Glue not holding on black ferrule.

r9ball · Jul 28, 2015

I have been doing tips locally for 30 years and never had this problem.
Kamui black super soft tip.
Player has a black ferrule ( either ABS or PVC). I have tried Loctite glue, gel and 401 and tip still comes loose from ferrule after a couple weeks. Glues were not old. Cue is not abused or left in weather.
I have not tried a 2-part epoxy but that look like next step.
Anybody else had this or possible solution?

ideologist · Jul 28, 2015

r9ball said:
I have been doing tips locally for 30 years and never had this problem.
Kamui black super soft tip.
Player has a black ferrule ( either ABS or PVC). I have tried Loctite glue, gel and 401 and tip still comes loose from ferrule after a couple weeks. Glues were not old. Cue is not abused or left in weather.
I have not tried a 2-part epoxy but that look like next step.
Anybody else had this or possible solution?

It could be PP or a different plastic. Get a black juma ferrule and it will glue beautifully.

r9ball · Jul 28, 2015

Not my cue and I can't force the owner to spend money to replace ferrule although I suggested ferrule change. I don't do ferrules so ferrule and shipping both ways.

whammo57 · Jul 29, 2015

some plastic ferrules do not take glue well......... change the ferrule.......... I had one like that..... put 2 tips on it and both popped off.......... the second time I just changed the ferrule and didn't even tell him......... oh well......... just chalk it up to experience...........

Kim

JoeyInCali · Jul 29, 2015

Try thin CA and accelerator.
I wouldn't change the ferrule w/out the owner's permission b/c you will be changing the hit .
Worse, I don't like donating labor and parts. Or opening a can of worms.
What if the tenon is crooked? Or has some strange metric threads ?

Kim Bye · Jul 29, 2015

JoeyInCali said:
Try thin CA and accelerator.
I wouldn't change the ferrule w/out the owner's permission b/c you will be changing the hit .
Worse, I don't like donating labor and parts. Or opening a can of worms.
What if the tenon is crooked? Or has some strange metric threads ?

A Kamui is $20 a pop. If r9ball is paying for the tips, replacing the ferrule is a small price to pay.
And how is metric threads strange ? :grin-square:

GBCues · Jul 29, 2015

I have also run into ferrules that wouldn't stick to glue - e.g. Athena (Asian) cue. After about 3 popoffs I replaced the ferrule with an Ivorex and no problems after that. Customer didn't notice any difference - I mean, playing with an Athena cue you wouldn't expect them to.
So, do you mind saying what brand cue it is?
And then, there's always the lingering question - "What glue did/does the manufacturer use that, in fact, does adhere to the ferrule material so well?"
Gary

ratcues · Jul 29, 2015

Kim Bye said:
A Kamui is $20 a pop. If r9ball is paying for the tips, replacing the ferrule is a small price to pay.
And how is metric threads strange ? :grin-square:

Changing the ferrule vs changing the ferrule without consent are two different things. I would let the player know what's up and that the ferrule needs to be changed if he wants the tip to stay on.

MVPCues · Jul 29, 2015

Kim Bye said:
A Kamui is $20 a pop. If r9ball is paying for the tips, replacing the ferrule is a small price to pay.
And how is metric threads strange ? :grin-square:

Not exactly strange but problematic?

If one is going to change a ferrule without permission, then one might just change from threaded to non threaded and not care. However, normally, there is an attempt to maintain a specific ferrule design when changing out a ferrule. So...

If you use heat to remove the ferrule and it comes off cleanly with good threads, how will you thread a ferrule in your inventory for metric? Most cuesmiths don't have a set of metric taps for ferrule prep. I use live tooling to cut threads. I can do metric, but it requires changing a few gears. A bit of a pain.

If the threads don't come out cleanly for whatever reason, you likely won't have a metric compression die to attempt to clean them up. Get a pick and try and dig out glue? I often pick up the threads so they come out as clean as they were when the first ferrule was put on. Again, metric would still be a pain and might not be as easy to identify.

Kim Bye · Jul 29, 2015

ratcues said:
Changing the ferrule vs changing the ferrule without consent are two different things. I would let the player know what's up and that the ferrule needs to be changed if he wants the tip to stay on.

Yes, of course I would talk with the customer first.

MVPCues said:
Not exactly strange but problematic?

If one is going to change a ferrule without permission, then one might just change from threaded to non threaded and not care. However, normally, there is an attempt to maintain a specific ferrule design when changing out a ferrule. So...

If you use heat to remove the ferrule and it comes off cleanly with good threads, how will you thread a ferrule in your inventory for metric? Most cuesmiths don't have a set of metric taps for ferrule prep. I use live tooling to cut threads. I can do metric, but it requires changing a few gears. A bit of a pain.

If the threads don't come out cleanly for whatever reason, you likely won't have a metric compression die to attempt to clean them up. Get a pick and try and dig out glue? I often pick up the threads so they come out as clean as they were when the first ferrule was put on. Again, metric would still be a pain and might not be as easy to identify.

I was kinda joking. Here in Europe we use the Metric system and I prefer that system, but since all pool cues use imperial threads, I use imperial taps and screws, but I do have matric tap sets too.

MVPCues · Jul 29, 2015

Kim Bye said:
Yes, of course I would talk with the customer first.

I was kinda joking. Here in Europe we use the Metric system and I prefer that system, but since all pool cues use imperial threads, I use imperial taps and screws, but I do have matric tap sets too.

You know...if I had noticed the Oslo, I would have gotten it immediately.

GBCues · Jul 29, 2015

ratcues said:
Changing the ferrule vs changing the ferrule without consent are two different things. I would let the player know what's up and that the ferrule needs to be changed if he wants the tip to stay on.

Hey Ryan,
I'm not trying to condone changing the ferrule without permission - in retrospect it was wrong - but I've heard a player say to another "Your tip popped off? Does that cue guy know what he's doing?" Some players seem to understand that stuff happens and others are like the guy above. I'm not sure how successful it would be to try to explain that the ferrule material is at fault and it's going to cost the player more money. How do you respond to "Well, the other tip has been on there for two years." It's a tough position to be in.
Which falls back to my question above - What DID the manufacturer use to glue that tip on that lasted for years?
Anyway, not trying to argue, just wondering what you and others think.
Gary

ideologist · Jul 29, 2015

GBCues said:
Which falls back to my question above - What DID the manufacturer use to glue that tip on that lasted for years?
Anyway, not trying to argue, just wondering what you and others think.
Gary

I bet they have a 55-gallon drum of some kind of shipbuilding/aerospace adhesive or other ludicrous material in China.

r9ball · Jul 29, 2015

The shaft fits a Viking but not sure who made it. Looking down on the tenon, it seems to be 6 piece pie shape.
I have some CA coming so we'll see what happens.

Colonel · Jul 30, 2015

I've been using black linen based micarta ferrules for 30 years, never had a problem. Perhaps try this material, fabulous hit.

ratcues · Jul 30, 2015

GBCues said:
Hey Ryan,
I'm not trying to condone changing the ferrule without permission - in retrospect it was wrong - but I've heard a player say to another "Your tip popped off? Does that cue guy know what he's doing?" Some players seem to understand that stuff happens and others are like the guy above. I'm not sure how successful it would be to try to explain that the ferrule material is at fault and it's going to cost the player more money. How do you respond to "Well, the other tip has been on there for two years." It's a tough position to be in.
Which falls back to my question above - What DID the manufacturer use to glue that tip on that lasted for years?
Anyway, not trying to argue, just wondering what you and others think.
Gary

The only thing to do is be honest with the player. Yes, you could change the ferrule to a different material and the player may never know. Does that make it ok? IMO, that is lying by omission. In this instance, if I put a tip on and it popped off more than once, I would change the ferrule, no charge, after discussing it with the player.

JoeyInCali · Jul 30, 2015

Colonel said:
I've been using black linen based micarta ferrules for 30 years, never had a problem. Perhaps try this material, fabulous hit.

Too heavy and too hard for most .
Juma makes a black ferrule.
I don't see a good reason for black ferrules though.

Colonel · Jul 30, 2015

JoeyInCali said:
Too heavy and too hard for most .

Juma makes a black ferrule.

I don't see a good reason for black ferrules though.

It's an acquired taste. I'm lining up on a white cue ball, clearer definition with black than with a ferrule the same color as the cue ball.
EDIT- additionally my ferrules never turn blue. I find Juma too soft for my taste.

ratcues · Jul 30, 2015

JoeyInCali said:
I don't see a good reason for black ferrules though.

All of my personal cues have black ferrules. Only the coolest of people can handle it...

JoeyInCali · Jul 30, 2015

ratcues said:
All of my personal cues have black ferrules. Only the coolest of people can handle it...

And if you go black, you can't go back?
Cool or fool?

Glue not holding on black ferrule.

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I don't never exaggerate

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