Advice about set-pause-finish

F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Roscue said:
Hello instructors!

Currently I'm looking for a good default setup/stance according to the set-pause-finish method. I try to keep my bridge length about 12 inches.

The link below is a video of me training this. As you can see, it goes wrong at the 'set' position (when the cuetip is at the object ball). My arm is yanked to the back where it should point vertically to the ground.

I've tried to correct this by gripping the cue more towards the middle. Unfortunately, that will cause my hand to collapse into the chest early and prevents a smooth follow through.

Any advice on how to correct this is highly appreciated! :smile:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0qyoZi2YM0
Click to expand...

Yes, it looks like you could use a slight stance adjustment. You seem to be compensating because you are hitting your chest early in the stroke, which is why you've moved your back hand farther back at address.

Try moving both feet 1 inch to the left of where you're currently standing. You may have to turn slightly more towards the cue stick as well. Tweaking involves tiny adjustments, and they're not always in just one direction. You may feel like you're leaning more to the right with this adjustment, but if you make the proper adjustment, it should feel like a slight lean right and back, which will keep you balanced.

Remember ---- the top half of your body is already leaning forward. Being balanced requires a counter lean with the bottom half. I know stance issues very well. You can trust me on this.
 
Roscue

Roscue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
Yes, it looks like you could use a slight stance adjustment. You seem to be compensating because you are hitting your chest early in the stroke, which is why you've moved your back hand farther back at address.

Try moving both feet 1 inch to the left of where you're currently standing. You may have to turn slightly more towards the cue stick as well. Tweaking involves tiny adjustments, and they're not always in just one direction. You may feel like you're leaning more to the right with this adjustment, but if you make the proper adjustment, it should feel like a slight lean right and back, which will keep you balanced.

Remember ---- the top half of your body is already leaning forward. Being balanced requires a counter lean with the bottom half. I know stance issues very well. You can trust me on this.
Click to expand...

Thanks FranCrimi, I will definitely try placing my feet a little bit more away from the shotline to the left, meaning the upperbody will turn a bit more to the right too to create more space for the stroke.
 
Roscue

Roscue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
For everyone here who is curious about the device on the table: it's a stroke trainer with many different modes. In the video you can see 'force mode'. This will force your arm to keep the cue on the line of aim as it doesn't allow for side movement. It's similar to the Cuetrack stroke trainer but this one is much more advanced. My stroke was completely crooked so I had to find a solution to straighten it.

Shouldn't take long before muscle memory kicks in, approximately 3 weeks or so if used daily.

After just 1 week, I noticed that much more longpots are starting to fall in already.
 
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BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
The CueTrack can be adjusted to allow more or less side movement also. At its toughest setting, it is very stringent.
 
Bob Jewett

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Roscue said:
That's right. Unfortunately I couldn't find a Cuetrack for sale as they are out of production.
Click to expand...
You could try contacting Joe Tucker directly. He may have some left. He is user "Joe T" here but doesn't post very often. According to his website, his email is joe@joetucker.net
 
B

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
bbb said:
http://www.thesnookergym.com/cueactiontrainer/
its about $500 usd with shipping i think
Click to expand...

Roscue said:
For everyone here who is curious about the device on the table: it's a stroke trainer with many different modes. In the video you can see 'force mode'. This will force your arm to keep the cue on the line of aim as it doesn't allow for side movement. It's similar to the Cuetrack stroke trainer but this one is much more advanced. My stroke was completely crooked so I had to find a solution to straighten it.

Shouldn't take long before muscle memory kicks in, approximately 3 weeks or so if used daily.

After just 1 week, I noticed that much more longpots are starting to fall in already.
Click to expand...

anyone looking into his device
i beleive based on the pm reply from roscue this is it
my link above
roscue can you confirm please
 
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S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is a complete fantasy. Everyone has a 'natural' bridge length, and a natural finish for the tip of the cue, that works well for most shots (even the break). These distances can be accurately measured. For some people it may be a longer bridge and a shorter finish. For others it may be a shorter bridge with a short or long finish. It's completely dependent on a player's build, body style, stance and how their swing arm works with their body style. It is not accurate that you should followthrough as far forward as you pull the cue backwards. Most American players have a comfortable working bridge length of 10-15"...and most of those have a natural finish between 3 and 8 inches.

The distance the cuetip travels past the CB after contact is irrelevent, as long as the swing is smooth, the transition from backwards to forwards is smooth, and the tip finishes on or near the cloth (which is exactly what will happen with no elbow drop...even when you aim high on the CB). For many pendulum stroke players the grip hand will naturally finish near or on the pectoral muscle, provided the grip is on the cue where the forearm hangs straight down below the elbow, when the tip is at the CB. As Fran mentioned, if you have more of a snooker stance, the finish will result where the biceps come to rest against the forearm...and the chest plays no role in the finish.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

BilliardsAbout said:
The follow through length in part is dictated by stroke pacing and leverage/thrust. A smoothly accelerating stroke of appropriate bridge length (!) should be about as long on the follow through as on the backstroke. And a stroke taken down to the cloth will be slowed by the bottom of the tip/ferrule scraping the cloth...
Click to expand...
 
F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
T ......As Fran mentioned, if you have more of a snooker stance, the finish will result where the biceps come to rest against the forearm...and the chest plays no role in the finish.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Nope. I didn't say anything like that.

The only requirement for the arm closure in the fixed elbow stroke is for the player to be standing low at the table. You don't have to have a "more of a snooker stance" to stand low at the table. There are stances where players stand low that aren't snooker stances.

And also --- there are some snooker stances where the player does finish into his chest. There are also some snooker stances where the player doesn't.
 
Ralph Kramden

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
Sorry, but this isn't true. When a player strokes with a fixed elbow, the common practice is that the lower part of the arm closes against the upper part of the arm. Whether the player hits himself in the chest is dependent on his stance. There are great, balanced stances that do not require the player to hit himself in his chest. I use one of them.
Click to expand...

Fran - I think snooker players have a tendency to close the lower part of the arm against the upper.
They'll get so low on the CB that the elbow is set very high and a shallow arm angle is then formed.

Folks who stand tall at the table may have some elbow drop to keep their cue level... as if breaking.

My preference is keeping the upper arm level with the table surface forming a 90 degree pendulum.

Then again, I'm not an instructor so how the hell would I know? Just observations for consideration.

.
 
F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Ralph Kramden said:
Fran - I think snooker players have a tendency to close the lower part of the arm against the upper.
They'll get so low on the CB that the elbow is set very high and a shallow arm angle is then formed.

Folks who stand tall at the table may have some elbow drop to keep their cue level... as if breaking.

My preference is keeping the upper arm level with the table surface forming a 90 degree pendulum.

Then again, I'm not an instructor so how the hell would I know? Just observations for consideration.

.
Click to expand...

Great observations.

Yup. I agree with what you wrote about snooker players. They stand low at the table and shoot with mainly a fixed elbow type of stroke. Some hit their chest in their follow through and some don't. That part depends on other factors, like the position of their feet relative to the line of the shot.

And yup, I agree with you again about folks who stand tall. They have to drop their elbows or the angle of the cue stick would be too severe.

As far as keeping your upper arm level with the table surface, I would imagine that you'd have to stand at a very specific height in order to accomplish that. I'm not sure that it's all that necessary to go through all that trouble, though, unless that particular height works best for your vision.
 
Roscue

Roscue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
This is a complete fantasy. Everyone has a 'natural' bridge length, and a natural finish for the tip of the cue, that works well for most shots (even the break). These distances can be accurately measured. For some people it may be a longer bridge and a shorter finish. For others it may be a shorter bridge with a short or long finish. It's completely dependent on a player's build, body style, stance and how their swing arm works with their body style. It is not accurate that you should followthrough as far forward as you pull the cue backwards. Most American players have a comfortable working bridge length of 10-15"...and most of those have a natural finish between 3 and 8 inches.

The distance the cuetip travels past the CB after contact is irrelevent, as long as the swing is smooth, the transition from backwards to forwards is smooth, and the tip finishes on or near the cloth (which is exactly what will happen with no elbow drop...even when you aim high on the CB). For many pendulum stroke players the grip hand will naturally finish near or on the pectoral muscle, provided the grip is on the cue where the forearm hangs straight down below the elbow, when the tip is at the CB. As Fran mentioned, if you have more of a snooker stance, the finish will result where the biceps come to rest against the forearm...and the chest plays no role in the finish.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

That's strange Scott, my hand finishes much lower than the pectoral muscle. It's more near the stomach as seen in the video. Does that mean I'm standing too high or low above the shot?
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Roscue...I watched the video, and I like most of what you're doing.
I think that you probably should open your stance a little, so that your body doesn't interfere with your grip hand finishing to your pec. That way your brain and body can "learn" your swing, so that it can become a habit. Then it's just a matter of speed control and grip pressure control.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Roscue said:
That's strange Scott, my hand finishes much lower than the pectoral muscle. It's more near the stomach as seen in the video. Does that mean I'm standing too high or low above the shot?
Click to expand...
 
Roscue

Roscue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Scott Lee said:
Roscue...I watched the video, and I like most of what you're doing.
I think that you probably should open your stance a little, so that your body doesn't interfere with your grip hand finishing to your pec. That way your brain and body can "learn" your swing, so that it can become a habit. Then it's just a matter of speed control and grip pressure control.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Thanks Scott, will certainly try this. I also noticed that my elbow is not in line with the cue. It 'hangs' a little to the right and when stroking forward it comes back in towards the body. Is this another thing to correct?
 
S

Scott Lee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Roscue...Only if you can't shoot the CB straight up and down the table (up and back to your tip). If not, then yes that needs to be addressed.
I've had several students who had a chicken wing or pronation, but could still deliver the cue in a straight line. That's what's important. :D

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

QUOTE=Roscue;5879352]Thanks Scott, will certainly try this. I also noticed that my elbow is not in line with the cue. It 'hangs' a little to the right and when stroking forward it comes back in towards the body. Is this another thing to correct?[/QUOTE]
 
F

FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Roscue said:
Thanks Scott, will certainly try this. I also noticed that my elbow is not in line with the cue. It 'hangs' a little to the right and when stroking forward it comes back in towards the body. Is this another thing to correct?
Click to expand...

Yes, this is a problem because regardless of whether or not you can shoot straight, it will hinder your ability to have a full stroke when you need it. It's also a sign that your alignment is off and that you are compensating. While you may still be able to play like this, you will not reach your full potential.
 
Roscue

Roscue

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I want to thank everybody here for the input. Now it's time to work on a proper stance and stroke! :grin:
 
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