PFD Saved The Cortland-Old Josswest's Refinished

cuesblues · Jun 24, 2017

Still packing & moving and no lighting available for decent pics

These just back from Paul Drexler, two more really old Josswest's.
Paul saved the Cortland on one, and did a fantastic job matching the stain and saving/cleaning the Cortland.
We went with leather on the other cue for something different.
Too bad I don't have a "before" pic because these were not in good condition.

I did play with both of these cues yesterday and used both the original shafts with Searing Precision mediums, yellow micarta ferrules as well as the shafts Paul made with yellow micarta ferrules, Moori jewel tips.
Really good players all around.

Sealegs50 · Jun 25, 2017

Beautiful work. Worth the expense and effort. I am not a collector and do not appreciate the value of an old cue that is in too poor condition for play. Reconditioning work that keeps older classics active as players is great in my opinion.

Do you know if Paul cleaned the wrap while keeping it on the cue or did he remove/clean/reinstall?

Ken_4fun · Jun 25, 2017

Wow those are beauties....

I am a big fan of Josswest cues from that era.

Pfd does incredible work, as usual, so no surprise there.

Great cues.

Ken

cuesblues · Jun 25, 2017

Sealegs50 said:
Beautiful work. Worth the expense and effort. I am not a collector and do not appreciate the value of old cue that is in too poor condition for play. Reconditioning work that keeps older classics active as players is great in my opinion.

Do you know if Paul cleaned the wrap while keeping it on the cue or did he remove/clean/reinstall?

Good question
I'll ask him tomorrow morning

TILT9 · Jun 26, 2017

wow! yeah baby!

Type79 · Jun 26, 2017

Sealegs50 said:
Do you know if Paul cleaned the wrap while keeping it on the cue or did he remove/clean/reinstall?

Paul has cleaned linen as well as nylon wraps on a number of my cues. On those cues, the wraps were not removed from the cues.

Attached are pics of a Paradise that Paul recently cleaned.

Chopdoc · Jun 26, 2017

Beautiful work.

AFAIK, removing the old linen for cleaning isn't really an option. It will usually break if you try to take it off from what I hear. Plus you would then have to deal with getting the glue off it. I em betting it was left in place. If any of it is loose then I would guess that is repaired first then cleaned.

But of course, I could be way off.

Both of the cues are excellent examples of players of that era. Really nice to see top notch restoration work on them. Well worthwhile IMHO.

I do wish we could see "before" pics, but at least we get to see the finished work and I appreciate that.

Thanks for showing off! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

.

Type79 · Jun 26, 2017

Trust me, removing the old wrap is an option.

cuesblues · Jun 26, 2017

Chopdoc said:
Beautiful work.

AFAIK, removing the old linen for cleaning isn't really an option. It will usually break if you try to take it off from what I hear. Plus you would then have to deal with getting the glue off it. I em betting it was left in place. If any of it is loose then I would guess that is repaired first then cleaned.

But of course, I could be way off.

Both of the cues are excellent examples of players of that era. Really nice to see top notch restoration work on them. Well worthwhile IMHO.

I do wish we could see "before" pics, but at least we get to see the finished work and I appreciate that.

Thanks for showing off! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

.

I could of played with them "before" the restoration.
I've purchased quite a few old Josswests, four had nicks, cracked ivory ferrules,
wrap issues, etc, and twelve or so are in really good condition, some look new.
Miraculously only two shafts were bad, a few have small but insignificant rolls, and many are dead straight.
Some of the shafts are only 12.0, mm and look like they were ordered that way, still straight and everything.
Anyway pfd made 4-matching shafts, 13.0 mm with original yellow micarta ferrules,
and I haven't completely decided which cues to add them to.
The original shafts play great with new Precision medium tips.

There is one more Jw that needs some work, no nicks or shaft issues, but
most of the finish is gone.
A few inches up from the A-joint the finish stops.
I hate to mess with it and I think it was a special ordered cuee with no veneers, ivory butt cap, Brazilian rosewood or cocobolo.
All of the other Josswest's I've seen like that have been ebony.
The ebony one in this thread I think was a special order too...4-pointer, no veneers, but MOP inlays.
Reminds me more of a Tim Scruggs cue, and if it had veneers it would almost match my Tascarella.

WildWing · Jun 26, 2017

I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that Paul left the wrap on to clean it.

All the best,
WW

Chopdoc · Jun 26, 2017

Type79 said:
Trust me, removing the old wrap is an option.

Wow. Very cool.

That looks like salvaged linen though, or am I mistaken?

But removing it just to clean it, and risk breaking it? Is that commonly done?

.

Chopdoc · Jun 27, 2017

cuesblues said:
I could of played with them "before" the restoration.
I've purchased quite a few old Josswests, four had nicks, cracked ivory ferrules,
wrap issues, etc, and twelve or so are in really good condition, some look new.
Miraculously only two shafts were bad, a few have small but insignificant rolls, and many are dead straight.
Some of the shafts are only 12.0, mm and look like they were ordered that way, still straight and everything.

The "original" shafts I have for my old block letter Joss are JW shafts. They are what I got with it in 1985. They are seriously excellent shafts.

I was always frustrated to not have the original Joss shafts though, so I did finally source a pair of them in excellent condition with exactly the right rings and with ivory ferrules. Not easy to find.

At first I thought to sell the two JW shafts, but they aren't going anywhere. :thumbup:

.

cuesblues · Jun 27, 2017

Chopdoc said:
The "original" shafts I have for my old block letter Joss are JW shafts. They are what I got with it in 1985. They are seriously excellent shafts.

I was always frustrated to not have the original Joss shafts though, so I did finally source a pair of them in excellent condition with exactly the right rings and with ivory ferrules. Not easy to find.

At first I thought to sell the two JW shafts, but they aren't going anywhere. :thumbup:

.

I'll trade you something cool for the Josswest shafts

:smile:

Chopdoc · Jun 27, 2017

cuesblues said:
I'll trade you something cool for the Josswest shafts

:smile:

Thanks but these are still my playing shafts for both my block letter Joss cues as well as my Dayton.

Over the years I have considered having the rings matched to my Joss cues. They currently have the same original rings as the cues in this post.

I have also toyed with the idea of grabbing a JW butt for them. Occasionally one comes up with no shaft or an odd cheap replacement shaft.

In any case they are keepers. Stroud knew how to select wood and turn a shaft, that's for sure.

Thank you for the kind offer. :smile:
.

cuesblues · Jun 27, 2017

WildWing said:
I would bet a dollar to a doughnut that Paul left the wrap on to clean it.

All the best,
WW

Well I'll be damned

About a buck eighty five here in Denver .
Paul did clean the wrap while it was still on the cue.
I would have bet otherwise.

WildWing · Jun 27, 2017

cuesblues said:
Well I'll be damned

About a buck eighty five here in Denver .
Paul did clean the wrap while it was still on the cue.
I would have bet otherwise.

The reason for that, by the way, is the cuemaker has to cut the linen to start the unravel. They usually start the cut somewhat down the farearm, maybe a half inch to an inch or so. That way, the cuemaker doesn't gouge the forearm at the top of the wrap, which might be the case, to save the whole wrap. The very start of the wrap groove is very vulnerable if you try to cut the linen off at the very top.

By the way, very nice JossWest, glad the linen was saved and cleaned. Magnificent old cue.

All the best,
WW

Chopdoc · Jun 27, 2017

WildWing said:
The reason for that, by the way, is the cuemaker has to cut the linen to start the unravel. They usually start the cut somewhat down the farearm, maybe a half inch to an inch or so. That way, the cuemaker doesn't gouge the forearm at the top of the wrap, which might be the case, to save the whole wrap. The very start of the wrap groove is very vulnerable if you try to cut the linen off at the very top.

By the way, very nice JossWest, glad the linen was saved and cleaned. Magnificent old cue.

All the best,
WW

From what I understand, even if you manage to get it loose at the end it can easily break if you try to remove it. It is glued on after all. I suppose heat or solvents could help get it off.

If it is decades old it is degraded to some extent. It is a plant fiber exposed to lots of bacteria from your hands. It essentially rots. It can still be cleaned and look nice, but is a lot more fragile than when it was new.

I imagine that the worse it looks, the more degraded it is, and hence more fragile.

Of course, if the glue is broken down it may come off more easily. But why try it if not needed? Once it is off you have glue on the linen. Putting it back with the glue side down would be very tedious, and cleaning all that glue off would be difficult as well.

.

.

WildWing · Jun 27, 2017

Chopdoc said:
From what I understand, even if you manage to get it loose at the end it can easily break if you try to remove it. It is glued on after all. I suppose heat or solvents could help get it off.

If it is decades old it is degraded to some extent. It is a plant fiber exposed to lots of bacteria from your hands. It essentially rots. It can still be cleaned and look nice, but is a lot more fragile than when it was new.

I imagine that the worse it looks, the more degraded it is, and hence more fragile.

Of course, if the glue is broken down it may come off more easily. But why try it if not needed? Once it is off you have glue on the linen. Putting it back with the glue side down would be very tedious, and cleaning all that glue off would be difficult as well.

Correct, and there are other problems with trying to unravel and save the linen for rewrap. For example, at the top of the wrap, usually the wrap goes in a small drilled hole with glue, same glue as the rest of the forearm. The days of overlaying the wrap over a small section of the wrap at the top are over. Anyhow, the top of the wrap often doesn't come clean out of the hole; it has to be re-drilled. Then you would get into a length of wrap problem, with trying to clean, and put the same wrap onto the same forearm. It just wouldn't work very well. Maybe some have done it, but it's not practical. I've witnessed it enough times.

The cleaning, whether a mild bleach solution, mild peroxide, or just damp rag, is best done with the wrap still on the cue, assuming it's still tight and not unraveling. After all, it's really only the surface of the wrap that's being cleaned, then pressed. There are a whole host of problems with removing the wrap for cleaning, and you've covered them.

All the best,
WW

Sealegs50 · Jun 27, 2017

cuesblues said:
Paul did clean the wrap while it was still on the cue.
I would have bet otherwise.

I have been told previously that remove/clean/reinstall is possible albeit labor intensive and expensive. From all I have heard, Paul is willing and capable of tackling problems unconventionally. That was why I asked. Anybody who salvages classic linen gets an “A” in my scorecard.

Thanks for the follow-up and the other responses.

Type79 · Jun 27, 2017

WildWing said:
The days of overlaying the wrap over a small section of the wrap at the top are over.

Is this something that's developed in the last ten minutes?

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