Stroke vs. Aiming

BeiberLvr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
. Get this one: they advertise something like a "51 page instruction manual!" What they don't tell you is that the manual is in three languages of 17 pages each! I laughed out loud after scratching my head when I realized that.

And yet I don't see you creating multiple threads telling people to be wary if they are going to purchase the Rempe training ball.

Gosh, what a shame it would be if unsuspecting folks had to deal with actual false advertisement.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
It's a discussion, not a math problem. Also mine and others opinions change after we've used items for a certain amount of time. Some of these items I was initially positive about, but after using them my opinion changed.

And as I said those are reviews based on use. Not deliberate hit jobs, not stalking around the forum chasing down every discussion talking about that product to interject a negative post and poison the discussion.

Maybe it would make sense if I went into the 14.1 forum and crapped all over every thread with my opinion that 14.1 is bad game. I could say I used to love it but my opinion now is that it's horrible and regardless of the thread topic I would find some way to interject my "opinion" on 14.1.
 

Mkindsv

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have known for a long time my stroke is shit (Justin's before China was WAY better than mine). I worked on mine for the past month.

JB...I would like to know what you worked on with your stroke, what drills did you do? Did you do the Tor Lowry Stroke Drill( I found it immensely helpful after 17 years away from the game)??? Worked on it for a month? Was staying down, part of your stroke drill??

I watched the match and was captivated if anything by the stakes, it was awesome, my observations, and not being judgemental at all, was that you weren't staying down on shots, that your follow through was inconsistent, and that you used a lot of body english. You also made some great shots!!! Kudos!

Good on ya though for having the nuts to post that kind of scratch and provide us all with a few days of great entertainment, I truly enjoyed it.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
You didn't buy one. I didn't buy one.
And nobody is hyping them.
So, nobody is really criticizing them.

The natural stroke has a dip at the end. So, you can pretty much throw away all those tube trainers.

Not arguing aim vs stroke.
Just saying aiming systems are more sellable than stroking/fundamentals .
Heck, there is no stroking or PSR section here is there?

The only reason that an aiming system section exists is because of the constant criticism and argument. That's my point.

This section should not exist for that reason. It could exist as a place for people to discuss aiming IN PEACE. And there could be a PSR section, and a stroke section.

Did you know Rafael Martinez told us in a clinic I paid for in Germany that there are eight different strokes he uses? Of course you don't. Could you find any discussion on just the idea of different types of strokes on AZB easily? Should you be able to?

We could have a different section for every aspect of the game but whatever the discussion why can't it be had with civility and mutual respect for the time and effort of the people who have developed methods, systems and devices that are intended to help people get better?
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
JB...I would like to know what you worked on with your stroke, what drills did you do? Did you do the Tor Lowry Stroke Drill( I found it immensely helpful after 17 years away from the game)??? Worked on it for a month? Was staying down, part of your stroke drill??

I watched the match and was captivated if anything by the stakes, it was awesome, my observations, and not being judgemental at all, was that you weren't staying down on shots, that your follow through was inconsistent, and that you used a lot of body english. You also made some great shots!!! Kudos!

Good on ya though for having the nuts to post that kind of scratch and provide us all with a few days of great entertainment, I truly enjoyed it.

I did Tor's stuff, I did straight ins, I did Gordy's templates. On the practice table I can show you a pretty straight stroke. Slight wobbles here and there but for the most part pretty straight. Maybe I didn't do enough. I know my shoulders hurt and my back hurt a lot from the dozens of hours I spent doing stroke training. I even did hundreds of Tor shots a day with the Pocket Reducers from many angles. I felt pretty good about where my stroke was at and I was running a lot of balls.

On the main stage however, that stroke seems to disappear and only comes out with deliberate mental effort. I don't know why. Nerves? Bipolar tendencies? I don't know, if I did I'd be 17,000 dollars wealthier. I play people sets all the time and manage to have a good stroke and win but those matches aren't streamed and hyped and full of "must prove xyz system works" pressure....
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
The only reason that an aiming system section exists is because of the constant criticism and argument. That's my point.

This section should not exist for that reason. It could exist as a place for people to discuss aiming IN PEACE. And there could be a PSR section, and a stroke section.

Did you know Rafael Martinez told us in a clinic I paid for in Germany that there are eight different strokes he uses? Of course you don't. Could you find any discussion on just the idea of different types of strokes on AZB easily? Should you be able to?

We could have a different section for every aspect of the game but whatever the discussion why can't it be had with civility and mutual respect for the time and effort of the people who have developed methods, systems and devices that are intended to help people get better?

Some of us have tried to bring up different strokes etc...But it's pointless. There are some on here that understand, but a wast majority who either remain oblivious or lie for commercial reasons. They have been brainwashed to believe that it is impossible to do anything with your stroke, which is why their strokes look like absolute crap and they keep hitting balls into the rail.

You bemoan the state of the forum, as do I , and we do so for different reasons, but the enemy is common. The mentality that some people have. They have found something that works for them, so everything else is rubbish, even to the point that they'd never even look at anything different. They'll go as far as to lie blatantly and ignore video evidence that go against their beliefs. Nothing can persuade them to change their minds.

You like to try new stuff, and so do I. These people never try anything, they never look at anything. They are deaf and blind to the world around them. They were persuaded at one time and now nothing can shake their persuasion. This is a religious mindset, not a scientific one, which is why some of us often compare it to religious fundamentalism. Arguing with such people is exactly the same as doing so with a religious fundamentalist.

Contrary to a lot of people I have looked at almost all the videos and tried most of the techniques that are being discussed on here, even the more obscure ones. I am curious. Doesn't mean I don't have convictions, but I test those constantly, as do most curious people.

The nature of the open forum is such that no matter what is being discussed, some people will interject with their opinions. I have a different opinion than you on both CTE and the forum. I think one should govern oneself, rather than others. If someone annoys you, use ignore rather than banning. When you censor and delete threads, any contribution, no matter how brilliant, becomes pointless. Tons of threads with entertaining and enlightening content has been lost forever because of bickering, often between people who were later banned, so that people who did discuss matters in a civilized way had their words erased, through no fault of their own, by people who are no longer active. You see how absurd that is? That is what censorship does, and it's an extremely slippery slope. Once you start, every special interest group will want to have it's interests catered to, until all you are left with is bland nonsense with no edge or information value what so ever. What you are left with is facebook gossip. Nothing could be more braindead, more vacuous than this.
 
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GoldenFlash

Banned
Things are not always as they seem..don't sweat it.

I did Tor's stuff, I did straight ins, I did Gordy's templates. On the practice table I can show you a pretty straight stroke. Slight wobbles here and there but for the most part pretty straight. Maybe I didn't do enough. I know my shoulders hurt and my back hurt a lot from the dozens of hours I spent doing stroke training. I even did hundreds of Tor shots a day with the Pocket Reducers from many angles. I felt pretty good about where my stroke was at and I was running a lot of balls.
On the main stage however, that stroke seems to disappear and only comes out with deliberate mental effort. I don't know why. Nerves? Bipolar tendencies? I don't know, if I did I'd be 17,000 dollars wealthier. I play people sets all the time and manage to have a good stroke and win but those matches aren't streamed and hyped and full of "must prove xyz system works" pressure....
I watched your match on the stream.
I couldn't get a flight out of here to OKC, as paying customers came out of the woodworks and filled the flights. (I fly non-rev, that means 'freebie'...retired employee). Paying passengers come first....as it should be.
Anyway, I think the biggest contention you may have with anything in your game is your problem with staying down instead of jumping up.
The jumping up is related to nerves....but by literally forcing oneself to stay down, the nerves can be placed under control a lot easier.
Danny Jones taught me this, wayyyyyyy back around 1958. He said "After you're in position and ready to pull the trigger, say to yourself mentally..."I will not move, even if I miss...I am staying in position until the balls stop rolling"
I find that today, if I start missing, all I have to do is repeat that to myself mentally and lo and behold, things start correcting themselves.
As far as the mechanics of how you move that cue...not worth the time for any worry. Mosconi had a stroke that was smooth as silk....Allen Hopkins (who I studied for HOURS and HOURS) looked like a total goofus with that jerky stroke of his....yet the balls went into the pockets and he robbed everybody and won championships. Bustamante is not exactly a totally wholesome specimen when it comes to stroking technique either.
Force yourself to stay down and the other things will correct automatically. You're armed with the best aiming method ever discovered (CTE)...so the rest is a lot easier.
You made some new friends...you and your opponent, and the wives, all had fun and you gave back very positive vibes to the game. (Something I never saw the Duckies and the Dan Whites of the world ever do)
Don't sweat nothing....just force yourself to stay down. You'll be okay.
That's my opinion.
Regards,
Flash
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Some of us have tried to bring up different strokes etc...But it's pointless. There are some on here that understand, but a wast majority who either remain oblivious or lie for commercial reasons. They have been brainwashed to believe that it is impossible to do anything with your stroke, which is why their strokes look like absolute crap and they keep hitting balls into the rail.

You bemoan the state of the forum, as do I , and we do so for different reasons, but the enemy is common. The mentality that some people have. They have found something that works for them, so everything else is rubbish, even to the point that they'd never even look at anything different. They'll go as far as to lie blatantly and ignore video evidence that go against their beliefs. Nothing can persuade them to change their minds.

You like to try new stuff, and so do I. These people never try anything, they never look at anything. They are deaf and blind to the world around them. They were persuaded at one time and now nothing can shake their persuasion. This is a religious mindset, not a scientific one, which is why some of us often compare it to religious fundamentalism. Arguing with such people is exactly the same as doing so with a religious fundamentalist.

Contrary to a lot of people I have looked at almost all the videos and tried most of the techniques that are being discussed on here, even the more obscure ones. I am curious. Doesn't mean I don't have convictions, but I test those constantly, as do most curious people.

The nature of the open forum is such that no matter what is being discussed, some people will interject with their opinions. I have a different opinion than you on both CTE and the forum. I think one should govern oneself, rather than others. If someone annoys you, use ignore rather than banning. When you censor and delete threads, any contribution, no matter how brilliant, becomes pointless. Tons of threads with entertaining and enlightening content has been lost forever because of bickering, often between people who were later banned, so that people who did discuss matters in a civilized way had their words erased, through no fault of their own, by people who are no longer active. You see how absurd that is? That is what censorship does, and it's an extremely slippery slope. Once you start, every special interest group will want to have it's interests catered to, until all you are left with is bland nonsense with no edge or information value what so ever. What you are left with is facebook gossip. Nothing could be more braindead, more vacuous than this.

I used to think a totally open forum with no censorship or moderation was the way to go. Now I don't. Too many people abuse it and the good information that comes out of civil discussion and debate is lost amidst a literal sea of garbage.

There is a very good reason why debates are moderated. It is to keep the debate on topic and on point.

I participate in two other forums which are highly moderated. They have long running threads on technique and method but no flamewars. The moderators are so quick to delete anyone's post and warn them when they are out of line that the rest of us almost never see such a post or have to report one. I got such a warning for using a word like damn when I was describing something I liked.

As a result both of those forums are the literal #1 go to spots on the internet for finding out information about the activities they cover. One can go there and do a search and come up with relevant and credible information in minutes. And if one has a question it is answered accurately in less than an hour by several experts most of the time.

I realize that this makes a forum possibly boring when there are no good flamewars to roast marshmallows on but the upside is that there is a lot more participation by the type of people who can contribute fantastic content.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I used to think a totally open forum with no censorship or moderation was the way to go. Now I don't. Too many people abuse it and the good information that comes out of civil discussion and debate is lost amidst a literal sea of garbage.

There is a very good reason why debates are moderated. It is to keep the debate on topic and on point.

I participate in two other forums which are highly moderated. They have long running threads on technique and method but no flamewars. The moderators are so quick to delete anyone's post and warn them when they are out of line that the rest of us almost never see such a post or have to report one. I got such a warning for using a word like damn when I was describing something I liked.

As a result both of those forums are the literal #1 go to spots on the internet for finding out information about the activities they cover. One can go there and do a search and come up with relevant and credible information in minutes. And if one has a question it is answered accurately in less than an hour by several experts most of the time.

I realize that this makes a forum possibly boring when there are no good flamewars to roast marshmallows on but the upside is that there is a lot more participation by the type of people who can contribute fantastic content.

Yet you still come here as a multiple offender just why is that if utopia resides elsewhere
What sites are these,

1
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
No possible way would I ever tell anyone here what those forums are publicly. I have told people privately who can benefit from them.

And yes I know I have been a dick but honestly, you're a dick as well, lots of people act like dicks to each other on here when we shouldn't. You know with 100% truth that you have made comments to me that have been nothing but malicious with zero value to the forum. What's your reason? I know you have one that is perfectly logical in your mind. But the fact is you and I flaming each other does not help one person to play better pool and it does not advance our sport one little bit.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N920A using Tapatalk
 

duckie

GregH
Silver Member
I watched your match on the stream.
I couldn't get a flight out of here to OKC, as paying customers came out of the woodworks and filled the flights. (I fly non-rev, that means 'freebie'...retired employee). Paying passengers come first....as it should be.
Anyway, I think the biggest contention you may have with anything in your game is your problem with staying down instead of jumping up.
The jumping up is related to nerves....but by literally forcing oneself to stay down, the nerves can be placed under control a lot easier.
Danny Jones taught me this, wayyyyyyy back around 1958. He said "After you're in position and ready to pull the trigger, say to yourself mentally..."I will not move, even if I miss...I am staying in position until the balls stop rolling"
I find that today, if I start missing, all I have to do is repeat that to myself mentally and lo and behold, things start correcting themselves.
As far as the mechanics of how you move that cue...not worth the time for any worry. Mosconi had a stroke that was smooth as silk....Allen Hopkins (who I studied for HOURS and HOURS) looked like a total goofus with that jerky stroke of his....yet the balls went into the pockets and he robbed everybody and won championships. Bustamante is not exactly a totally wholesome specimen when it comes to stroking technique either.
Force yourself to stay down and the other things will correct automatically. You're armed with the best aiming method ever discovered (CTE)...so the rest is a lot easier.
You made some new friends...you and your opponent, and the wives, all had fun and you gave back very positive vibes to the game. (Something I never saw the Duckies and the Dan Whites of the world ever do)
Don't sweat nothing....just force yourself to stay down. You'll be okay.
That's my opinion.
Regards,
Flash

So, you are all seeing and all knowing on what goes on in my life.

Go to hell.
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
So, you are all seeing and all knowing on what goes on in my life.

Go to hell.

Not sure who you actually are but if you are so bothered by some of things said on this forum, it might be better for you not to participate. I'm no angel for sure but your Negative attitude leads me to wonder about your well being. Its just pool an telling people to go to hell isn't doing you any favors.

Things become a big deal only if you let them.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not sure who you actually are but if you are so bothered by some of things said on this forum, it might be better for you not to participate. I'm no angel for sure but your Negative attitude leads me to wonder about your well being. Its just pool an telling people to go to hell isn't doing you any favors.

Things become a big deal only if you let them.

Could be worse. At least he's not a "bugar eating hater."
 

Straightpool_99

I see dead balls
Silver Member
Could be worse. At least he's not a "bugar eating hater."

Wait, I'm confused. Does that mean that the person hates eating boogers themselves, hates the practise of eating boogers generally, or that he or she eats boogers and also hates, lol?
 
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GoldenFlash

Banned
...I likes Duckie

So, you are all seeing and all knowing on what goes on in my life.
Go to hell.
Well, well, well........what a splendid reply. :wink:
By the way, what if there isn't any hell?
Maybe it's just like that half ball hit you say doesn't exist.......could be, you know.
:rotflmao1:
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Wait, I'm confused. Does that mean that the person hates eating boogers themselves, hates the practise of eating boogers generally, or that he or she eats boogers and also hates, lol?

I think it means the person throwing around insults like that isn't thinking rationally.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't know if you consider this one a gadget, but I have one that's quality and works. It's the Jim Rempe training ball. Chalk marks stick lightly to the ball as they should, yet generally wipe off easily. Ball rolls true and seems like a quality product. I don't use mine often, but when I do it has been very helpful. It gives you insights that using a regular cue ball or an object ball just can't do.

Now, having said that, I can say that the "instruction manual" for the ball is complete crap. Get this one: they advertise something like a "51 page instruction manual!" What they don't tell you is that the manual is in three languages of 17 pages each! I laughed out loud after scratching my head when I realized that.

You have to read the Chinese pages. They say, "throw this crap away and go practice your ass off".
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Some of us have tried to bring up different strokes etc...But it's pointless. There are some on here that understand, but a wast majority who either remain oblivious or lie for commercial reasons. They have been brainwashed to believe that it is impossible to do anything with your stroke, which is why their strokes look like absolute crap and they keep hitting balls into the rail.

You bemoan the state of the forum, as do I , and we do so for different reasons, but the enemy is common. The mentality that some people have. They have found something that works for them, so everything else is rubbish, even to the point that they'd never even look at anything different. They'll go as far as to lie blatantly and ignore video evidence that go against their beliefs. Nothing can persuade them to change their minds.

You like to try new stuff, and so do I. These people never try anything, they never look at anything. They are deaf and blind to the world around them. They were persuaded at one time and now nothing can shake their persuasion. This is a religious mindset, not a scientific one, which is why some of us often compare it to religious fundamentalism. Arguing with such people is exactly the same as doing so with a religious fundamentalist.

Contrary to a lot of people I have looked at almost all the videos and tried most of the techniques that are being discussed on here, even the more obscure ones. I am curious. Doesn't mean I don't have convictions, but I test those constantly, as do most curious people.

The nature of the open forum is such that no matter what is being discussed, some people will interject with their opinions. I have a different opinion than you on both CTE and the forum. I think one should govern oneself, rather than others. If someone annoys you, use ignore rather than banning. When you censor and delete threads, any contribution, no matter how brilliant, becomes pointless. Tons of threads with entertaining and enlightening content has been lost forever because of bickering, often between people who were later banned, so that people who did discuss matters in a civilized way had their words erased, through no fault of their own, by people who are no longer active. You see how absurd that is? That is what censorship does, and it's an extremely slippery slope. Once you start, every special interest group will want to have it's interests catered to, until all you are left with is bland nonsense with no edge or information value what so ever. What you are left with is facebook gossip. Nothing could be more braindead, more vacuous than this.

Good post.
What are your observations on Global Warming?
 
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