term "Monster Cue." But Ken owns High End Cues, so he gets to choose. On Facebook, you'll notice joevan uses a different term (Premium Custom Cues). Maybe Joe can tell us what he defines as a premium custom (which he nicely and loosely defined on that page).

Freddie <~~~ middle ender

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johnnysd said:

Could not disagree with that statement more. Cue ARE functional art. It is what makes them so fun to collect and I will actually just look at pictures of cues for appreciation just like other art.

For original question.

I think there are high end cue makers and high end cues for all cue makers.

Then within the high end cue makers there are a few elite makers that are especially high end such as Balabushka, Gus, and then a tier below to makers like Barry, Hercek, Stroud, Searing

In my view ALL cues from high end makers are high end.

But only some cues from production and lesser makers that are a high end, and then those are because of materials and inlays and the complexity of the cue.

As an example, a high end Predator cue might be the Throne 5. It is a really nice cue, and high end for a predator. It is $1500, but a merry widow from Lambros would be more than that, and a merry widow from Searing would be worth much much more than that.

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Searing is THE top maker. Guys like Showman and Barry are mentioned in the same sentence. Then you have guys like Thomas Wayne, Manzino, Black Boar who are "different" and are the TOP guys in their design.

Showman is the TOP guy in old school design. Barry is right there( there is just something special about Showman designs). Jerry -r- makes a helluva old school cue.

Just my honest opinion
Jason

The great thing about who do you think is high end, who is the best, most accurate, best table saw, can read a micrometer better, and those types of questions, is simply.. opinions vary. For a lot of reasons. But what seems to hold true is in the top 10-15 names of any list, you can find 8 guys that make 90% of the lists...

Work with averages...

JV

classiccues said:

I have chimed in already a few pages ago...

However in reference to the facebook group, I wanted it to be very specific and not be just high end. Because there are and can be more opinions in the meaning of high end, than premium. Although I do have detractors because there are certain cues I won't allow in the group, and some of them might be considered high end, or premium, but I just don't like some people.

But its a group Sean and I keep kind of clean. We don't want the noise of a full out FS group.. McDermotts, Pechauers, Predators,etc... Its for cues, cues that would normally be in the top 10 active makers, and 10 deceased makers. Although I will let most cues made by deceased makers on, if they are vintage. I won't put a Mali in, but probably a Fedunka.

We have been really good about consistency, which is really what I feel is important for any FS section.

JV

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Personal feelings should never keep a cuemaker off a list. They are top or they are not period. I understand if somebody did somebody wrong, but top 10 is top 10
Jason

Personal feelings have no place in an objective list

jasonlaus said:

Personal feelings should never keep a cuemaker off a list. They are top or they are not period. I understand if somebody did somebody wrong, but top 10 is top 10
Jason

Personal feelings have no place in an objective list

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Its not a list.

JV

jasonlaus said:

Searing is THE top maker. Guys like Showman and Barry are mentioned in the same sentence. Then you have guys like Thomas Wayne, Manzino, Black Boar who are "different" and are the TOP guys in their design.

Showman is the TOP guy in old school design. Barry is right there( there is just something special about Showman designs). Jerry -r- makes a helluva old school cue.

Just my honest opinion
Jason

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You should have included Pete T. as far as making a "helluva old school cue"...Pete is in the same sentence as Dennis, John, and Barry as well.

skins said:

I don't know of any Rambo that sold anywhere's near 17K so that would have to be one hellava Rambo.

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I think if Mosconi's Rambow that ran the 526 went up for auction, it would go for more than 17K. Pretty sure I know where it resides, but just saying.

All the best,
H

HawaiianEye said:

Some people with "high-end" cues play "low-end" pool.

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Unfortunately, you have described me I like cues and have collected them to different degrees over the years. I have some production cues that play very well and are relatively expensive. I have a few custom cues from known cue makers that I do not consider to be high end cues although they cost more than the production cues. The rest are what I consider High end. All of the "high end" custom cues I have are good playing cues from makers with a reputation for making good playing cues. Of those some are fancier and more expensive than others. I have a Searing that is not really that fancy but comes with a very heavy price tag. I have a Bender less then half of the searing value but still high end. In general, any custom cue with a value north of $3K is high end in my book.

skins said:

I don't know of any Rambo that sold anywhere's near 17K so that would have to be one hellava Rambo... Now if it were a cue made in Rambo's shop by Ralph Greenleaf or Willie Hoppe under the tutelage of Rambo... well THEN we'd have one fantastic cue!:thumbup:

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That's what I am saying essentially. Made about 1930. Most likely in the Brunswick shop.

Could be one of them. BUT lost to history.


.

skins said:

I don't know of any Rambo that sold anywhere's near 17K so that would have to be one hellava Rambo... Now if it were a cue made in Rambo's shop by Ralph Greenleaf or Willie Hoppe under the tutelage of Rambo... well THEN we'd have one fantastic cue!:thumbup:

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That's what I am saying essentially. Made about 1930. Most likely in the Brunswick shop.

Could be one of them. BUT lost to history.


.

I had Richard Black make me a simple ebony 4-point cue back in 1978. I considered it "high end" and it cost me $175.

I'm in the camp that sticks to the literal definition of the words. High end means the high end of the spectrum of cues from a single maker. For the makers themselves I would use the term top tier.

HawaiianEye said:

What I'm saying is, "high-end is mostly LOOKS and details in workmanship that usually has more to do with LOOKS than it does adding anything to how the cue plays."

That is MY opinion. Other people may have other opinions.

I have had custom cue makers make me cues. I have ordered two from Richard Black, back before he was a LEGEND in cue making.

I asked him what separated his cues from each other in reference to how they played. He told me basically what I just wrote in my first sentence here.

So, I guess he has the same opinion as me.

High-end cues, by the same maker, may have better quality materials than their cheapest cues. I ask that before I buy one. I want the SIMPLEST design with the VERY BEST materials. I have never ordered a custom cue with any type of inlay. Inlays are for looks only. If I want a cue that looks "perfect", with no flaws, to hang on the wall, I'll buy a decal cue with thousands of ornaments on it.

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Touché!
Well said


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TATE said:

If I'm selling it, it's high end. if you're selling it, it's not.

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LOL that's true!


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jasonlaus said:

Searing is THE top maker. Guys like Showman and Barry are mentioned in the same sentence. Then you have guys like Thomas Wayne, Manzino, Black Boar who are "different" and are the TOP guys in their design.

Showman is the TOP guy in old school design. Barry is right there( there is just something special about Showman designs). Jerry -r- makes a helluva old school cue.

Just my honest opinion
Jason

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That is all subjective, which is cool because it's your experience. I do not happen to agree that Searing is the top maker. You also mention some I wouldn't and didn't mention some I would. I guess this is why collections look so different...

If you read skins' view of high end cue and his explanation and examples of such,
he is pretty much nailing the 10 ring dead center (X).......he elucidates very clearly.

High end -anything- is defined by the quality of it's components coupled with it's design and high level of execution.

High End Cue.... hmm. Good question MM

I would say that a high end cue is merely better. An expression of exceptional effort using the best of what is available to a Master of their craft that is very difficult or impossible to replicate. This is what I would term as a High-End Anything.

That being said. I will say what I do not consider to be a high-end anything. A one-off stroke of luck. Rare, sure... valuable, okay... but not a high-end product. High end manufacturers are known for and it is expected of them to produce such things. So someone just racking off piles of garbage for a year or so and then lightning striking with the production of the finest cue ever produced.... maketh naught an High End Cue. Its a freak monster to be sure... but still not produced by a Master, nor expected to be seen again. (be very wary of this in all things)

With all High-end things, there is assurance. Assured quality, attention to detail, performance, uniformity, purity... you get what you pay for (if not then hunt them down). Any one passing them self off as "High-End" should accept the facts about being labeled so.

Anyways... There are graduated permutations for Base model to ultra super premium extravagance.... but if its from a neophyte nutt-hugger that has no clue how to sit the right way on a toilet seat, its crap (and not Scottish). Do your research.

Lesh

mortuarymike-nv said:

In another thread a member said he didn't consider a SW cue a high end cue .
Personally I thought SW cues were a high end cue just because of cost and waiting list .

Are collector cues that sale for thousands is that also a high end cue ?

Allot of cue guys can inlay ivory or some other expensive materials and that doesnt make it a high end cue .

I if I had give a value on the cues I own I would say 35 to 50 K
And the ugliest cue I own is worth the most.

The one cue I thought was high end may not really be that high end of a cue because resale was down on the cue ...

Pre omega cues sale for thousand and the guys who made them made the original SW cues and they are not high end ??

So what makes a cue High end ???

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Someone willing to pay a lot of money for a piece of wood.