8 ball is like a game of chess

Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
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I've heard 8 ball and chess are similar because of your strategy of play.
That's somewhat true but there's more strategy in this version of 8 ball.

Here's a chess game scenario for this version of 8 ball: ....This Checkmate is the ball count for the pockets.

You have 2 balls in both the foot end table pockets. I have 3 balls and 2 balls in those same 2 end pockets.

You rattle a ball and it hangs deep in one of the pockets, but you've left yourself perfect shape on the eight.

I'm on the 8, with a shallow cut in the pocket that's holding 3 of my balls, but instead of cutting, I bank the 8.

The 8 slow rolls across the table and knocks your last ball into the pocket. The 8 ball is now inside the jaws.

You too are on the 8 ball. The CB has rolled up table and you have to hit the 8, but are you gonna' win? No.

Just like chess it's Checkmate.. Why? Click this link... http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/Home/1-2-eight

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336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
The different games

The different games definitely call for different skill sets but going safe and getting the next shot is central to all of them if you can pull it off. You just have to know when to do it and until then you might have to make a few balls.

One Pocket is also my choice of poison.
 
E

Ekojasiloop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Eight ball seems like the furthest game from chess there is. I suppose there is an occasional interesting game, but as far as I can tell eight ball consists of either a player runnng out on his first shot, or the first player dogging it on his first shot and the incoming player running a hanger layout. That's it, that pretty much sums up the entirety of eight ball.
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
Ekojasiloop said:
Eight ball seems like the furthest game from chess there is. I suppose there is an occasional interesting game, but as far as I can tell eight ball consists of either a player runnng out on his first shot, or the first player dogging it on his first shot and the incoming player running a hanger layout. That's it, that pretty much sums up the entirety of eight ball.
Click to expand...

I would say is 8 ball is much closer to chess than rotation games are. In 8 ball you have strategy such as run out order, changing the order if you get slightly out of line, deciding to shoot a low percentage shot or attempt a safe. In rotation you have 1 way to set up your run, by the number on the ball. Well I guess you always have the safety option for strategy in rotation.
 
336Robin

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Shoot stop

There can be a lot of shoot stop in 8-ball which helps novice players do more and 8 ball can be a run out game but the clusters through a monkey wrench into the business and it can be a lot of strategy deciding who and when the break outs occur. I talked a friend of mine into playing some and after he and I battled it out for awhile he liked the game because of the strategy involved. Open table after the break can sure make a game go quick. Makes you wonder if a big break is the right thing to do.
 
Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
.
I've heard 8 ball and chess are similar because of your strategy of play.
That's somewhat true but there's more strategy in this version of 8 ball.

Here's a chess game scenario for this version of 8 ball: ....This Checkmate is the ball count for the pockets.

You have 2 balls in both the foot end table pockets. I have 3 balls and 2 balls in those same 2 end pockets.

You rattle a ball and it hangs deep in one of the pockets, but you've left yourself perfect shape on the eight.

I'm on the 8, with a shallow cut in the pocket that's holding 3 of my balls, but instead of cutting, I bank the 8.

The 8 slow rolls across the table and knocks your last ball into the pocket. The 8 ball is now inside the jaws.

You too are on the 8 ball. The CB has rolled up table and you have to hit the 8, but are you gonna' win? No.

Just like chess it's Checkmate.. Why? Click this link... http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/Home/1-2-eight
.
Click to expand...

OK guys let's try another scenario.. Unlike a regular game of 8 ball, this game only allows the 8 go into pockets that contain 1 or 2 of your own ball group.
Your opponents 7 ball group has to do the same thing. If a pocket is empty, or holds 3 or more of your balls, you can not pocket your 8 ball in that pocket.

This game is closer to chess, where you eliminate chess pieces. In this game you can eliminate an opponents ball, and by doing so eliminate a pocket.

Scenario 2: Let's say your opponent has a pocket holding 3 balls... He can not pocket the 8 in a pocket with 3 of his balls. That is a dead pocket for him.
He has another pocket holding 2 balls. He can pocket the 8 in the pocket with 2 of his balls, and there are 4 more pockets with a potential for the 8 ball.

He has 5 balls in 2 pockets.. 3 in a dead pocket to him, and two in a live pocket for the 8. The 4 empty pockets can become a live pocket if a ball pockets.

You can't foul, but you can bump one of his balls on a combo into the pocket holding 2 balls. That will eliminate both the live pocket and another pocket.

He now has 2 pockets with 3 balls and 1 ball left for a pocket. I bet you get a rise out of him when his pocket for the 8 and 2 more went to only 1 pocket.

There are more scenarios that I could mention. Just like eliminating chessmen, you can eliminate pockets, by eliminating the opponents balls.. Play well.

.
 
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9Ballr

9Ballr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
.
I've heard 8 ball and chess are similar because of your strategy of play.
That's somewhat true, but there's more strategy in this version of 8 ball.

Here's a chess game scenario for this version of 8 ball: ....This Checkmate is the ball count for the pockets.

You have 2 balls in both the foot end table pockets. I have 3 balls and 2 balls in those same 2 end pockets.

You rattle a ball and it hangs deep in one of the pockets, but you've left yourself perfect shape on the eight.

I'm on the 8, with a shallow cut in the pocket that's holding 3 of my balls, but instead of cutting, I bank the 8.

The 8 slow rolls across the table and knocks your last ball into the pocket. The 8 ball is now inside the jaws.

You too are on the 8 ball. The CB has rolled up table and you have to hit the 8, but are you gonna' win? No.

Just like chess it's Checkmate.. Why? Click this link... http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/Home/1-2-eight

.
Click to expand...


I hear this comparison often and it's typically done by people who don't know anything about chess or are weak chess players. (under 1600 or so)
Very lame, quite frankly.
In chess you always have a move after the opponent moves.
In pool you don't shoot immediately after your opponent shoots.
Sometimes they run the table and there's nothing you can do about it.
In chess the position on the boar is there because YOU put the pieces there. It's not an accident and you only have your self to blame.
They don't get randomly thrown all over the board like in pool after a break.

Doing this comparison between two things that have nothing in common is as frustrating as when the journalist sluts are comparing this and that to a game of chess and they probably just barely know the rules, if that much.

It's silly at best.
Just because you have to think ahead doesn't make chess all that special.
You have to think ahead when you're driving, walking, running, doing your job etc.
Matter of fact in chess you often don't calculate all that many moves ahead, usually just in tactics you do.
Capablanca famously said he only thinks one move ahead.....he wasn't too bad of a chess player and I am a Grandmaster.
Have been a GM for about 15 years and play hundreds of blitz games a month and dozens of standard games on ICC. Not to mention OTC (over the board) games and tournaments.
 
Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
9Ballr said:
I hear this comparison often and it's typically done by people who don't know anything about chess or are weak chess players. (under 1600 or so)
Very lame, quite frankly.
In chess you always have a move after the opponent moves.
In pool you don't shoot immediately after your opponent shoots.
Sometimes they run the table and there's nothing you can do about it.
In chess the position on the boar is there because YOU put the pieces there. It's not an accident and you only have your self to blame.
They don't get randomly thrown all over the board like in pool after a break.

Doing this comparison between two things that have nothing in common is as frustrating as when the journalist sluts are comparing this and that to a game of chess and they probably just barely know the rules, if that much.

It's silly at best.
Just because you have to think ahead doesn't make chess all that special.
You have to think ahead when you're driving, walking, running, doing your job etc.
Matter of fact in chess you often don't calculate all that many moves ahead, usually just in tactics you do.
Capablanca famously said he only thinks one move ahead.....he wasn't too bad of a chess player and I am a Grandmaster.
Have been a GM for about 15 years and play hundreds of blitz games a month and dozens of standard games on ICC. Not to mention OTC (over the board) games and tournaments.
Click to expand...

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Wow! Guess I should've called this thread... 8 ball is like a game of chess for people who don't have a f--n' clue about how to play chess.

.
 
jamnut

jamnut

Underwater Tiger
Silver Member
From the Onion:

chess.jpg
 
E

Ekojasiloop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fastone371 said:
I would say is 8 ball is much closer to chess than rotation games are. In 8 ball you have strategy such as run out order, changing the order if you get slightly out of line, deciding to shoot a low percentage shot or attempt a safe. In rotation you have 1 way to set up your run, by the number on the ball. Well I guess you always have the safety option for strategy in rotation.
Click to expand...

Eight ball bugs me is the truth. I'm actually surprised we don't hear more of the players complain about it, I suppose they don't see it as bad of a game as I do. It's the most break dependent game in my opinion, and when I say that I mean just take the aspect of making balls on the break or not out of it, whoever gets a couple of good layouts over the other guy wins. Nine ball the balls tend to be open more so this disparity doesn't happen as much.

Players are forced to run even out when it's triple tough and they're not even the favorite to get out, and then they don't get out (because they weren't really supposed to) and the other guy has like the most hanger layout in history and will win the game every time even if he dogs three straight in balls.

It's way too break dependent (most games are though), but it's also very layout dependent which affects short races big time I think, and guys win games when they haven't made good shots in the game at all (first inning after failed attempt at a tough out) way too often in my opinion and when a three year old could win the game. Just by far the worst game and I don't see any comparison to chess at all I mean it's a total break fest of a game. If chess were 100% about the opening move I suppose I'd agree.

In short, if I had to bet a million on a b player to beat svb in a single game, but I got to pick the game I'm picking 8 ball and I'm probably just under even money.
 
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9Ballr

9Ballr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
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Wow! Guess I should've called this thread... 8 ball is like a game of chess for people who don't have a f--n' clue about how to play chess.

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Click to expand...



Certainly would have been a more accurate description - if that's what you're after.
 
U

us820

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Advanced level (strong 7 and up) and 5 and under 8 ball are two completely different games.
 
Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
.
I've heard 8 ball and chess are similar because of your strategy of play.
That's somewhat true but there's more strategy in this version of 8 ball.

Here's a chess game scenario for this version of 8 ball: ....This Checkmate is the ball count for the pockets.

You have 2 balls in both the foot end table pockets. I have 3 balls and 2 balls in those same 2 end pockets.

You rattle a ball and it hangs deep in one of the pockets, but you've left yourself perfect shape on the eight.

I'm on the 8, with a shallow cut in the pocket that's holding 3 of my balls, but instead of cutting, I bank the 8.

The 8 slow rolls across the table and knocks your last ball into the pocket. The 8 ball is now inside the jaws.

You too are on the 8 ball. The CB has rolled up table and you have to hit the 8, but are you gonna' win? No.

Just like chess it's Checkmate.. Why? Click this link... http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/Home/1-2-eight.
Click to expand...
In blue.. Why did I bank the 8 ball when it was an easy cut? Why did I slow roll the bank?

I would have lost the game if the 8 ball goes into any pocket that is holding 3 of my balls.
Slow rolling the 8 into your ball was a move because that was the 3rd ball in your pocket.

Check out the game rules link above... Play well.

.
 
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Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
.
I've heard 8 ball and chess are similar because of your strategy of play.
That's somewhat true but there's more strategy in this version of 8 ball.

Here's a chess game scenario for this version of 8 ball: ....This Checkmate is the ball count for the pockets.

You have 2 balls in both the foot end table pockets. I have 3 balls and 2 balls in those same 2 end pockets.

You rattle a ball and it hangs deep in one of the pockets, but you've left yourself perfect shape on the eight.

I'm on the 8, with a shallow cut in the pocket that's holding 3 of my balls, but instead of cutting, I bank the 8.

The 8 slow rolls across the table and knocks your last ball into the pocket. The 8 ball is now inside the jaws.

You too are on the 8 ball. The CB has rolled up table and you have to hit the 8, but are you gonna' win? No.

Just like chess it's Checkmate.. Why? Click this link... http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/Home/1-2-eight

.
Click to expand...

Ralph Kramden said:
OK guys let's try another scenario.. Unlike a regular game of 8 ball, this game only allows the 8 go into pockets that contain 1 or 2 of your own ball group.
Your opponents 7 ball group has to do the same thing. If a pocket is empty, or holds 3 or more of your balls, you can not pocket your 8 ball in that pocket.

This game is closer to chess, where you eliminate chess pieces. In this game you can eliminate an opponents ball, and by doing so eliminate a pocket.

Scenario 2: Let's say your opponent has a pocket holding 3 balls... He can not pocket the 8 in a pocket with 3 of his balls. That is a dead pocket for him.
He has another pocket holding 2 balls. He can pocket the 8 in the pocket with 2 of his balls, and there are 4 more pockets with a potential for the 8 ball.

He has 5 balls in 2 pockets.. 3 in a dead pocket to him, and two in a live pocket for the 8. The 4 empty pockets can become a live pocket if a ball pockets.

You can't foul, but you can bump one of his balls on a combo into the pocket holding 2 balls. That will eliminate both the live pocket and another pocket.

He now has 2 pockets with 3 balls and 1 ball left for a pocket. I bet you get a rise out of him when his pocket for the 8 and 2 more went to only 1 pocket.

There are more scenarios that I could mention. Just like eliminating chessmen, you can eliminate pockets, by eliminating the opponents balls.. Play well.
Click to expand...

Another game scenario, playing the same shot having 3 different pocket situations.

The 8 ball can't be made in any empty pocket........... or I lose the game...
The 8 ball can't be made in pockets holding 3 balls....or l lose the game...
The 8 ball can only be made in pockets that are holding 1 or 2 of my balls.
I need as many pockets as possible, as this game limits your pockets for the 8 ball.

Scenario: My solid ball is 2" from the side pocket and the pocket is empty.
Your stripe ball is 6" behind my ball and directly in line with the side pocket.
I need as many pockets as possible early in the game, So I pocket my ball.

Same Scenario: Both balls above are in the same positions near the side pocket.
I now have 3 balls, that are in 3 different pockets & are Live pockets for the 8 ball.
My solid ball blocks the striped and if it combos & I'll have 4 Live pockets for the 8.
Why pocket my ball now. It blocks your ball. It's a duck if I'll need it for shape later.

Same Scenario: Both balls above in the same positions & I have 2 balls in the side.
I'm not going to pocket my ball. If I do I'll lose the side pocket with 2 balls for the 8.
Not only do I lose a pocket, I lose a ball for another pocket where I can make the 8.
You think the same. If you combo my ball, there are 3 solid balls in a Dead pocket.
My choice is to get my ball outta' there, and maybe take your striped along with it.
 
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Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
Onother game scenario, playing the same shot having 3 different pocket situations.

The 8 ball can't be made in any empty pocket........... or I lose the game...
The 8 ball can't be made in pockets holding 3 balls....or l lose the game...
The 8 ball can only be made in pockets that are holding 1 or 2 of my balls.
I need as many pockets as possible, as this game limits your pockets for the 8 ball.

Scenario: My solid ball is 2" from the side pocket and the pocket is empty.
Your stripe ball is 6" behind my ball and directly in line with the side pocket.
I need as many pockets as possible early in the game, So I pocket my ball.

Same Scenario: Both balls above are in the same positions near the side pocket.
I now have 3 balls, that are in 3 different pockets & are Live pockets for the 8 ball.
My solid ball blocks the striped and if it combos & I'll have 4 Live pockets for the 8.
Why pocket my ball now. It blocks your ball. It's a duck if I'll need it for shape later.

Same Scenario: Both balls above in the same positions & I have 2 balls in the side.
I'm not going to pocket my ball. If I do I'll lose the side pocket with 2 balls for the 8.
Not only do I lose a pocket, I lose a ball for another pocket where I can make the 8.
You think the same. If you combo my ball, there are 3 solid balls in a Dead pocket.
My choice is to get my ball outta' there, and maybe take your striped along with it.
Click to expand...

The Game Rules have been edited and shorted for clarity. Take a look.... http://sites.google.com/site/poolandbilliard/Home/1-2-eight

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KRJ

KRJ

Support UKRAINE
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
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Wow! Guess I should've called this thread... 8 ball is like a game of chess for people who don't have a f--n' clue about how to play chess.

.
Click to expand...

Nah, you were right.

8-ball is a LOT like chess in certain ways. Sometimes I have to sacrifice a "ball" to try and win, sometimes I block "you" from being able to shoot one of your balls, or push a ball in your path so you can't move that ball into a pocket. I play safe, and hide when needed, and wait till later to make my move, just like in chess. And sometimes I set up the balls into position, and don't make any until they are all in place, and then make my move.

If you chose the wrong pattern in 8-ball, it's a lot harder to win, and most times you will come up short. Thus, you can shoot lights out, but my god, if you don't find the key ball, find a pocket for the 8, and don't shoot the clusters at the right time and with the right ball and makind sure you have an insurance ball, you gonna lost more then you win. You know, kinda like CHESS :)

And if idiot Chess "masters" don't like it, all the more better :p
 
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