make the pockets 4.5 inches

You need to add wood to the end of the sub-rail and install new cushions to tighten the pockets.
Some people install thicker shims but that makes the table play poorly. If you add wood to the sub-rail you can also correct any pocket angle issues that may be present. That is not an option with shims.
If you search this section of the forum you should find pictures of the work being completed. Especially by table mechanic Glen whose username is realkingcobra.

fastone371 said:

You need to add wood to the end of the sub-rail and install new cushions to tighten the pockets.
Some people install thicker shims but that makes the table play poorly. If you add wood to the sub-rail you can also correct any pocket angle issues that may be present. That is not an option with shims.
If you search this section of the forum you should find pictures of the work being completed. Especially by table mechanic Glen whose username is realkingcobra.

Click to expand...

realkingcobra) Glen Hancock (Based in Washington) 702-927-5689

Older Rail Problems

Check out this link on the what problems can come up on older rails.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=196313

Lovepool said:

Hi

please I want to ask you about the way to make my table's corner pockets 4.5 inches.

my table's pockets are 13 cm and I want to make it the standard size 4.5 inches (11.43 cm) so I need to add 1.57 cm to do it.

(the side pockets are 13.5 cm, is it ok or I need to narrow it also ?


I read about shims and facing but i don't know what it means
can you please explain to me the way to do it in details with pictures or videos ?
and the links of all what i need to order them online.
btw i'll change the felt to simonis cloth.



here is pictures of the pockets

Thanks ...

Click to expand...

You either have a GC4 or a knockoff, either way the castings are not seated to the ends of the rails, that needs to be corrected in order to make sure you even have a chance be the same size in all the corner pockets. Do some research, I've posted a lot of information explaining this subject here on AZ. On my facebook page as well, Glen Hancock.

I think this will cost too much right ?

Worth the cost.
Finding some one to do it correctly is the hardest part.


I don't understand really what the difference between the shims and adding wood the sub-rail.

Adding a piece of high quality, hardwood plywood to the end of the rail is to lengthen it.
Find it in a hobby model store.

The neoprene rubber shim is too protect the wood from ball damage.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pool-Table-Rail-Large-Cushion-Facings-3-16-Thick-/262482274254

Too thick a rubber shim makes the pocket "dead".

Recipe for tightening pockets for:
4 1/2" corner Pockets
5" Side Pockets
Correct Angles If Needed
Add 1/8" high quality hardwood plywood
3/16" Duro 60 high strength neoprene

Corner pocket angles of 141 or 51 degrees
Side pocket: 102 degrees or 12 degrees

Some like 4 3/8" pockets.
Use 3/16" plywood instead of 1/8"

You want Krazy Tight 4" 1/4" pockets?
use 1/4" plywood


what means by correct any pocket angle issues ?!

The correct angles are for ball reaction in the pocket and acceptance of ball. Not being "spit out" or "rattle" between ends.


I think i need more information to try to understand more.

Yes, search the web. PM me.


I didn't understand really what means by castings are not seated to the ends of the rails?

Needs to be No Space between metal and wood. Casting is in correct place next to back/front edge of rail.



WPA Specs:


9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other – where the nose of the cushion changes direction – to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]

mchnhed said:

I think this will cost too much right ?

Worth the cost.
Finding some one to do it correctly is the hardest part.


I don't understand really what the difference between the shims and adding wood the sub-rail.

Adding a piece of high quality plywood to the end of the rail is to lengthen it.

The neoprene rubber shim is too protect the wood from ball damage.

Too thick a rubber shim makes pocket "dead".

Recipe for tightening pockets
4 1/2" corner Pockets
5" Side Pockets
1/8" high quality, hardwood plywood
3/16" Duro 60 high strength neoprene
Corner pocket angles of 141 or 51 degrees
Side pocket: 102 degrees or 12 degrees

Some like 4 3/8" pockets.
Use 3/16" plywood instead of 1/8"

You want Krazy Tight 4" 1/4" pockets?
use 1/4" plywood


what means by correct any pocket angle issues ?!

The correct angles are for ball reaction in the pocket and acceptance of ball. Not being "spit out" or "rattle" between ends.


I think i need more information to try to understand more.

Yes, search the web. PM me.


I didn't understand really what means by castings are not seated to the ends of the rails?

Needs to be No Space between metal and wood. Casting is in correct place next to back/front edge of rail.



WPA Specs:


9. POCKET OPENINGS AND MEASUREMENTS
Only rubber facings of minimum 1/16 [1.5875 mm] to maximum ¼ inch [6.35 mm] thick may be used at pocket jaws. The WPA-preferred maximum thickness for facings is 1/8 inch [3.175 mm]. The facings on both sides of the pockets must be of the same thickness. Facings must be of hard re-enforced rubber glued with strong bond to the cushion and the rail, and adequately fastened to the wood rail liner to prevent shifting. The rubber of the facings should be somewhat harder than that of the cushions.

The pocket openings for pool tables are measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (from pointed lip to pointed lip). This is called mouth.

Corner Pocket Mouth: between 4.5 [11.43 cm] and 4.625 inches [11.75 cm]
Side Pocket Mouth: between 5 [12.7 cm] and 5.125 inches [13.0175 cm]
*The mouth of the side pocket is traditionally ½ inch [1.27 cm] wider than
the mouth of the corner pocket.

Vertical Pocket Angle (Back Draft): 12 degrees minimum to15 degrees maximum.

Horizontal Pocket Cut Angle: The angle must be the same on both sides of a pocket entrance. The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the corner pocket entrance must be 142 degrees (+1). The cut angles of the rubber cushion and its wood backing (rail liner) for both sides of the side pocket entrance must be 104 degrees (+1).

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other – where the nose of the cushion changes direction – to the vertical cut of the slate pocket cut. Shelf includes bevel.

Corner Pocket Shelf: between 1 [2.54 cm] and 2 ¼ inches [5.715 cm]
Side Pocket Shelf: between 0 and .375 inches [.9525 cm]

Click to expand...

Surely, you mean hardwood and not plywood.

BCA Pocket Specs

BCA Pocket Specs

Pocket Openings and Measurements:
Pocket billiard tables: pocket openings are measured at two points - the first being measured between opposing cushion noses where the direction changes into the pocket (tip to tip). This is called the mouth. The second point of measurement is at the narrowest point at the back of the facing. This is called the throat.

Corner Pocket:
Mouth...................................................4 7/8" minimum to 5 1/8" maximum
Throat...................................................4" minimum to 4 1/4" maximum

Side Pocket:
Mouth..................................................5 3/8" minimum to 5 5/8" maximum
Throat..................................................4 3/8" minimum to 4 7/8" maximum

Vertical Pocket Angle 12 +,or - 1 degree

Shelf: The shelf is measured from the center of the imaginary line that goes from one side of the mouth to the other where the nose of the cushion changes direction to the center of the vertical cut of the slate pocket radius.

Corner Pocket........................................1 5/8" minimum to 1 7/8" maximum
Side Pocket............................................0" minimum to 3/8" maximum

You are correct Sir

rexus31 said:

Surely, you mean hardwood and not plywood.

Click to expand...

I checked.......

High Quality, Hardwood Ply
Like the kind you can get at a Hobby Model Store.

I know it needs to be hardwood.
Not cheap ply from Home Depot

See comments from RKC
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=138420

Plywood has the strength. Solid wood might split?

Here is a picture of my GCIV rail end.
Looks like solid wood I don't see any layers.
Maple Wood?

PS: Not My Work!!!

rexus31 said:

Surely, you mean hardwood and not plywood.

Click to expand...

and Don't Call Me Shirley!

mchnhed said:

and Don't Call Me Shirley!

Click to expand...

LMAO!

The reason I posted was because the mechanic that extended my rails used poplar, I think. All the pics I've seen posted on AZB of rail extensions seem to also use a hardwood of some sort. If hardwood ply works, great! I just learned something new.

rexus31 said:

LMAO!

The reason I posted was because the mechanic that extended my rails used poplar, I think. All the pics I've seen posted on AZB of rail extensions seem to also use a hardwood of some sort. If hardwood ply works, great! I just learned something new.

Click to expand...

As you can see my rail extension looks to be a solid wood.
Maybe both could work, but I like the idea of high density ply.
RKC said the work looks like Ernesto's here in LA LA Land.

rexus31 said:

LMAO!

The reason I posted was because the mechanic that extended my rails used poplar, I think. All the pics I've seen posted on AZB of rail extensions seem to also use a hardwood of some sort. If hardwood ply works, great! I just learned something new.

Click to expand...

Here's some more extension work....
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=251071