MARK WILSON Phase3 and Phase 4

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DOUG GORDON:Four days have elapsed since the USA lost to Team Europe in The Mosconi Cup.

Since then we have had a smattering of short threads, mostly from the clueless and few longer ones attacking all sorts of things like the referee, the commentators, Shane, Corey and MD plus the usual plethora of unresearched suggestions.

But refreshingly there has been no large groundswell to relieve Mark Wilson of the Captaincy.
But a few hats were thrown into the ring, by their owners. Then there were a few more championing the causes of The Forgotten and The Forgettable.
Now in the Grand Order of Things, captaining a national pool team is not such a big deal.

But to a Captain's Peers it is a very high profile job and image, character and integrity are all essential assets. Good communication skills as well as a thorough knowledge of the sport are desirable. They need to be disciplined, patient, approachable for fans and media alike.

Most names touted failed to meet that criteria. Where was there such a saint?
Two years ago, twenty years after I first met him I had a long phone discussions with him. I then urged him to put in an application to take on the job. I also lobbied a few key people for support and as a result of this and his excellent submitted resume Matchroom gave Mark Wilson the job.

But Mark came into this with a Double Task Agenda. First he had to put together a Team to take on the rampant Europeans.
His second priority was the game itself. At the end of 2013 Pool in the US was In a very bad place.There were hardly any credible events as evidenced by the calendar that Matchroom used to collect 2015 ranking points.

But from the announcement of Mark's appointment a new optimism emerged. It may have been coincidence but over the next nine months tournaments and tours sprung up.

Meanwhile over at HQ Lindenwood Team USA was being assembled with an emphasis on youth. Out went The Zimmers and in came The Swimmers as The Two Justins made their debut. They were thrown in at the deep end of Blackpool. Mark was preaching the Gospel of Youth. But in the end he stretched the definition of Youth up to the 40+ level.

Looking back with 20/20 hindsight, the task of the 2014 team was pretty formidable. There was quite a large gap between the talent levels of the teams. The USA Talked the Talk but couldn't Walk the Walk. Dreams of a victory were more in Hope than Expectation.
Given the enormity of the task ahead it might have been better to have let Jeremy get an exposure to The Cauldron that is The Mosconi .
Mark was preaching the Gospel of Youth. So out went The Zimmers and in came The Swimmers (thrown in at the deep end). In the end he redefined youth as being 40+.
It didn't pay off and with 20/20 hindsight it might have been more productive to have added Jeremy Sossei's name to Hall and Bergman's. Thoughts of a victory in Blackpool were based more on Hope than Expectation, so an extra year's experience would have benefitted Jeremy.

A lot of Mark's time went on administering his fledgling project. He was raising money to fund it and planning the logistics of setting up public appearances fór his team. He didn't hit all his year óne targets but he got through a tremendous workload.
Mark was given freedom to choose the 2014 team .But an attempt by Matchroom to bring in a qualfying system resulted in a lot of unseen difficulties. These have been documented elsewhere. But but the biggest downside was that Mark was not able to announce his players until only six weeks before tee off'.
In spite of this the team that entered the Vegas Arena had so much team togetherness. Mark’s message must be finally getting through.

But as he now enters Phase Three – the 2016 team are top priority.

Things past have all been sorted out and now Mark is close where he wanted to be. The situation now is clear. Skyler and Justin are dots on the card for sure. Shane will be there again and Mike deserves another shot. But along with Corey, they will be held under the microscope. So Mark has all year to find ONE more player. There need be no qualifiers. Mark will b alerted by any outstanding performances throughout the season so the door is not closed to any ambitious young player.
So far Mark has got to this point without using his biggest asset – his coaching abilities. If he just assembles a team and hopes things turn out right next December then the gap between the two teams will never close.

Europe have the luxury of having players of world class in every age bracket ready to step up to Mosconi duty.

Ruslan Chinakov is a class young player. Joshua Filler will be ready within a year. They are only the tip of the iceberg.

USA don’t have that supply chain. So the short term alternative has to be improving the stock that they have. Mark needs to enter into an agreement with Justin Bergman, Skyler Woodward, Mike Dechaine, Corey Deuel and Shane v Boening whereby he will work one to one with them. They all have cureable faults in their game. If they didn’t then they would have won more events.

They must accept that or bail. Of course it has to be run with a spirit of co-operation between the parties. Most of the problems are easily diagnosable for two people working together. It would not be hard to find a sponsor to support these individual get togethers. Clubs would be happy to host them and adopt a player. The player could get further financial opportunities from this relationship. Mark would get paid too and sponsors would get Mosconi Cup venue status and other MC fringe benefits. There are a few other senior coaches (Scott Lee, Jerry Briesath) supporting Mark’s initiative and he might want to involve them to help improve specialist areas such as breaking, kicking, doubles play etc

Anybody who is performing well in tournaments including Jeremy, Oscar and Brandon could get invited back on the program. Justin Hall and Landon Shuffett.

By December 2016 they might have a chance but by 2017 they would be favories. Without this radical approach the US will probably never win again
 
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boogeyman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DOUG GORDON:Four days have elapsed since the USA lost to Team Europe in The Mosconi Cup. Since then we have had a smattering of short threads, mostly from the clueless and few longer ones attacking all sorts of things like the referee, the commentators, Shane, Corey and MD plus the usual plethora of [insufficiently] researched suggestions ... * * *

(I like your thought process and agree with 90% of it. There are a few things
I would like to say--some reiterated and some countered)

Mark indeed has all the requisite skills to continue leading Team U.S.A.
and anyone considering otherwise is just plain ignorant.

I agree, so far, Mr. Wilson is right on track (here is my timeline):
And remember, this is a long-term project. This takes time. Mark is doing
so much in the background that it would spin our heads.

PHASE/YEAR 1: Put a TEAM together, focus on team play and other relevant intangibles.

PHASE/YEAR 2: After digesting the results, optimize a team proper:
If Mark sees what you and I see then it's SVB, Sky, Berg, Mike D, and ________.

PHASE/YEAR 3: Maintain and foster good team play and other critical team skill sets.
Get very close, perhaps win the MC.

PHASE/YEAR 4: Have a team that can properly compete with the Europeans.

To say that Mark has not used his biggest asset (coaching) yet is laughable.

Remember, the person who leads this team is not showing the team how to play pool, the players already know how to do that.
Make no mistake, Mark has been coaching these players from day one.

Mark is showing and instilling in these players the finer points of team play and
other important aspects. That's what a coach does, he/she motivates his team and shows them perspectives that they might not readily be aware of.

and the march goes on........
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
They should go on rankings and then in November have a round robin mosconi cup format tournament with the top sixteen in America. Then the top five players who come out of that event are the players who make up the team.

That way you get the very best who had to perform well all year AND they had to perform well in short races against each other in the final event to make the team. Kind of like olympic trials.
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They should go on rankings and then in November have a round robin mosconi cup format tournament with the top sixteen in America. Then the top five players who come out of that event are the players who make up the team.

That way you get the very best who had to perform well all year AND they had to perform well in short races against each other in the final event to make the team. Kind of like olympic trials.

I like this idea
 

Drop The Rock

1652nd on AZ Money List
Silver Member
They should go on rankings and then in November have a round robin mosconi cup format tournament with the top sixteen in America. Then the top five players who come out of that event are the players who make up the team.

That way you get the very best who had to perform well all year AND they had to perform well in short races against each other in the final event to make the team. Kind of like olympic trials.

What happens if you get Earl, who brings down the entire team for a mental standpoint?
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What happens if you get Earl, who brings down the entire team for a mental standpoint?

With John's idea, the player would have to both have a good enough year to qualify, and do well in the Mosconi Cup style round robin event.

In other words, you don't need to worry about Earl getting on the team.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
What happens if you get Earl, who brings down the entire team for a mental standpoint?

I guess you could have three alternates who could be put in by the captain if for any reason any of the qualified players didn't show the requisite team attitude.
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just to be clear, I'm taking this that the same team is expected back, and the Mosconi cup points only matter if someone wants to try to bump a player off the team?
I'm a little hazy on this announcement.

Aside from the two captain's picks, do the other three have to be top Mosconi cup points earners for 2016? I see Corey D is not on the Bigfoot list, and I understand that will carry points?
 

david(tx)

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They should go on rankings and then in November have a round robin mosconi cup format tournament with the top sixteen in America. Then the top five players who come out of that event are the players who make up the team.

That way you get the very best who had to perform well all year AND they had to perform well in short races against each other in the final event to make the team. Kind of like olympic trials.

The European team would have to qualify the same way for it to be fair.You would be taking control of the event from the founder and any personality driven selections. It would be possible for one European nation to be over represented with a qualifying tournaments and complaints of favoritism . Imagine a team with 4 Brits a Serbian and no Dutchmen .
 

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The European team would have to qualify the same way for it to be fair.You would be taking control of the event from the founder and any personality driven selections. It would be possible for one European nation to be over represented with a qualifying tournaments and complaints of favoritism . Imagine a team with 4 Brits a Serbian and no Dutchmen .

No they wouldn't.

The Europeans qualifications aren't always exactly the same as ours.
 

(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When you have players like America has to chose from, Its kind of hard not to win this event at least once out of four years.

A team of Johnny, Rodney, Shane, Mike, and Justin could win this event at least once in 4 years even if they had no coach imo.

What is the big deal about accomplishing a victory in "phase 4"?
 
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denzilla171

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Team USA still suffers from poor team dynamics. They're fine as long as things are going their way, but as soon as adversity strikes they crumble.

Note: When someone on Team Europe dogs an easy shot, Chamat is right there telling them to forget about it an play the next shot. Meanwhile on Team USA, if someone misses an easy one all they get is a heaping load of stink-face from their teammate and silence from their coach.

Corey in particular needed some pumping up - badly - but SVB wouldn't even look at him. In the interview after Corey won his singles match, the reporter asked him about the stress of the event, Corey basically says that his own team is causing him the most stress.

I don't know, maybe Mark is a lot more active than it appears on TV, but it looks like he's just another spectator in a matching shirt. He shows up for high fives after a win but I can't recall him ever showing up when things go wrong - ie. when coaching/leadership is most needed. Being knowledgable about pool is simply not enough for the role, knowing how to get the most out of people is the key... with some timely interventions a couple of matches could have come out quite differently.

Look at the chemistry between Appleton and Boyes, Feijin and Van den Berg, or Bergman and Skylar. They've got each others back, they stay positive no matter what, and they generally get the results that such teamwork promotes. Hate to say it, but team USA's top player isn't much of a team player, so it doesn't bode well for the future...
 
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Bella Don't Cry

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
DOUG GORDON:Four days have elapsed since the USA lost to Team Europe in The Mosconi Cup.

By December 2016 they might have a chance but by 2017 they would be favories. Without this radical approach the US will probably never win again

(edited)
A well thought out, logical start to a thread Sir! :thumb:
I'm in the Mr. Wilson camp - I've never met him but from the impression he gives on TV he seems steady and level headed, which is what the management of people is all about...

2017 will see the USA lead a serious charge for MC glory which in a 4 year time frame would be a exceptional achievement. Many fans seem to either forget or not care that Europe now boasts a tremendous amount of Pool talent with a professionally run continental tour alongside many domestic national pro tours to boot.

Put simply; Europe will remain dominant until the USA can sought out a real competitive pro tour, which lends itself to the development of youth across the board. So for Mr. Wilson to even dare try to create a winning environment for team USA to compete is an achievement to itself!

Mr. Wilson; This Buds for you...
:thumb:
 

Teacherman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Team USA still suffers from poor team dynamics. They're fine as long as things are going their way, but as soon as adversity strikes they crumble.

Note: When someone on Team Europe dogs an easy shot, Chamat is right there telling them to forget about it an play the next shot. Meanwhile on Team USA, if someone misses an easy one all they get is a heaping load of stink-face from their teammate and silence from their coach.

Corey in particular needed some pumping up - badly - but SVB wouldn't even look at him. In the interview after Corey won his singles match, the reporter asked him about the stress of the event, Corey basically says that his own team is causing him the most stress.

I don't know, maybe Mark is a lot more active than it appears on TV, but it looks like he's just another spectator in a matching shirt. He shows up for high fives after a win but I can't recall him ever showing up when things go wrong - ie. when coaching/leadership is most needed. Being knowledgable about pool is simply not enough for the role, knowing how to get the most out of people is the key... with some timely interventions a couple of matches could have come out quite differently.

Look at the chemistry between Appleton and Boyes, Feijin and Van den Berg, or Bergman and Skylar. They've got each others back, they stay positive no matter what, and they generally get the results that such teamwork promotes. Hate to say it, but team USA's top player isn't much of a team player, so it doesn't bode well for the future...

This is nonsense. Quit looking for excuses. We got beat. These are men. How much is enough? Suggesting that Corey would snap out of it if only his coach or teammates would whisper in his ear more is childish. This isn't grade school.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
(edited)
A well thought out, logical start to a thread Sir! :thumb:
I'm in the Mr. Wilson camp - I've never met him but from the impression he gives on TV he seems steady and level headed, which is what the management of people is all about...

2017 will see the USA lead a serious charge for MC glory which in a 4 year time frame would be a exceptional achievement. Many fans seem to either forget or not care that Europe now boasts a tremendous amount of Pool talent with a professionally run continental tour alongside many domestic national pro tours to boot.

Put simply; Europe will remain dominant until the USA can sought out a real competitive pro tour, which lends itself to the development of youth across the board. So for Mr. Wilson to even dare try to create a winning environment for team USA to compete is an achievement to itself!

Mr. Wilson; This Buds for you...
:thumb:

We will win in 17 because our younger talent is better and they will be more seasoned by then primed and ready to take the cup back

1
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
This is nonsense. Quit looking for excuses. We got beat. These are men. How much is enough? Suggesting that Corey would snap out of it if only his coach or teammates would whisper in his ear more is childish. This isn't grade school.

you're right - "this isn't grade school". and yet, it has been in the past - with Team USA. i'll reference Mosconi 2013: there was major contention within the team, which most herein aren't privvy to. it would be the job, of the coach, to put a fricken HALT to it. Johan had no issues with his - why can't WE/USA do the same????

so Mark Wilson has done an incredible job in resurrecting credibility to Team USA. Mosconi went the full 4 days this year, & MatchRoom didn't have to refund & should have received full sponsorship. win/win!

but it could be so much more. as i understand it, the outside yearfull of jobs of the coach are not compensated, and the specified job is $3500ish. again, Mark deserves CRED for this. (i wouldn't do it; it doesn't pay enough & there's not a big enough whip) i wish he would reach out to all who offer their services out-of-pocket, including suggestions from AZBers. and if MatchRoom wanted a bigger return - they'd do the same....
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Team USA still suffers from poor team dynamics. They're fine as long as things are going their way, but as soon as adversity strikes they crumble.

Note: When someone on Team Europe dogs an easy shot, Chamat is right there telling them to forget about it an play the next shot. Meanwhile on Team USA, if someone misses an easy one all they get is a heaping load of stink-face from their teammate and silence from their coach.

Corey in particular needed some pumping up - badly - but SVB wouldn't even look at him. In the interview after Corey won his singles match, the reporter asked him about the stress of the event, Corey basically says that his own team is causing him the most stress.

I don't know, maybe Mark is a lot more active than it appears on TV, but it looks like he's just another spectator in a matching shirt. He shows up for high fives after a win but I can't recall him ever showing up when things go wrong - ie. when coaching/leadership is most needed. Being knowledgable about pool is simply not enough for the role, knowing how to get the most out of people is the key... with some timely interventions a couple of matches could have come out quite differently.

Look at the chemistry between Appleton and Boyes, Feijin and Van den Berg, or Bergman and Skylar. They've got each others back, they stay positive no matter what, and they generally get the results that such teamwork promotes. Hate to say it, but team USA's top player isn't much of a team player, so it doesn't bode well for the future...

Vince Lombardi understood that we each are individuals. Some need a kick in the rear & to be challenged & pushed while others need a pat on the back & bit of cajoling & building up of their confidence. Lombardi new men & he new his players.

Football Players & the Green Bay Packers were 'grown men' but The Coach helped them to be the best that they could be & to become 'World' Champions.

Max Magee was an aging wide receiver that was never supposed to play in the 1st. Super Bowl but when a starting receiver got injured, Lombardi called on Magee to play & he played at MVP caliber... AND with a huge hangover. When asked how he was able to do that, he replied, I had to... or The Old Man (Lombardi) would have killed me.

Pool is different & more individual in nature but the Cup turns it into a different kind of game. One needs to understand what it is to not want to let one's team mates & 'fans' down. When one understands that, one can have compassion for a fellow team mate that may not be performing as they should & knows what to say because they know what they might need to hear if they were in the same position. In a team event, one plays for their team mates... & coach. If they are playing for themselves, there is a good chance that they will come up short, at least IMO.

It's these type of 'intangibles' that the Lee Brett thread was sort of about.

We don't know what Mark Wilson has done behind the scenes. We only 'know' what we think we are seeing.

I think Mark Wilson will get at least one more shot. If they lose again, something would probably need to change, but... that does not mean that it need be him.

A team is like a chain & only as strong as it's weakest link. IMHO the team looked good with SVB, Bergman, & Woodward. After that, the other two spots need to be beefed up.

Best Wishes to You & ALL.
 
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(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is nonsense. Quit looking for excuses. We got beat. These are men. How much is enough? Suggesting that Corey would snap out of it if only his coach or teammates would whisper in his ear more is childish. This isn't grade school.

Team chemistry is your boy Mark Wilsons idea for the key to success.
 

watchez

What time is it?
Silver Member
I don't know, maybe Mark is a lot more active than it appears on TV, but it looks like he's just another spectator in a matching shirt. He shows up for high fives after a win but I can't recall him ever showing up when things go wrong - ie. when coaching/leadership is most needed. Being knowledgable about pool is simply not enough for the role, knowing how to get the most out of people is the key... with some timely interventions a couple of matches could have come out quite differently.

Can we bet on this --- the matches are on YouTube to prove you wrong cause once again someone in the land of the internet doesn't have a clue.
 
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