Perfect Aim

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Bottom line is that straightening out the stroke has significantly improved my shot making and fine position play, and I was running 70's and 80's in straight pool even before then. I decided if I wanted to run 100's regularly then I had to step up my game.

So are you running 100's yet? Better question is have you run one 100 yet?

You are talking about professional players who have done virtually nothing in their life but hone their swing. Out of a million guys who do it wrong you find one Lee Travino who does it all wrong but gets it right at impact.

Not quite true. The #1 player in the world right now is Dustin Johnson and he has been for over a year. He has an extremely bowed left wrist position at the top of his swing which is not taught.

They you also have Jim Furyk and Ryan Moore who take it straight up in the air on the backswing with a huge loop to the back and inside on the downswing. Even Jordan Spieth has a funky finish after impact which they call a "chicken wing". There are more but I can't think of them right now.


The rest of us who have stroke problems do not get it right at impact. The proof for me is that I had concluded at one time that I just could not play the game of pool if I had to hit the ball with speed and at any distance. That isn't a problem any more.

I should stipulate that I do not yet have 100% perfect cue delivery all the time. I'm still working out some details, at which point I will try to ingrain that stroke and make it automatic.

Glad to see we're back to pool and not outing other AZ members and seeing what celebrity they look like. :thumbup:

What makes you think I'm finished? :grin:
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What makes you think I'm finished? :grin:

You missed my point. The one thing all those guys with funky swings have in common is that when it counts, at impact, the club face is exactly where it needs to be. For every Furyk that makes it there are a million that aren't able to get the club face where it needs to be. Those million players would have better odds of achieving a higher level if they could perfect mechanics because they just aren't able to make it work like the Furyk's do.

However, the golf analogy breaks down for pool. Pool is more simple. If the cue moves straight back, straight into the cb at contact and straight follow through, in other words "all straight all the time," then if you can see center ball the cue ball HAS to go where you are pointing the cue (ignoring english and all that for this discussion). How can that not be a good thing?

What does your pal Allen say about all this?
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
You missed my point.

I didn't miss any point.

The one thing all those guys with funky swings have in common is that when it counts, at impact, the club face is exactly where it needs to be.

100% true. So why mess with success? What is chasing the "perfect swing" going to do for them except ruin their game?

For every Furyk that makes it there are a million that aren't able to get the club face where it needs to be. Those million players would have better odds of achieving a higher level if they could perfect mechanics because they just aren't able to make it work like the Furyk's do.

Also accurate and true. But the point I was trying to make is there are a number of pro players who don't have perfect swings and positions in golf, pool, or other sports.

However, the golf analogy breaks down for pool. Pool is more simple. If the cue moves straight back, straight into the cb at contact and straight follow through, in other words "all straight all the time," then if you can see center ball the cue ball HAS to go where you are pointing the cue (ignoring english and all that for this discussion). How can that not be a good thing?

It should be a good thing but maybe not necessary in the way of a life long quest for the perfect stroke. ALL STROKES and golf swings break down in one degree or another under pressure with nerves, elevated heart rate, tension, and adrenaline.

The other factor is many players from pros to long time playing good amateurs do things on purpose in their stroke which precludes the straight back and straight through. Like dynamic BHE, tuck and roll, etc. The Filipino players have the tip of their cue either on the cloth or off to one side or the other and end up striking the ball anywhere and everywhere on the face.


What does your pal Allen say about all this?

Allen isn't interested in analyzing and teaching. I've tried dragging things out of him and it's like pulling teeth.

Allen has been criticized himself by forum hack players who think they know everything when it comes to the distance of his bridge hand from the CB and shortness of his stroke. He could care less. There isn't one member on pool forums that would even qualify to carry his jockstrap let alone beat him in any pool game invented.

You never answered my question. Are you now running multiple 100's or run ONE 100 yet from all the stroke analyzing and changes.
 
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bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
spidey
if someone is not gifted
and cant /didnt put thousands of hours into playing pool since a young age
and
you had to teach them how to play
would you teach them "conventional " mechanics (we are talking cueing NOT AIMING ..:) :thumbup: )
or let them develop their quirks??
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
spidey
if someone is not gifted
and cant /didnt put thousands of hours into playing pool since a young age
and
you had to teach them how to play
would you teach them "conventional " mechanics (we are talking cueing NOT AIMING ..:) :thumbup: )
or let them develop their quirks??

It goes without saying whether I was teaching someone or they learned from a pro instructor, it should be with conventional instruction covering the FUNDAMENTALS to build a strong base.

However, eventually everyone takes their own direction and very few stick with a pro instructor for any length of time.

IF they get to a fairly decent playing level, I think they should be introduced to other ways of playing that deviate from pure parallel aiming for English and especially aiming.

I'd miss more than 50% of all my shots now if I had to go back to parallel offset for English.
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Allen isn't interested in analyzing and teaching. I've tried dragging things out of him and it's like pulling teeth.

Allen has been criticized himself by forum hack players who think they know everything when it comes to the distance of his bridge hand from the CB and shortness of his stroke. He could care less. There isn't one member on pool forums that would even qualify to carry his jockstrap let alone beat him in any pool game invented.

You never answered my question. Are you now running multiple 100's or run ONE 100 yet from all the stroke analyzing and changes.

You are exhausting to try and have a conversation with because you refuse to reply in the proper format. You absolutely missed my point. I said that the successful golfers who have unorthodox strokes have one thing in common, that they have the club face in the correct position when it counts. You went on to give me a list of top pros who have unorthodox mechanics yet at are at the top of the game. That wasn't my point. Reread.

I have not run 100 mostly because I have not tried to. I have had a long and time consuming journey. I have other responsibilities so with the time I have for playing pool I devoted it to mechanics and drills to test those mechanics. Occasionally I'll run a couple of racks to test things out and can see that I am a better player now. I can do things that I wasn't so confident in before. Once I'm satisfied with my mechanics, which is pretty close, then I'll get back to actually playing the game and we'll see what happens.

I appreciate the normal discussion, but I'm just not going to respond any more to things you type inside of quoted text. If you write something that shows up in quotes like the stuff about Allen above, then I'll address it. Otherwise it's just too annoying to figure out how to reply.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
You are exhausting to try and have a conversation with because you refuse to reply in the proper format. You absolutely missed my point. I said that the successful golfers who have unorthodox strokes have one thing in common, that they have the club face in the correct position when it counts. You went on to give me a list of top pros who have unorthodox mechanics yet at are at the top of the game. That wasn't my point. Reread.

I'm getting exhausted myself. The point I was trying to make is
IF ONLY A PERFECT SWING AND FUNDAMENTALS WILL GUARANTEE A SQUARE CLUB FACE AT IMPACT, HOW IS IT THAT AN IMPERFECT SWING AND POSITIONS ALLOW THEM TO DO THE SAME THING AT IMPACT? THEY SHOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO IT WITH THE CONSISTENCY OF THE PERFECT SWINGS. THOSE IMPERFECT SWINGS AND FUNDAMENTALS HAVE WON MORE TOURNAMENTS AND MONEY OVER THEIR CAREER THAN MANY OF THE PERFECT ONES.


I have not run 100 mostly because I have not tried to. I have had a long and time consuming journey. I have other responsibilities so with the time I have for playing pool I devoted it to mechanics and drills to test those mechanics. Occasionally I'll run a couple of racks to test things out and can see that I am a better player now. I can do things that I wasn't so confident in before. Once I'm satisfied with my mechanics, which is pretty close, then I'll get back to actually playing the game and we'll see what happens.

Chasing perfection is a never ending chase. You're too old for starters and too ingrained.

I appreciate the normal discussion, but I'm just not going to respond any more to things you type inside of quoted text. If you write something that shows up in quotes like the stuff about Allen above, then I'll address it. Otherwise it's just too annoying to figure out how to reply.

Well adios. I'm not changing. But it has been a pleasure.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
I'm pretty sure you are not capable of learning new things. Too ingrained and all.

I'm sure Gene has lost track of this thread, so thanks for that.

I'm sure Gene will answer if he wants to answer. He's about as stand up a man as can be out in the pool world.

Right, I'm mired in mediocrity and staying that way. :rolleyes: :boring2:
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm sure Gene will answer if he wants to answer. He's about as stand up a man as can be out in the pool world.

Right, I'm mired in mediocrity and staying that way. :rolleyes: :boring2:

Gene will answer if he finds my post way back a page or two. Not everybody gets automatic notifications of new messages and they tend to not see everything. Not that big a deal, though.

Honestly, if either of us were too stuck in our ways and not looking to improve then neither of us would be so active on AZ. Tell me how many people change dominant eye after decades of play (on and off as it is).
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You are exhausting to try and have a conversation with because you refuse to reply in the proper format. You absolutely missed my point. I said that the successful golfers who have unorthodox strokes have one thing in common, that they have the club face in the correct position when it counts. You went on to give me a list of top pros who have unorthodox mechanics yet at are at the top of the game. That wasn't my point. Reread.

I have not run 100 mostly because I have not tried to. I have had a long and time consuming journey. I have other responsibilities so with the time I have for playing pool I devoted it to mechanics and drills to test those mechanics. Occasionally I'll run a couple of racks to test things out and can see that I am a better player now. I can do things that I wasn't so confident in before. Once I'm satisfied with my mechanics, which is pretty close, then I'll get back to actually playing the game and we'll see what happens.

I appreciate the normal discussion, but I'm just not going to respond any more to things you type inside of quoted text. If you write something that shows up in quotes like the stuff about Allen above, then I'll address it. Otherwise it's just too annoying to figure out how to reply.


whew!

Lou Figueroa
still safe :)
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Gene will answer if he finds my post way back a page or two. Not everybody gets automatic notifications of new messages and they tend to not see everything. Not that big a deal, though.
.

It sounds like it's a big deal to you so here's a solution. Copy and paste it for a repost here at the end. And then quit posting so it doesn't get buried again.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
It goes without saying whether I was teaching someone or they learned from a pro instructor, it should be with conventional instruction covering the FUNDAMENTALS to build a strong base.

However, eventually everyone takes their own direction and very few stick with a pro instructor for any length of time.

IF they get to a fairly decent playing level, I think they should be introduced to other ways of playing that deviate from pure parallel aiming for English and especially aiming.

I'd miss more than 50% of all my shots now if I had to go back to parallel offset for English.
thanks for the response
what happens after the foundation is set is another story
:)
carry on men
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It sounds like it's a big deal to you so here's a solution. Copy and paste it for a repost here at the end. And then quit posting so it doesn't get buried again.

1. That won't solve the problem. It will only make it even more difficult to understand continued back and forths.
2. Why would I bother since you can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes to learn how to do it properly?
3. Answer to 2: Dave will never do it because then it will look like you listened to me. That would show more maturity than you can muster, so again, it'll never happen. Such a conundrum!

Expecting Dave's reply: No I'm not the immature one, you are! lol You can have the last word if you want it.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
thanks for the response
what happens after the foundation is set is another story
:)
carry on men

After the foundation it depends on a lot of things. How developed they are with the basics, how much time they want to put into being at a pool table, where they want to take their game, willingness to learn and experiment, natural hand eye coordination, mental attitude, and the list goes on.

I guess you know it when you see it because they're the ones always seeking to learn and find more.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
1. That won't solve the problem. It will only make it even more difficult to understand continued back and forths.
2. Why would I bother since you can't be bothered to spend 5 minutes to learn how to do it properly?
3. Answer to 2: Dave will never do it because then it will look like you listened to me. That would show more maturity than you can muster, so again, it'll never happen. Such a conundrum!

Expecting Dave's reply: No I'm not the immature one, you are! lol You can have the last word if you want it.

I thought you said you weren't going to post to me any more. What happened because you keep going on and on.? Are you just an habitual liar?

I guess you can't get it through your thick skull because I've said it a few times before. It is not my intention to make life easier on you so we can post more to each other.

Anything that stops this crap is fine with me. I don't know why you're in the Aiming Forum to begin with. If you have so much to say just take a hike to the 14.1 or Main forum where you'll do more good and have something of value to discuss without all the wise ass comments and barbs.
 
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