So what counts as a long run?

skip100

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the grand scheme of things, anyone who can break open the balls with a legit break shot, run 14, and then keep the run going into a second rack has made a long run.

As for dealing with pool players/experts, once you get into the 40-50+ range that's pretty impressive.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
practicing straight pool in segments equals welling study. If you never learn to 'mix it up' - 40 or 50 will remain impressive. But not purty.
 
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Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good point. I can spread the balls over the table, take BIH and run them about every time. My record doing this on a 9ft diamond is 8 racks, missing out on 9 racks by just a couple of balls. When doing this I don't count balls pocketed ....I count racks completed. It's not 14.1. My record in 14.1 is just over 70. I've had runs of 40 to 50 in match play, but it's not often because the balls are seldom scattered out for easy picking. You have to work the rack. Simply spreading the balls out and shooting them in involves minimal work, imo. It's a good way to get in tune though, provided you pay attention and focus on each shot.

Yes, a great way to get out of a slump. Isn't it called "Equal Offense"? Certainly not 14:1.
 

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
I think as far as the high run board here, it should be noted if the run was in game or practice.
If in game you could start the run at any point of a game.
And as far as a practice run that can be judged either way. Sometimes what I'll do in practice is set up a breakshot and shoot til I miss, then sometimes I'll continue from one from how the Balls lie just to see if how I was playing the rackmout worked. And possibly I'll keep going from there and I don't feel as though that you should be penalized from there. So that's kinda the same principle as the scatter out start method. In my opinion.

I say it's a fair way to start.

Steve
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What I mean is, if I scatter the balls on my table, take ball in hand to begin, and run out, then go into the next rack as normal, does that count?

Or do you have to start with a 14 ball rack and a break shot?


I think you need to start with a break ball as opposed to having them spread out.

True, Mosconi's high run and other tournament runs often start with an open table but it is an open table under game conditions. IOWs, the udder guy didn't blast them with an 8ball break, leave you with the balls well spread, and give you BIH. IMO the only way to simulate a game-like scenario is with a break shot and not with the balls spread wide open. After all, almost anyone can get up and run a wide open table. But with a break shot you're likely to still have to deal with secondary clusters, where the CB landed, and what not. Starting with a wide open table is like spotting yourself the first 14 balls of the run.

Lou Figueroa
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Hey Danny. Can you rephrase that? I'm not sure what you mean.

OK I hope it's not a rhetoric question. Sadly I rarely practice 14.1 any more, so I would say that is why I am open to answer any questions or critique on this forum with others (who keep it positive) - I have not seen any neg post from you - Dan the man so here goes. When I say mixin' it up - record the long or short runs, then go back over and see if it was a positional error or mechanical. Again it's easier to try than to prove it can't be done, learn it all and forget it all equals quiet mind while in competition. I would rather see a 50 ball run that looks easy, instead of a 100 ball run where my opponent is just a great shot maker having many difficult frames. This is a constant whether I am competing or sitting on the sidelines watching and it makes no difference how big a name player or small that is just the ego. Oh and any distance over twenty miles is a long way to run :) adios.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
OK I hope it's not a rhetoric question. Sadly I rarely practice 14.1 any more, so I would say that is why I am open to answer any questions or critique on this forum with others (who keep it positive) - I have not seen any neg post from you - Dan the man so here goes. When I say mixin' it up - record the long or short runs, then go back over and see if it was a positional error or mechanical. Again it's easier to try than to prove it can't be done, learn it all and forget it all equals quiet mind while in competition. I would rather see a 50 ball run that looks easy, instead of a 100 ball run where my opponent is just a great shot maker having many difficult frames. This is a constant whether I am competing or sitting on the sidelines watching and it makes no difference how big a name player or small that is just the ego. Oh and any distance over twenty miles is a long way to run :) adios.

OK, I get what you are saying. I agree that making it look easy is what it is all about.

Let me ask you something else while I've got your attention. I was watching a long run of yours. I don't recall if it is from your CD (which you sent me a copy of a couple of years ago) or from Youtube. I think it was the CD. Anyway, I don't remember if you recommended this outright or if it was something I just saw. You were playing to have 2 key balls near each other, and not just one set up ball and one key ball. The idea, and I think you said it, is that if you have two balls in a good location to be key balls, having two balls there allows you to be more precise in where you can leave the cue ball for the break shot. I've been playing with this in mind and I think it has helped a lot on some racks. Did I understand you right?
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
OK, I get what you are saying. I agree that making it look easy is what it is all about.

Let me ask you something else while I've got your attention. I was watching a long run of yours. I don't recall if it is from your CD (which you sent me a copy of a couple of years ago) or from Youtube. I think it was the CD. Anyway, I don't remember if you recommended this outright or if it was something I just saw. You were playing to have 2 key balls near each other, and not just one set up ball and one key ball. The idea, and I think you said it, is that if you have two balls in a good location to be key balls, having two balls there allows you to be more precise in where you can leave the cue ball for the break shot. I've been playing with this in mind and I think it has helped a lot on some racks. Did I understand you right?

Wait! Stop! Danny has a DVD? I really should've joined AZ years ago. I've missed out on a lot of great things here. Danny, any chance you still have any of those DVDs? If not, maybe someone here would be willing to sell their copy. If so, pm me please.

Brian
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wait! Stop! Danny has a DVD? I really should've joined AZ years ago. I've missed out on a lot of great things here. Danny, any chance you still have any of those DVDs? If not, maybe someone here would be willing to sell their copy. If so, pm me please.

Brian


I'm guessing it's Danny's 351 ball run DVD from around 2014. I think Dennis was handling the sales but I could be wrong about that.

Though the quality is not the best (I think Danny says he used a security camera, lol) it's still a very illuminating run and definitely worth buying. What makes it even more amazing is that he pretty much uses just five pockets, trying to avoid shooting towards a gaffed up up table pocket.

Lou Figueroa
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'm guessing it's Danny's 351 ball run DVD from around 2014. I think Dennis was handling the sales but I could be wrong about that.

Though the quality is not the best (I think Danny says he used a security camera, lol) it's still a very illuminating run and definitely worth buying. What makes it even more amazing is that he pretty much uses just five pockets, trying to avoid shooting towards a gaffed up up table pocket.

Lou Figueroa

Thanks Lou. I'm thinking any high run footage is worth watching for my 14.1 game. My runs are typically spoiled by rattling a simple shot. If I had 5" pockets (or more practice with the tight pockets I currently have) I'm sure I'd finally break the seal on 100 or better....well, I think I'm sure at least. Lol
 

michael4

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think as far as the high run board here, it should be noted if the run was in game or practice.
If in game you could start the run at any point of a game.

I say it's a fair way to start.
Steve

I think "open table" is an OK way to start, but if someone feels guilty about it they can always note how they started on the high run board. When someone runs 20 and below, no one really cares how they started.

I believe new players would more likely start out this way, and the better players would not because they want to challenge themselves and play a more realistic format. In other words, the issue tends to go away automatically as players improve their game.

When I "spread balls" its because I'm lazy and dont like to rack, but I do it in semi-realistic way by rolling most of the balls toward the rack area, allowing clusters to form where you would expect them to be (etc), and rolling the CB toward the middle of the table (not BIH).
 

MalibuMike

Banned
Depends on the table!

On Tight 9 ball pockets like at Hard Times 30 to 40 is a really long run, at more family billiards with close to 5" pockets 100 is an awesome run for me!
 

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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
OK, I get what you are saying. I agree that making it look easy is what it is all about.

Let me ask you something else while I've got your attention. I was watching a long run of yours. I don't recall if it is from your CD (which you sent me a copy of a couple of years ago) or from Youtube. I think it was the CD. Anyway, I don't remember if you recommended this outright or if it was something I just saw. You were playing to have 2 key balls near each other, and not just one set up ball and one key ball. The idea, and I think you said it, is that if you have two balls in a good location to be key balls, having two balls there allows you to be more precise in where you can leave the cue ball for the break shot. I've been playing with this in mind and I think it has helped a lot on some racks. Did I understand you right?

Yes - but with one exception. If one of the two is too low for break ball, then you might want to look for a more specific end game pattern and pocket the ball below your break shot rapido. Of course the more insurance you have residing near and more importantly above your break ball the better.
 
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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Thanks Lou. I'm thinking any high run footage is worth watching for my 14.1 game. My runs are typically spoiled by rattling a simple shot. If I had 5" pockets (or more practice with the tight pockets I currently have) I'm sure I'd finally break the seal on 100 or better....well, I think I'm sure at least. Lol

Yea of course not just 'any high run footage will help you learn 14.1. World class rotation players (shot makers) can stumble through a run of a hundred once in a while. You may see however that once the bet increases or pockets tighten - in some of end game patterns the world class rotation player runs into difficuly (barely surviving cue ball moving too much etc). Unless they have practiced much. Watch players who make it look easy, then practice developing your own style. I once saw Steve lipsky run a hundred and out on a double shimmed diamond table in about thirty min. To this day it is one of the easiest century's I have seen. And as you might guess there was minimal movement with cue ball and end game patterns were What you would expect of a world class 14.1 champ.
 
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Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes - but with one exception. If one of the two is too low for break ball, then you might want to look for a more specific end game pattern and pocket the ball below your break shot rapido. Of course the more insurance you have residing near and more importantly above your break ball the better.

OK, thanks for the tip!
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
I think as far as the high run board here, it should be noted if the run was in game or practice.
If in game you could start the run at any point of a game.
And as far as a practice run that can be judged either way. Sometimes what I'll do in practice is set up a breakshot and shoot til I miss, then sometimes I'll continue from one from how the Balls lie just to see if how I was playing the rackmout worked. And possibly I'll keep going from there and I don't feel as though that you should be penalized from there. So that's kinda the same principle as the scatter out start method. In my opinion.

I say it's a fair way to start.

Steve
I respectfully disagree, its a good idea to make as many similarity's to practicing and competing. To set a goal and have even the slightest reward is in my view to compete. I understand what your saying but again my suggestion is to not put too much emphasis on having an opponent. Belittling the run in any way due to not having an opponent in the chair and ' in a game' is note about the ego. If player wants to state the high run was in a 'game' then that is their business.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Wait! Stop! Danny has a DVD? I really should've joined AZ years ago. I've missed out on a lot of great things here. Danny, any chance you still have any of those DVDs? If not, maybe someone here would be willing to sell their copy. If so, pm me please.

Brian

Its OK, wait ? ! Stop I meant forwrd. Accidents happen:wink: if you really are searching for a copy of my 14.1 instructional DVD no need to have me pm you.you can get a hold of dmglwlsh. Deniss has a copy he can mail you and he posts here in straight pool section. Welcome to the forum bc21.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Yea of course not just 'any high run footage will help you learn 14.1. World class rotation players (shot makers) can stumble through a run of a hundred once in a while. You may see however that once the bet increases or pockets tighten - in some of end game patterns the world class rotation player runs into difficuly (barely surviving cue ball moving too much etc). Unless they have practiced much. Watch players who make it look easy, then practice developing your own style. I once saw Steve lipsky run a hundred and out on a double shimmed diamond table in about thirty min. To this day it is one of the easiest century's I have seen. And as you might guess there was minimal movement with cue ball and end game patterns were What you would expect of a world class 14.1 champ.

Thanks for the reply.:)
 
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