USPS shipping issue...shaft lost, insurance denied

KCRack'em

KCRack'em

I'm not argumentative!!!!
Silver Member
I bought a cue from a seller here on AZB ($300) and the shipping tube arrived open with the shaft missing. I paid by money order so I have the receipt to prove value, but USPS has denied the claim and my first appeal. First denial stated that I did not provide proof of value. I did provide what the local post office said to provide. I haven't received a reason for the second denial in the mail yet. I found out about it when I logged in to check on the status.
I need advice for my next appeal. I'm sure we have employees and customers among us who can help/have experience with this.
I also would like to know what I should expect from the seller if all appeals are exhausted. As it stands, I think we're far apart on this.
There is a lesson or two to be learned here:
Pack your tubes so that nothing will slide out if it comes open. Yes this requires more packing material, but may be well worth the extra effort.
Use stronger tape on the ends of the tube. I've researched it and found there to be a lot of varieties of tape available. Spend and extra buck or two for the good stuff.
 
LAlouie

LAlouie

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This won't help, but you should have taken a photo of the opened box, which I would think lays blame on the shipper.
 
marknyc

marknyc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd never send anything by USPS. They couldn't care less about you, your package, or any form of customer service.
 
azdiamondbacks1

azdiamondbacks1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
" Proof of Value" ? That sounds like an universal out clause for USPS
Hey Mr. Postal Manager- It makes it a little bit tough to prove the
value of the contents when your greasy postal worker with the
sticky fingers decides to help himself to the contents before said
package is delivered.
*
I am not Einstein or anything but couldn't they weigh the weight of the box
when they handed it to you and compare that with the weight the
shipper paid to ship said box ??
 
Rivhardo

Rivhardo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
insurance

I don't even bother buying insurance anymore. There is always a reason for not paying out. If I do, it is really just for a piece of mind for the buyer. They will probably come back it was not packed properly. Lots of threads on this.
 
J

justinb386

Banned
KCRack'em said:
I bought a cue from a seller here on AZB ($300) and the shipping tube arrived open with the shaft missing. I paid by money order so I have the receipt to prove value, but USPS has denied the claim and my first appeal. First denial stated that I did not provide proof of value. I did provide what the local post office said to provide. I haven't received a reason for the second denial in the mail yet. I found out about it when I logged in to check on the status.
I need advice for my next appeal. I'm sure we have employees and customers among us who can help/have experience with this.
I also would like to know what I should expect from the seller if all appeals are exhausted. As it stands, I think we're far apart on this.
There is a lesson or two to be learned here:
Pack your tubes so that nothing will slide out if it comes open. Yes this requires more packing material, but may be well worth the extra effort.
Use stronger tape on the ends of the tube. I've researched it and found there to be a lot of varieties of tape available. Spend and extra buck or two for the good stuff.
Click to expand...

This is very sad, and I am very sorry to hear about this. I think that one reason that the post office is not paying your insurance claim could be because it is probably the fault of the seller, for not using enough bubble wrap. When I pack anything in a shipping box or tube, I make it so tight, that nothing could possibly slide out, and I always use very strong mailing tape. Places like office depot sell a special type of mailing tape that is super strong and thicker then regular mailing tape, and that is the best stuff to use. If the shaft were shipped by me, then you would have never received the empty tube. I honestly think that the seller should refund your money, because this is most likely his or her fault, and not the fault of the postal service. Very sorry this happened to you. I hope that the seller is willing to refund at least some of the money back to you, because I think this issue is probably their fault.
 
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azdiamondbacks1

azdiamondbacks1

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
justinb386 said:
This is very sad, and I am very sorry to hear about this. I think that one reason that the post office is not paying your insurance claim could be because it is probably the fault of the seller, for not using enough bubble wrap. When I pack anything in a shipping box or tube, I make it so tight, that nothing could possibly slide out, and I always use very strong mailing tape. Places like office depot sell a special type of mailing tape that is super strong and thicker then regular mailing tape, and that is the best stuff to use. If the shaft were shipped by me, then you would have never received the empty tube. I honestly think that the seller should refund your money, because this is most likely his or her fault, and not the fault of the postal service. Very sorry this happened to you. I hope that the seller is willing to refund at least some of the money back to you, because I think this issue is probably their fault.
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I hate to play devil's advocate here but looking at it from the post offices point of view which they probably assume many of the insurance claims are fraudulent. "How do we know the shipper shipped anything other than a empty box"? How do we know the receiver didn't remove the contents before filing the missing contents claim ? So then they start in with their long list of requirements: prove you shipped something, prove the value of what you shipped, prove we did something negligent to lose it or damage it.

I think the only time the insurance would actually be of benefit would be if the delivery dude drops the package on the ground in front of you, backs the jeep over your package in front of you and you have it all on video. Other than that your probably SOL.
 
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J

JasBy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As silly as it sounds - they probably don't recognize what you paid as 'fair value.' You probably have to get either an 'expert' or the maker of the cue to quote you a replacement price for the shaft. I am guessing the reason for this is to keep dishonest people from 'paying' a friend thousands of dollars to ship a $100 cue incorrectly and then claiming purchase price as fair value. They are probably looking at the case as a partial loss since you have the butt of the cue, and they want to know the value of just the item that was missing from the package.
 
KCRack'em

KCRack'em

I'm not argumentative!!!!
Silver Member
JasBy said:
As silly as it sounds - they probably don't recognize what you paid as 'fair value.' You probably have to get either an 'expert' or the maker of the cue to quote you a replacement price for the shaft. I am guessing the reason for this is to keep dishonest people from 'paying' a friend thousands of dollars to ship a $100 cue incorrectly and then claiming purchase price as fair value. They are probably looking at the case as a partial loss since you have the butt of the cue, and they want to know the value of just the item that was missing from the package.
Click to expand...

That's possible and even makes sense. But my question is how do I value a dymondwood shaft when there is no dymondwood available? If there is, please tell me where...I need enough black for a shaft!
 
pulzcul

pulzcul

"Chasinrainbows"
Silver Member
For what its worth I had the same thing happen to me several years ago. Only I lost the butt and only rcvd the shaft. Rather than go through the frustration of filling out a claim I traced the route and called the post offices. They stash lost items and were happy to take a look for me. Didnt take long to find.
 
M

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
it is the sellers responsibility to get it to you in the condition you bought it as. so it is up to him to make you whole. he is fully responsible.

having said that you need a bill of sale from him for what you bought. that is proof of value. in it have him state what he sold and when he sent it and how.

next time for all. dont accept a damaged package. open it in front of who delivered it or have it taken back to their office depending on the company.

also when buying from anyone make it clear who is responsible for what.
especially when buying from an individual who may not be diligent on packaging or paying for his mistakes.

i personally wouldnt give a stranger in the poolroom 500 bucks first to go out and get a cue from his car, nor would i pay 500 bucks to a stranger on the web in advance unless he had a top reputation, an address i can find him at, a phone number, and a reference.
 
C

croscoe

Retired
Silver Member
Jasby gave you the best advice.

Lanye or Brick shaft? maybe one of them could assist in value.

Second weight of package when shipped should show likely the 6+ oz difference to show the shaft was in when sent.. 6+ is what my Layne BJ shaft weighs.

I've gone to videoing the package opening now as I open anything of value.

Good luck!
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the future, just do everything via the USPS vs. signed receipt......even if the carton was not showing signs of any abusive handling, I always have a pocket knife.......it takes a second to cut and open the box while the postman is there........just tell them you want to verify the shipper didn't rip you off sending an empty box and then mention also in case of any damage........or else arrange to have it shipped to your local post office and examine the contents of the box in the presence of a postal employee....empty boxes or damaged items can be noted on the receipt....any damage claim has to be initiated by the seller/shipper whom paid for the cost of any stated value insurance coverage.

I realize this is just hindsight advice and I hope you can get things ultimately resolved favorably for you.
 
KCRack'em

KCRack'em

I'm not argumentative!!!!
Silver Member
Bavafongoul said:
In the future, just do everything via the USPS vs. signed receipt......even if the carton was not showing signs of any abusive handling, I always have a pocket knife.......it takes a second to cut and open the box while the postman is there........just tell them you want to verify the shipper didn't rip you off sending an empty box and then mention also in case of any damage........or else arrange to have it shipped to your local post office and examine the contents of the box in the presence of a postal employee....empty boxes or damaged items can be noted on the receipt....any damage claim has to be initiated by the seller/shipper whom paid for the cost of any stated value insurance coverage.

I realize this is just hindsight advice and I hope you can get things ultimately resolved favorably for you.
Click to expand...

I appreciate all the responses and a PM about a possible maker for a replacement shaft.
Unfortunately, I didn't have to sign for the package, so it was left on my front porch. Somebody at the post office should have noted that the tube was open on one end, but that didn't happen. Shocking, huh?
Interestingly enough, nobody has mentioned that I should have used PayPal. I should have! Also noteworthy is that the seller left me to file the claim. As a seller, I would have issued a refund and then pursued the claim.
Live and learn.
 
Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Paypal sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.......Paypal doesn't release the funds to the seller until the buyer affirms the transaction is good........if there's a dispute, Paypal doesn't automatically side with the buyer and return your funds.......the money gets held until the buyer and seller resolve their differences........sounds like that wouldn't have happened but Paypal is a safety net of a sort........but not when the seller can show proof of delivery, even if the carton was empty. With the current situation, only examining the carton upon delivery in the presence of the delivery person would have afforded you more protection.
 
speedy5963

speedy5963

speedy5963
Silver Member
That is too bad to hear, I shipped a shaft to a friend to try out via USPS, it was wrapped up very well, in a tub that was sealed very well. When he received the tube, it was cut open, top was gone and it was empty, there was stamp that the post office in PA used, said item damaged upon arrival??? So sometime from the office in San Jose CA to PA someone cut into it, removed the contents and then processed. In the end my buddy received an empty tube, post office said it couldn't of been an employee??? Go figure, sealed tube taken in, empty damaged tube delivered??? Not a huge fan of USPS
 
fastone371

fastone371

Certifiable
Silver Member
I am not sure why people who regularly ship cues do not use PVC with 1 glued on cap and 1 screwed on cap to prevent damage and hopefully theft.
When I had to ship my Gold Crown rails for sub-rail modification not only did I insure them for the price of a new table (whats my GC worth without rails?) I made very heavy duty wood shipping crates with mechanical fasteners. I just did not trust cardboard and shipping tape for the transport and handling.
 
D

Dockter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
fastone371 said:
I am not sure why people who regularly ship cues do not use PVC with 1 glued on cap and 1 screwed on cap to prevent damage and hopefully theft.
When I had to ship my Gold Crown rails for sub-rail modification not only did I insure them for the price of a new table (whats my GC worth without rails?) I made very heavy duty wood shipping crates with mechanical fasteners. I just did not trust cardboard and shipping tape for the transport and handling.
Click to expand...

To add on to that... PLEASE wrap the cue and or shaft in bubble wrap first.. Don't just throw the cue/shaft in a pvc pipe and think you are good to go.
 
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