Why is it so difficult to install Simonis?

Videos and instructions won't help as much as training and skills...


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This is what I was complaining about last fall, professional install doesn't mean professional install! For every 1 super awesome table mechanics there's at least 100 so called professionals that have no clue! Not all table mechanics are created equal!!!!

Wieguns said:

I'm in the Twin Cities, MN area, and I have had 3 tables recovered by 3 different company's who sell and install Simonis. Every one of the jobs has required me to have them re-work rails, or the bed due, to waves introduced by improper install. This last one was the premier billiards store in the Twin Cites. I purchased a new $5k table with 860 HR, table was installed this past Wednesday, crew coming out next Friday to re-work the cloth on it.

There are videos and instructions all over the place on proper install, yet all these folks I seem to work with cannot get it right. I send them links to website and the installation videos, and it doesn't seem to matter.

Is there any sort of certification one can look for when searching for a mechanic that can guarantee a quality job with Simonis? Company's shouldn't be allowed to sell it if they can't install it.

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lol..... Do you want Mike Harrison ( Trojan company’s condom developer and chief principle scientist ) to come install his product each time you use it? I'm guessing no..... lol Just kidding... I have installed Simonis a few time with no troubles....

The first thing to ask anyone about installing Simonis Cloth is: Which way do you stretch it first? If they don't say the index stretch, you may want to move on. Knowing the stretch index is very important, it tells you how far to stretch the cloth. I have found it to vary quite a bit from bolt to bolt and color to color.

The next question is which way they stretch it and if its not from side to side, they have no idea....

Ask them if they own/have seen and studied the Simonis installation DVDs??

Good Luck!

Trent from Toledo

I only use Simonis cloth on all of my restorations:

https://www.facebook.com/pg/toledopooltables/photos/?tab=albums

Wieguns said:

I'm in the Twin Cities, MN area, and I have had 3 tables recovered by 3 different company's who sell and install Simonis. Every one of the jobs has required me to have them re-work rails, or the bed due, to waves introduced by improper install. This last one was the premier billiards store in the Twin Cites. I purchased a new $5k table with 860 HR, table was installed this past Wednesday, crew coming out next Friday to re-work the cloth on it.

There are videos and instructions all over the place on proper install, yet all these folks I seem to work with cannot get it right. I send them links to website and the installation videos, and it doesn't seem to matter.

Is there any sort of certification one can look for when searching for a mechanic that can guarantee a quality job with Simonis? Company's shouldn't be allowed to sell it if they can't install it.

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Nope, its easy to install if they watch and learn from the DVDs i made for Simonis to show the world how to correctly install their cloth....its childs play if you know what you're doing....LMAO....but what do i know....I'm just a furniture installer according to some here on AZB....and there's 100s of mechanics just as good as i am....LOLOLOLOLOLOL

You should be glad you didn't hire an Oregon pool table mechanic....LOL..... lots of sprayglue and a few staples, even the feather strips are glued in....LOL

RKC, the Simonis Installation DVDS ( https://www.seyberts.com/pool-table-repair-supplies/simonis-bed-cloth-installation-training-dvd/ ) are a great resource and I appreciate you and Jay making them for Simonis. I got the chance to work with and watch Jay install a bedcloth as well.

The method is SIMPLE and very, very repeatable. Anyone who has some basic skills and can follow the directions shown on the video can have better results than most "installers" that the original poster is talking about.

Anyone who does not understand the level of mechanic you are, simply does not know anything about pool tables. I have learned so much from you just chatting on the phone and I anticipate getting to work with you out in the field one day.

I appreciate that you and the few other old school mechanics out there are trying very hard to set a standard in Billiard Mechanics for the rest of the industry to follow! I work very hard in educating my clients on what they are getting for their money. I work very hard on every project I take on and my end goal is to make the table the best I can. I have a very happy clientele!

Much respect.

Trent from Toledo

Just a thought, and maybe RKC will comment, it may have to do with how much experience they have in installation.

Tim Tonjum with Tables Plus will get it done right for you. Class Act.

Pushout said:

Just a thought, and maybe RKC will comment, it may have to do with how much experience they have in installation.

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I've seen a lot of proud work done by first time installers after watching and studying the Simonis installation DVDs to know that their first time work turned out better than a lot of full time installers work.

Pushout said:

Just a thought, and maybe RKC will comment, it may have to do with how much experience they have in installation.

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I've seen to many installers with well over 10 years experience that have no clue what they're doing other than getting the nob done anyway they can and never forgetting to get paid for what they DID do.

Glen,
I hope you agree that some professionals are crap! While others are top notch! That being said maybe something should be set up like the instructors have??????? Some sorta certification that could qualify the mechanics on quality and consistency and maybe different levels of difficulty to finally reach custom table mechanics. This could possibly make the mechanics net worth higher, maybe make a retail store installer a little more valuable all the while us the consumer truly get what we expect! Maybe this already exists, maybe there's already a list of great table mechanics, I smell cash opportunities!!!

mvp said:

Glen,
I hope you agree that some professionals are crap! While others are top notch! That being said maybe something should be set up like the instructors have??????? Some sorta certification that could qualify the mechanics on quality and consistency and maybe different levels of difficulty to finally reach custom table mechanics. This could possibly make the mechanics net worth higher, maybe make a retail store installer a little more valuable all the while us the consumer truly get what we expect! Maybe this already exists, maybe there's already a list of great table mechanics, I smell cash opportunities!!!

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I am pretty sure RKC has already done this before with Simonis. The key is getting people to take the time to go!

It really comes down to the fact that people need to educate themselves before they make a purchase or hire someone. It only takes a few phone calls and some internet research. A call to Simonis is a great start, Felice over there knows who is who and what is what. She can recommend you to either someone in your area or someone near that you can call to get a reference for someone in your area.

The mechanics section on here has a listing of mechanics by area with phone numbers and photos of completed work.

Personally, I am MUCH more expensive than the locals in my area. I do not haggle and am busy all the time. My work speaks for itself and my clients are always happy.

People who take pride in their work and have a passion for what they do is what it takes for solid results. So many people out there are just trying to make a living and they are not working on their skillset. Trying to be better all the time leads to being better and making more money.

I am very confident in my ability to install Simonis cloth and it came from TRYING. I bought the DVDS and studied them. I had the chance to sub-contract Jay Spielberg (RKC AN JAY MADE THE INSTALLATION DVDS) to install a restoration of mine in his area. It was worth every penny to get a chance to learn from him. I also started working with Diamond Billiards and spending half a day watching 2 different people at the factory installing Simonis using the glue down method, both did it a little different and I learned it.... Having known the stretch pattern made it pretty easy, but, the glue down method is different than stapling it.

Finding the right person to work for you is not hard, it just takes patience and research!!!

Trent from Toledo

https://www.facebook.com/pg/toledopo...os/?tab=albums

It's clear you have more faith in people working on pool tables than i do, and yet i do know there are a few that do great work out there, unfortunately they only represent their area of work, and not this industry as a whole because as it's been said a million times, working on pool tables is not rocket science, which does little to explain why there are so many people working on pool tables today that do nothing but turn'n burn the jobs left and right....and an endless supply of customers willing to keep them employed. And by the way, even rocket scientists don't work on their OWN pool tables, and neither do nuclear physicists, i know first hand as I've done the work for both.....so that should say something in itself!!!

I just followed the instructions here for Simonis when I did my install;

https://www.pooldawg.com/article/pooldawg-library/installing-your-pool-table-cloth

And it turned out great. It has been on my home table for 10 years, including one move/reinstall. Cloth is getting warn out from play, but it has never come loose or had any of the problems you often see on pool hall tables.

Simonis was tricky to stretch (compared to cheaper cloth), but if you have two handy people, you can get it correctly no problem.

eastcoast_chris said:

I just followed the instructions here for Simonis when I did my install;

https://www.pooldawg.com/article/pooldawg-library/installing-your-pool-table-cloth

And it turned out great. It has been on my home table for 10 years, including one move/reinstall. Cloth is getting warn out from play, but it has never come loose or had any of the problems you often see on pool hall tables.

Simonis was tricky to stretch (compared to cheaper cloth), but if you have two handy people, you can get it correctly no problem.

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And just think about how much better you'll be able to install your next Simonis cloth now that Simonis has replaced those instructions with the correct method of installing cloth.

TomInFaribo said:

Tim Tonjum with Tables Plus will get it done right for you. Class Act.

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Tim set my table up and it plays great(at least I think it does?)! He used glue (rolled on with paint roller) on the edges to secure the cloth. No clue if it's right or wrong but seems to be holding up well.

WOW< Pooldawg ! It looks like they copied the "Brunswick" way to install cloth....

I think that it would be a great idea for Simonis to require all authorized dealers to purchase the DVDS and MAKE their installers use that method of installation. In the end it would save them time and money, not to mention their reputation.


Trent

realkingcobra said:

And just think about how much better you'll be able to install your next Simonis cloth now that Simonis has replaced those instructions with the correct method of installing cloth.

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RKC - Does your video address redoing the rail cloth too? I redid the cloth on my Diamond 9 foot pro-am, but I deferred the rails because I'm a wussy. :smile: Seems like that would be hard and I know nothing about rails. I'm sure I'd jack those up unless its pretty straight forward.