I can't seem to find any good information on learning how to play position in 8ball. I'm finding it really hard to maximize my target zone, and focus on getting on the right side of the ball, as well as playing through a zone, as opposed to across it. Is there any literature out there that focuses on specifically on this topic, because I'm having a really tough time.
Need Help With Positional Play
- Thread starter tonythetiger583
- Start date
I think this is the most comprehensive book you'll find on the game of 8 ball.
http://www.seyberts.com/products/Phil_Capelle_Play_Your_Best_Eight_Ball_Book-307-310.html
http://www.seyberts.com/products/Phil_Capelle_Play_Your_Best_Eight_Ball_Book-307-310.html
Phil's book will be very helpful.
I have no idea what your level of play is but regardless of your level, you should also always work on your ball pocketing skills. That will make you a better position player. Many players overlook the importance of that relationship.
Once you become a strong and consistent ball-pocketer, your eyes will begin to open up to position strategies. There's a certain confidence that comes with being a good ball-pocketer that helps you to become aware of things on the table that you never realized before.
I have no idea what your level of play is but regardless of your level, you should also always work on your ball pocketing skills. That will make you a better position player. Many players overlook the importance of that relationship.
Once you become a strong and consistent ball-pocketer, your eyes will begin to open up to position strategies. There's a certain confidence that comes with being a good ball-pocketer that helps you to become aware of things on the table that you never realized before.
I agree with Ms. Crimi but you might want to take a look at this staring @ 1:43.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2gcgqUt00w&list=PLlw7cNe9koP3oVpqpqbAebe39gwkN48tI
Good Luck with your endeavor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2gcgqUt00w&list=PLlw7cNe9koP3oVpqpqbAebe39gwkN48tI
Good Luck with your endeavor.
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It's not one or the other...
I have a little different approach than many instructors.
Since one hope to pocket and play position with one stroke of the cue, why separate the learning of each?
I've seen hundreds of players over the past sixty years who pocket balls pretty well and when they start learning position struggle to pocket balls.
I didn't always teach this way, but I've found it effective to teach cue ball control at the same time as pocketing balls. You simply pay attention to what the cue ball does when pocketing balls and work from there...in other words start simple. Begin with explaining how contact between cue ball and object ball affects both, and the factors of speed and spin. Demonstrate this and then put the student to work.
I have a little different approach than many instructors.
Since one hope to pocket and play position with one stroke of the cue, why separate the learning of each?
I've seen hundreds of players over the past sixty years who pocket balls pretty well and when they start learning position struggle to pocket balls.
I didn't always teach this way, but I've found it effective to teach cue ball control at the same time as pocketing balls. You simply pay attention to what the cue ball does when pocketing balls and work from there...in other words start simple. Begin with explaining how contact between cue ball and object ball affects both, and the factors of speed and spin. Demonstrate this and then put the student to work.
Donny's post is a good one. The OP has no idea if he even has a decent stroke or not...and for whatever reason, doesn't want to take a lesson from a qualified instructor to find out. There's only two ways to miss...line up poorly, or stroke poorly. I find the latter to be the cause of most maladies on the pool table. Many students who come to me with what they believe are "aiming" issues, can't move the cuestick in a straight line...especially under pressure. Fix the stroke flaws, and most aiming problems go away. Like Donny said, natural angle and natural roll are the first things to learn...then tangent line stun shots, and draw shots are next. That gives player a basic understanding of why things happen on the table the way they do, and how to correctly predict CB path. Playing position becomes a lot more simple after that.
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
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Phil's other book "Play Your Best Pool" covers his principles of position. That is good stuff!
Not an instructor, but I'll weigh in. I like to break down positional play into 4 simple steps, and it's something I refer to as POMA.
1. Plan
2. Observe
3. Memorize
4. Adjust
You should start by planning the path of the CB on every single shot. Even when there is only one ball left on the table. Obvious exception would be stop shots. Other than that, however, start by picking a specific spot you want the CB to end on. Going to a rail (or more)? Pick specific spots on the rail you want (or think) the CB needs to contact. If you're just starting out, you're going to be wrong...a lot. But you'll find with time, you'll start becoming more and more accurate.
The next step is to observe exactly what happened. Did the CB go where you thought it would?
Thirdly, you must memorize the results of the shot. Good or bad, add it to your memory bank.
Finally, and this is more geared towards practice sessions where you can set the shot up again, adjust. If you were wrong, then make adjustments until you get it right.
1. Plan
2. Observe
3. Memorize
4. Adjust
You should start by planning the path of the CB on every single shot. Even when there is only one ball left on the table. Obvious exception would be stop shots. Other than that, however, start by picking a specific spot you want the CB to end on. Going to a rail (or more)? Pick specific spots on the rail you want (or think) the CB needs to contact. If you're just starting out, you're going to be wrong...a lot. But you'll find with time, you'll start becoming more and more accurate.
The next step is to observe exactly what happened. Did the CB go where you thought it would?
Thirdly, you must memorize the results of the shot. Good or bad, add it to your memory bank.
Finally, and this is more geared towards practice sessions where you can set the shot up again, adjust. If you were wrong, then make adjustments until you get it right.
I could be wrong, but I got the impression from his post that he is not 'seeing' what to do. I remember when I was first learning position; there were two main issues in my mind: One was where the cb went after it hit the ob, which was pretty easy to figure out with a little practice. The big issue for me was how to decide where I wanted it to land and the path I wanted it to take to get there. The second one is what I got from the OP's post.
You look at a table covered with balls and it feels overwhelming as to how to figure out what to do.
I have never seen a player who was a strong ball-pocketer who couldn't figure out some basic position patterns. Knowing you can pocket the ball gives you a certain freedom to focus on the table. However, I have seen players who were strong ball-pocketers who didn't want to do the work to figure out position patterns, but that was their choice and not because they couldn't do it.
You look at a table covered with balls and it feels overwhelming as to how to figure out what to do.
I have never seen a player who was a strong ball-pocketer who couldn't figure out some basic position patterns. Knowing you can pocket the ball gives you a certain freedom to focus on the table. However, I have seen players who were strong ball-pocketers who didn't want to do the work to figure out position patterns, but that was their choice and not because they couldn't do it.
Triangle zone position, or 3 sided zone position
Use your track lines to put yourself into the long or short side, or high and low side, and or both
It does not get any easier than that, all visual and little brain power required.
When cutting across play the cue ball longer, it helps to keep you out of trouble.
If you can't go longer play underneath, most times you have to use a lay up or use 2 rails and out, if possible,,, rarely do you need the third rail, if you do then use it.
Use your track lines to put yourself into the long or short side, or high and low side, and or both
It does not get any easier than that, all visual and little brain power required.
When cutting across play the cue ball longer, it helps to keep you out of trouble.
If you can't go longer play underneath, most times you have to use a lay up or use 2 rails and out, if possible,,, rarely do you need the third rail, if you do then use it.
SmoothStroke's post is most helpful and describes shooting position for three of your object balls at once (that create a triangular shape between them) so you have a chance to shoot multiple shots if you roll long or short of your intended exact position for the cue ball.
Here's a runout 8-Ball "quiz" I made that most players I show get "wrong" the first few tries. There are many ways to shoot position for any given shot but this will help you stick to shorter, easier paths for many shots:
http://billiards.about.com/od/ThinkAbout/ss/How-To-Select-An-Eight-Ball-Run.htm
Read the whole two-part article and seriously consider it. I see APA 7's and 8's doing this one "wrong" right in front of me when I present it to them.
Here's a runout 8-Ball "quiz" I made that most players I show get "wrong" the first few tries. There are many ways to shoot position for any given shot but this will help you stick to shorter, easier paths for many shots:
http://billiards.about.com/od/ThinkAbout/ss/How-To-Select-An-Eight-Ball-Run.htm
Read the whole two-part article and seriously consider it. I see APA 7's and 8's doing this one "wrong" right in front of me when I present it to them.