US Bar Table Championships to be Mosconi Cup Points Events! Feb 16-22, Reno, NV

ThIS HAS TO STOP !

I'm reading the whole post, And all I keep thinking is , PEOPLE NEED TO WAKE UP ! The game needs positive energy. Don't assume anything is going on behind the scenes ,if we don't know for sure. What do we really want? We want people like Mark Griffin , Turning stone promoter, Matchroom sports and who ever else is MAKING A EFFORT to help the Game. We know the game needs help , So what are you doing to help it? Just ask yourself that question. Baxter , you know me ,I've played this game all my life. I have a lot of respect for it . In fact my company was started with one of our goals being to help the game and it's image , thru our billiard clothing line. This thread is useless , you know why, because we nedd everybody to start thinking differently. We need the Mark Griffins , The Ozzy Reynolds , The Lee brett's , The matchroom promoters , The Baxter's . , Are you getting my point! we need everybody to stop pulling away , and start trying to show the support That all the organizations involved not only here in the United States , but everywhere, are trying to help the game. I'm not going to sit here and say some of the things that are going on now in the game are right, but lets give these people a chance to help without the negativity, and the maybe this is happening because of this ,or why was he picked to be captain, why was he not on the team. My point is simple . FIND SOMETHING POSITIVE in what these people are trying to do. KEEP IT POSITIVE. Every negative response creates the friction, which we don't need.

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I know Frank. I'm not sitting here trying to be a hater, I'm just adding my 2 cents from my perspective. I think this announcement is a little too coincidental, that's all. I have nothing but respect for CSI and what they do for pool. I fully support Mark and his organization. Pool is in a shitty place when major events are getting scheduled on top of each other while we go months without anything.

Baxter said:

Frankly, high calibre professional pool isn't ever going to appeal to mainstream audiences. Just like high calibre professional golf doesn't appeal to mainstream audiences. Golf has acceptance because it's a widely played game by a desirable market, yet it still isn't as mainstream as football or baseball. Pool is nearly the same, except that by American mainstream stereotypes the market for pool isn't considered to be desirable. We can't keep watering down the game in the hopes of attracting something that will probably never happen. Professional pool needs to played on a professional level. Watering it down into bar table pool does nothing for anyone. Not everything about pool can pander to a crowd that isn't interested.

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I'm not implying that professional pool or pool in any form will ever reach a market the size of football or baseball.

However, right now, pool is leaving a lot of money on the table.

I was 40 before I ever hit my first pool ball. Why? I didn't really know anyone who played a lot, felt awkward just walking into a pool hall and trying it and just didn't know anything about it. It doesn't take much to convert someone from cautious first timer to beginner and enthusiast but it doesn't take much to run them off at that stage either.

And once people start learning a new sport they want a goal. They want something train for and aspire to and these days, they would prefer that was a destination event. Running has made a huge business out of convincing local running clubs that they really want to go run larger marathons that none of their members have any hope of even placing in. And, as a result, they have fueled greater interest among those runners in the professional aspects of the sport as well.

I think the USBTC is a great event for local pool players to go participate in even though they stand no chance of winning it. They have something to practice for, a big event to look forward to and it gives professional pool a chance to reach more people.

And the fact that it is now tied in some small way to the Mosconi Cup may actually increase a little awareness about that too.

itsfroze said:

Right, most American players don't attend World Championships, but how many foreign players and foreign players that live
here would attend the bar table events if the WPA World 10-Ball weren't being held at the same time.

Matchroom wouldn't necessarily care, but do you think it's a stretch to say CSI might ?

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Only ones I can think of who have played in the past who won't this year are Thorsten and Daz. Maybe a couple pinoys but you never knew if they would show up or not anyway.

itsfroze said:

I would be shocked if anyone didn't think that points being awarded to CSI's Bar Table events by Matchroom
toward MC doesn't have something to do with the fact that the WPA World 10-Ball is being held at the same time.

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Then I think you should be shocked. Matchroom decided to do a points series this year. Go look and see how many events in the US could they sanction to tally those points. Derby was the first possible one of the year and they just got in under the wire there. It's not like there are twenty big events they have to pick from.

The timing of this announcement will have zero effect on four week old World 10 Ball little to no effect on the USBTC. The most it will do is get a very few players who otherwise would have sat at home that week. What it does do though is give Matchroom a head start on building buzz for December of this year and adds a little prestige to the USBTC.

As someone inside the industry I assure you it is no way capable of conspiracies for the simple fact it is entirely too jacked up for that type of coordination or cooperation.

Baxter said:

They wouldn't. But think about this. This move isn't to "save" this event this year. The entries are already in after all. This is to pay dividends for next year. After all, this is mostly an amateur event. Most of the entries for this event come from amateur players, and a lot of the allure of the event for amateurs is the possibility of playing a pro. Now if no pro players show up this year because of the World 10-ball event, that could affect the entries for next years event.

"Man, I spent over a grand to play in all the events at USBTC for the chance to play a pro, and there wasn't a single one there."

Do you think that person is going to sign up again next year? Probably not. Now, how many amateur bar box pool players are knowledgeable on the list of top world players? Do they know that there are several Taiwanese, Chinese, and Filipino players that are better than the US pro's that have name value to them? Probably not. So if they can make the USBTC a Mosconi Cup qualifier this year, and draw the American players with names the target market can identify, they've achieved their goal for all intended purposes. A few is better than none at all.

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Have you ever been to the USBTC? The people who go to play there do it either to try and win or go every year as a social event. A lot of those pro's get more than they can handle from amateurs on those small tracks. Hell a full time flight attendant snapped off one event not long ago. I promise you he wasnt there to bask in the glow of pro players.

I would wager that if CSI barred the top 30 pros it would quickly increase entries. There are a lot more short stops and bar table monsters out there willing to take a shot at winning than there are pool fans willing to take a week of vacation, pay entry and hotel just to be able to ride next to Shane in the elevator.

nominated for Post of the Year 2015

JCIN said:

....As someone inside the industry I assure you it is no way capable of conspiracies for the simple fact it is entirely too jacked up for that type of coordination or cooperation.

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What doesn't make sense about the "conspiracy theory" is that CSI would be happy being a Mosconi points tourney no matter what. A little extra marketing and attention - not much probably, but what's the downside?

It's hard to take a conspiracy theory seriously when the motivation is so obvious and upfront that it requires no conspiracy. It's like saying it's a conspiracy for a company to sell their product, or a politician to get elected, or an athlete to want to win.

Holding a full-time job outside of the billiard industry and winning an event at USBTC is quite an accomplishment! Cheers to the flight attendant!!

Well we have finally moved into conspiracy mode just like almost all the
Most significant threads do.
But let us start with SVB. He could sit in his little fishing boat from now until
October and he is still going to get a place on the team. So he has the luxury
Of being totally free to do as he chooses. He can go to the Philippines for the
World 10 Ball or he could go and spend a week with Mark Griffin. The points
From either are not an issue for him. Now the sensible thing would be to go
The WPA route because those points allow him to maintain his position on
Their ranking list.
Matchroom Mosconi Cup Points events can all be ignored if he pleases.
The effect of this would mean that there are three spots for MMCP
Competing Players (excluding Shane) and this only leaves one wildcard.

pro9dg said:

Well we have finally moved into conspiracy mode just like almost all the
Most significant threads do.
But let us start with SVB. He could sit in his little fishing boat from now until
October and he is still going to get a place on the team. So he has the luxury
Of being totally free to do as he chooses. He can go to the Philippines for the
World 10 Ball or he could go and spend a week with Mark Griffin. The points
From either are not an issue for him. Now the sensible thing would be to go
The WPA route because those points allow him to maintain his position on
Their ranking list.
Matchroom Mosconi Cup Points events can all be ignored if he pleases.
The effect of this would mean that there are three spots for MMCP
Competing Players (excluding Shane) and this only leaves one wildcard.

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And that's only if SVB sits in his fishing boat the rest of the year.

My bet is that SVB still earns one of the top 3 spots, even is he skips the bar table event to play in the Ten Ball one.

Matchroom just don’t throw things together. What they have done so
Far by including CSI events is to put The Mosconi Cup in front of a very
Large new audience It could also be the catalyst that motivates other
Promoters to start creating fresh events which I am sure that MR will
Be happy to incorporate into their MMCP.
As far as date clashes are concerned surely the ultimate scenario would
Be a major event every week in the USA, Europe, The Middle East and
Asia. Players then have the Choice to go and play where they want.

justadub said:

And that's only if SVB sits in his fishing boat the rest of the year.

My bet is that SVB still earns one of the top 3 spots, even is he skips the bar table event to play in the Ten Ball one.

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FYI. According to the entries list on the site, he's already signed up for the bar table event.

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Getting back to “deliberate” date clashes. The World 10 Ball was already on
The calendar albeit as The Manny Paquino Cup. All that the WPA did was to
Upgrade that to one of the two World Chamionships that they had hanging
on the peg World 10 Ball and the World 8 Ball. The MPC became the World
10 Ball.

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The bar table championships...aren't they representative of USA pool?

itsfroze said:

So the Manny Cup was already scheduled, but was that prior to CSI's dates for the bar box event ?

Anyone know if the WPA World 10-Ball are going to be playing "Bar Rules" call an
obvious straight in shot. Like the last tournament over there???
Just wondering. Thanks.

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Probably not. It was probably a back of an envelope job by Manny and just designed for a few close friend players. But the money was attractive and the WPA stepped in and adopted it. Before, it was low key and no real threat to the current CSI event.

The WPA have done this on other occasions. In 2002 they converted The World Classic into the World 8 Ball and another Middle East
tournament The Qatar Open was upgraded into the current World 9 Ball Championship

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