Table Design and Function - 2 Questions

"better" that`s a subjective word...
But I still think a table could be designed in a way that makes assembly more consistent, wich in theory should be a pluss.
Diamond and Rasson are lightyears ahead of Brunswick in that respect. Could it be done even better? most probeably, but it`s also a price point issue.
The new Rasson tables actually uses aluminum profiles, it`s a pretty clever solution for the frame, something similar to connect the siderails together would be nice. Not a fan of the raised metal castings that holds the pockets, I think Diamonds solution with flat siderails and the almost flush leather pockets is much better.

Cool thread, I'm sure there will be some interesting ideas.
I own a 2007 Diamond Pro the RKC helped set up. This table plays great and banks like it should, I can switch between a Gold Crown and my Diamond and not have a problem. As we all know the leather pockets have been dyed and that dye can and will leave marks on the balls. This problem may have been fixed in recent years(I fixed mine as soon as Glen finished the set up).

The corner pockets have brackets that are held in place by Philip screws.These brackets hold the corner bevels and the aprons together. The screws are very close to the leather pocket web that holds the balls. My fear was that as the leather web becomes more supple or breaks the pocketed balls may hit the screw heads and damage the balls. I padded mine with a thin sheet of foam packing material.

This next complaint is consistent with all tables and I do not have a answer. Rarely do I use the diamonds aiming guides that are inlaid in the rail but when I do and I am down on my shot I can't see them because I get very low to the table. I will use the chalk to mark the point of the rail I need to contact when I am practicing at home on my own table. When I tried that in a real game a guy named Turk broke my thumbs

I don’t understand the question. You say no deficiencies of current tables. So I suppose GC tables scratching your cue stick or Diamond tables not having rails that bounce properly are off limits? So are you looking for features that have never been on any pool table in the hundreds of years they’ve been around?

iusedtoberich said:

I don’t understand the question. You say no deficiencies of current tables. So I suppose GC tables scratching your cue stick or Diamond tables not having rails that bounce properly are off limits? So are you looking for features that have never been on any pool table in the hundreds of years they’ve been around?

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Wby don't you show up at the DCC bank pool tournament this month, which will have over 400 players BANKING balls every angle there is....and tell everyone how you feel....because i would think that if they're like you....they should boycott the bank pool tournament....THEN you can set up a pool table YOU designed and built.....and show EVERYONE in the world how a pool table is really suppose to bank.....LMAO....I won't be holding my breath waiting on YOUR pool table to show up!!

Mr. Bond said:

1. Can/have you designed a table that you feel is "better" in quality and/or function than any table available to the average consumer?

If so, please show us.

2. If you are inclined to ponder such things, is there anything missing from the "best" tables out there.

If so, please describe it to us.


Please keep in mind that I'm not asking for so-called deficiencies of any current table.
In other words:
"I'd make one that doesn't break"
and
"these cushions suck"
..is not really the answer I'm looking for.

cheers

Click to expand...

Sure, no problem, not for me, but I've always thought outside of the box. On the homestyle table i have designed, the homeowner can change the cushion blocks without taking the table apart, and install new rails with tighter pockets if desired. Full 42 point leveling system....but then, who's going to build it, and who's going to work on it right, when most installers today can't even perform the basics right.

Mr. Bond said:

1. Can/have you designed a table that you feel is "better" in quality and/or function than any table available to the average consumer?

If so, please show us.

2. If you are inclined to ponder such things, is there anything missing from the "best" tables out there.

If so, please describe it to us.


Please keep in mind that I'm not asking for so-called deficiencies of any current table.
In other words:
"I'd make one that doesn't break"
and
"these cushions suck"
..is not really the answer I'm looking for.

cheers

Click to expand...

One other point i think you're missing out on. Wouldn't you think in order for someone to design as you sugest, a new pool table, that they at least should have at least a minimum background knowledge of pool tables already designed built in the past and present? It takes more than drawing a pool table to create design change...LOL

realkingcobra said:

One other point i think you're missing out on. Wouldn't you think in order for someone to design as you sugest, a new pool table, that they at least should have at least a minimum background knowledge of pool tables already designed built in the past and present? It takes more than drawing a pool table to create design change...LOL

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Innovation comes from all places. Those who work on tables have a better sense of what is doable and their opinions are heavily influenced by prior experience. That can be good and bad.
Those with only history from a user perspective can come up with strange ideas, some innovative and some downright dumb.
Any data is good data, but common sense has to be applied before the assent line fires up.

I remember reading a story about a contest a toothpaste manufacturer had where it challenged its employees to come up with ideas to increase sales of paste. Winning idea? Make the dispensing hole bigger.

Mr. Bond said:

1. Can/have you designed a table that you feel is "better" in quality and/or function than any table available to the average consumer?

If so, please show us.

2. If you are inclined to ponder such things, is there anything missing from the "best" tables out there.

If so, please describe it to us.


Please keep in mind that I'm not asking for so-called deficiencies of any current table.
In other words:
"I'd make one that doesn't break"
and
"these cushions suck"
..is not really the answer I'm looking for.

cheers

Click to expand...

Just to put my take on the question in blue... Why would I do that?

I've sent ideas to manufacturers before, only to get a reply saying
"We are currently working on a similar design" or get no response
at all & then see a product come out that's very similar to my idea.

I don't think Brunswick or Diamond would put out a blueprint of an
idea they have for a new table design, before they manufacture it.

You have a good question there Mr. Bond.. But not one I'll answer.

.

Ralph Kramden said:

Just to put my take on the question in blue... Why would I do that?

I've sent ideas to manufacturers before, only to get a reply saying
"We are currently working on a similar design" or get no response
at all & then see a product come out that's very similar to my idea.

I don't think Brunswick or Diamond would put out a blueprint of an
idea they have for a new table design, before they manufacture it.

You have a good question there Mr. Bond.. But not one I'll answer.

.

Click to expand...

All valid points, been there, done that!!

Mr. Bond said:

1. Can/have you designed a table that you feel is "better" in quality and/or function than any table available to the average consumer?

If so, please show us.

2. If you are inclined to ponder such things, is there anything missing from the "best" tables out there.

If so, please describe it to us.


Please keep in mind that I'm not asking for so-called deficiencies of any current table.
In other words:
"I'd make one that doesn't break"
and
"these cushions suck"
..is not really the answer I'm looking for.

cheers

Click to expand...

Quite simply, the top of the line commercial tables, specifically the Diamond and the most recent Gold Crown models with the recessed pocket liners, offer the best available playing tables at this time, and are far and away superior to any of the home model furniture style tables. Of course they come at a price, and aesthetically may not be the look someone is looking for, for a home table, but are the best playing tables out there, for the discriminating player looking for the best.

My one beef with the Diamonds is lack of access to the ball returns. Chalk or other devices that fall in the pockets are almost impossible to get out of ball return. Over time they tend to fall out of the ball return but not always. I have lost chalk, chalk holders, tip tappers, tip sharpers, and loose change (playing one pocket).

Didn't happen to me but someone else lost their phone and it took 20 mins a coat hanger to coax it out.

Nick B said:

My one beef with the Diamonds is lack of access to the ball returns. Chalk or other devices that fall in the pockets are almost impossible to get out of ball return. Over time they tend to fall out of the ball return but not always. I have lost chalk, chalk holders, tip tappers, tip sharpers, and loose change (playing one pocket).

Didn't happen to me but someone else lost their phone and it took 20 mins a coat hanger to coax it out.

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I had to take apart a Valley table once, had 3 tampons tied together stuck right in the middle of the center ball return track, used at that. Some things like cell phones just don't belong near a coin op pool table, and i have yet to see a coin op pool table that wouldn't back the balls up when an ashtray was dropped in a corner pocket.

Mr. Bond said:

How about a touch-screen score keeper built into the rail, completely flush.
No more worries about broken dials or scratched cues.
And make it large/bright enough that if needed, you could see the score from almost anywhere around the table.

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Most so called pool table mechanics can't service pool tables correctly as it is today, and you're thinking about battery operated diamond lit up sights? Who's gking to fix them when they don't work anymore?

For bar boxes, how about installing a ball holder on the side of the table for balls 10-15 when you're playing 9-ball?

How about making ball returns much quieter and faster?

How about tables having a leveling meter that tells you when the table is too far out of tolerance and needs to be re-leveled?

How about making table leveling easier? (i.e. turning a few bolts to adjust the slate with a tool that is already attached to the table and a built in level)

How about suppliers making a few different sets of rails (recreational, pro cut, commercial, etc.) for the same table and having them easily swapped out with a few bolts?

How about having a trap/filter within the ball return which collects things that are dropped in the pockets and can be easily cleaned out without taking the table apart?

How about a chalk holder ledge that sits below the top of the table and out of sight?

How about a lighting system within the table that doesn't require a separate light above? (this might be a stretch lol)

How about a way to merge the magic rack into the slate? Similar to a tapped table without affecting the ball roll. For example, it could be magnetic and when you are racking you turn on the magnets until the balls are set. Then you turn off the magnets and break. Obviously a magnet wouldn't work because there is no metal but some sort of idea similar.

How about cloth that comes with a line on it telling you exactly how far to stretch it?

How about a clamp system on the table which holds the cloth rather than glue or staples?

How about a holder on the side of the table for a break cue? (similar to the bridge holder)

How about better maintenance manuals that come with tables?

How about some sort of built-in break cloth feature?

How about a scoring system to replace pennies under the rails which spectators can easily see?

How about a better location for the coin mechanism so we can all stop banging our knees on it? :wink:

How about a better coin mechanism in general where you don't have to force it in with both thumbs?

How about a chalk board on the side of the table where players can sign up to play next?

How about a ball return system that instantly cleans the balls every time they come through the return? (This would be amazing!)

How about a small but extremely effective and quiet vacuum on the side of the table for cleaning the felt within seconds?

Lots of ideas here. Some good some bad. I'm just spit-balling. I suppose you never know what the future holds

Nick B said:

My one beef with the Diamonds is lack of access to the ball returns. Chalk or other devices that fall in the pockets are almost impossible to get out of ball return. Over time they tend to fall out of the ball return but not always. I have lost chalk, chalk holders, tip tappers, tip sharpers, and loose change (playing one pocket).

Didn't happen to me but someone else lost their phone and it took 20 mins a coat hanger to coax it out.

Click to expand...

Ball returns are over-rated. Once you get used to playing on a table with drop pockets, you don't even think about it. Even for a player practicing by themselves, it's not that big a deal to spend 10-15 seconds circling around the table and getting the balls out of the pockets. The other big advantages of drop pockets - no noise at all as soon as the balls hit the bottom of the pocket, balls stay in much better condition due to not ever having to run through the ball return system, and balls, chalk, etc. never get stuck in the ball return system.

Mr. Bond said:

How about a touch-screen score keeper built into the rail, completely flush.
No more worries about broken dials or scratched cues.
And make it large/bright enough that if needed, you could see the score from almost anywhere around the table.

Click to expand...

I just threw-up in my mouth a little bit.

ChrisinNC said:

Ball returns are over-rated. Once you get used to playing on a table with drop pockets, you don't even think about it. Even for a player practicing by themselves, it's not that big a deal to spend 10-15 seconds circling around the table and getting the balls out of the pockets. The other big advantages of drop pockets - no noise at all as soon as the balls hit the bottom of the pocket, balls stay in much better condition due to not ever having to run through the ball return system, and balls, chalk, etc. never get stuck in the ball return system.

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I grew up on ball return, my first home table was drop pockets, now I have ball return at home.

I hope I never have to play on a drop pocket table again. Playing tough shape for a tough shot, so you don think have to go around to that far pocket...arg!