Results of U.S. Nationals

Bravo to Pedro
And bravo to Mr Frank Torres can still place up there and ran a 9 as well

Pedro was unstoppable. There were a few attempts but toward the end he just plowed on points.

Guess who was the only top player practicing on Saturday Night??

I saw an excellently played match between Pedro and Mazin. Unfortunately Pedro's glittering play was marred, for me, by the glacial pace of play. A 3C match should not average a full minute per stroke IMO. If the USBA doesn't use time controls they should, and if they do they need better ones, imo, if they want people to watch.

Pedro was alot of fun to watch all week long.

Watching this tournament was the first time I had seen Frank Torres play. He has such a smooth stroke for a man his age.

Having an audience to cheer and ambient noise would make it better for viewers instead of dead noise and balls smacking

The tournament format was difficult to follow and new to me,

For viewers it would be nicer o have the standard format of once past a certain point you lose your done and the winner isn't determined until the final match

Those things would help it's entertainment value I feel, maybe it just me though

beneath_the_sur said:

Having an audience to cheer and ambient noise would make it better for viewers instead of dead noise and balls smacking

The tournament format was difficult to follow and new to me,

For viewers it would be nicer o have the standard format of once past a certain point you lose your done and the winner isn't determined until the final match

Those things would help it's entertainment value I feel, maybe it just me though

Click to expand...

Agreed on the format part. Pedro already had it wrapped up before the last day. Kind of takes the suspense out of it all.

beneath_the_sur said:

Having an audience to cheer and ambient noise would make it better for viewers instead of dead noise and balls smacking

The tournament format was difficult to follow and new to me,

For viewers it would be nicer o have the standard format of once past a certain point you lose your done and the winner isn't determined until the final match

Those things would help it's entertainment value I feel, maybe it just me though

Click to expand...

New software was used for this tournament and yes there were some unforeseen glitches. The software picks flights and listings within the flights completely randomly.

Don't forget if a tournament is run with humans sculpting the final match, it can give unfair advantage to the Director's wishes. The random pick takes that out of it.

That being said, the software allows for seeding and allows for manipulating when opponents will match up. Its been mentioned that the Hugo - Pedro match should have been held up toward the end even though Hugo looked to not be in contention for 1st or 2nd.

And finally, Pedro didn't clinch the title till Sunday afternoon. If Mazin would have beat Pedro then there would have been a playoff with Miguel Torres.

In hindsight, even if the tournament were run in the traditional way, there would not have been a grand finale match up since Pedro went undefeated and clinched with 1 game remaining to play.

None of that makes any sense to me ,

Especially the unfair part to the tournament directors wishes, I'll just stop trying to make sense out of all of it

Does open my eyes about a few things however

I would also like to have commentary by a bill Smith, a George Ashby, I understand this isnt really possible just throwing things out there
Any former champions or like high level player


On kozoom they don't have commentary, and I get it to many nation's tuning in

We don't have that big a issue here I'd think

3kushn said:

New software was used for this tournament and yes there were some unforeseen glitches. The software picks flights and listings within the flights completely randomly.

Don't forget if a tournament is run with humans sculpting the final match, it can give unfair advantage to the Director's wishes. The random pick takes that out of it.

That being said, the software allows for seeding and allows for manipulating when opponents will match up. Its been mentioned that the Hugo - Pedro match should have been held up toward the end even though Hugo looked to not be in contention for 1st or 2nd.

And finally, Pedro didn't clinch the title till Sunday afternoon. If Mazin would have beat Pedro then there would have been a playoff with Miguel Torres.

In hindsight, even if the tournament were run in the traditional way, there would not have been a grand finale match up since Pedro went undefeated and clinched with 1 game remaining to play.

Click to expand...

The tournament software can be overridden at any time, table assignments, matches, times and tables can all be overridden. Honestly, the whole event did not have to play out the way it did.

Nuff said..

beneath_the_sur said:

None of that makes any sense to me ,

I would also like to have commentary by a bill Smith, a George Ashby, I understand this isnt really possible just throwing things out there
Any former champions or like high level player


On kozoom they don't have commentary, and I get it to many nation's tuning in

We don't have that big a issue here I'd think

Click to expand...

Running a tournament in the traditional way, the best player plays the lesser players till the second seed comes up to bat. This gives the best player the best chance to warm up and gain confidence. The mental game is very important. The lesser players have less chance (not no chance but less) to gain confidence through winning in the early matches.

Not looking for fairness, just saying, and again since Pedro went undefeated and everyone else had at least 1 loss. A final match for the Championship couldn't happen.

As far as having an experienced Commentator? Great idea if there was money to support it and that experienced person, after traveling to Tucson didn't want to play. The two people mentioned would likely reach the finals if they played, given the rest of the field. Why wouldn't they play after traveling to Tucson?

Earlier you mentioned the lack of audience. Yes it would be nice if we needed bleacher but few other than players will go to watch. Can you offer a solution for that? We have a very nice 4Star venue with lots of things to see in and around Tucson other than 3Cushion. How about making it a vacation.

3kushn said:

As far as having an experienced Commentator? Great idea if there was money to support it and that experienced person, after traveling to Tucson didn't want to play. The two people mentioned would likely reach the finals if they played, given the rest of the field. Why wouldn't they play after traveling to Tucson?

Earlier you mentioned the lack of audience. Yes it would be nice if we needed bleacher but few other than players will go to watch. Can you offer a solution for that? We have a very nice 4Star venue with lots of things to see in and around Tucson other than 3Cushion. How about making it a vacation.

Click to expand...

Makes sense what you about bill and George, if travel we're able to be provided I'm sure both would probably attend, if this schedule or personal life allowed for it, as far as them playing or not, they could do commentary between matches if that's not too demanding, and no on every single match either

Perhaps Tucson is not the place then if it's an audience we seek, Houston has a large Vietnamese community of player's, the tournament would have to take place in close proximity to that area if you needed as nice a place as a casino however then this wouldn't be a very viable plan then

I thought it was held in Houston in 2014, I don't know how that went or turnout or if it was brought to the Houston billiards attention even , I'm certain a portion of the pool playing community would have taken an interest

Just things that come to mind,
Not everything is realistic however I realize

I agree that there's no better way to enjoy the game than with good commentary, whether it's 3 cushion or 1 pocket pool. I really do think thing that in the absence of lots of local tournamets, instructors, etc. then commentary during games that can explain and 'teach' people is going to be the sole savior of the carom games in the US.

I know I've come across matches on YouTube with Torbjorn offering commentary - - can anyone speak to how that's accomplished?

Does he just do it if he's knocked out of a tournament but hasn't left town yet, or is he waiting to play between games?

HomeBrewer said:

I agree that there's no better way to enjoy the game than with good commentary, whether it's 3 cushion or 1 pocket pool. I really do think thing that in the absence of lots of local tournamets, instructors, etc. then commentary during games that can explain and 'teach' people is going to be the sole savior of the carom games in the US.

I know I've come across matches on YouTube with Torbjorn offering commentary - - can anyone speak to how that's accomplished?

Does he just do it if he's knocked out of a tournament but hasn't left town yet, or is he waiting to play between games?

Click to expand...

I think yes, that is how blomdahl gets in the booth.

I also agree he is excellent, on the mic and on the table. Jasper's is also great to hear.

The USBA and Casino Del Sol agreed to a 3 year commitment. Certainly there's other areas of the country where you'll find greater numbers of 3C players.

Casino Del Sol is a great place with wonderful service in a fantastic location. Last January I took a 3 hour hike in the desert by just walking outside the casino and not stopping. Too hot in June for this for me but plenty of driving destinations for sight seeing. Hopefully we can renew the agreement.

The problem with going somewhere else for the Nationals is
1) The lack of rooms with 4-6 tables.
2) Although the USBA now owns 3 tables, moving them is expensive. $2K?? just to move them. Then add setup costs.

As always it's all about the $$. A large bank balance offers better flexibility.

Donations of time and or $ are always welcome.

3kushn said:

The USBA and Casino Del Sol agreed to a 3 year commitment. Certainly there's other areas of the country where you'll find greater numbers of 3C players.

Casino Del Sol is a great place with wonderful service in a fantastic location. Last January I took a 3 hour hike in the desert by just walking outside the casino and not stopping. Too hot in June for this for me but plenty of driving destinations for sight seeing. Hopefully we can renew the agreement.

The problem with going somewhere else for the Nationals is
1) The lack of rooms with 4-6 tables.
2) Although the USBA now owns 3 tables, moving them is expensive. $2K?? just to move them. Then add setup costs.

As always it's all about the $$. A large bank balance offers better flexibility.

Donations of time and or $ are always welcome.

Click to expand...

What about Carom Café ??

That's a great suggestion,
Also Houston has several rooms with more than 4 tables
Us bida has 10 verhoevens 10 or 8
And 2 small tables for libre player's

POVPOOL said:

The tournament software can be overridden at any time, table assignments, matches, times and tables can all be overridden. Honestly, the whole event did not have to play out the way it did.

Nuff said..

Click to expand...

Is the USBA wedded to the round robin finals notion? Rather than the more typical small group round robin feeding into a knockout stage for the final 8 or 16? In the Worlds, the 48 qualifiers are divided into 16 3-man groups who play each other. The winner of each group (with W/L ties broken by higher average) advances to a 16 man knockout stage.

The final match decided everything, and frequently is quite dramatic, like a couple of years ago, when Kang went out, with the white ball, against Blomdahl, Torbjorn ran 7 to equalize, and then won the shootout.

KissedOut said:

Is the USBA wedded to the round robin finals notion? Rather than the more typical small group round robin feeding into a knockout stage for the final 8 or 16? In the Worlds, the 48 qualifiers are divided into 16 3-man groups who play each other. The winner of each group (with W/L ties broken by higher average) advances to a 16 man knockout stage.

The final match decided everything, and frequently is quite dramatic, like a couple of years ago, when Kang went out, with the white ball, against Blomdahl, Torbjorn ran 7 to equalize, and then won the shootout.

Click to expand...

The Tournament Director has control for the most part on how the event will be run.
The main reason for a Round Robin format is to, at the very least give all players as many games as possible. Remember that some players simply want to play the the best in the country but to do so have to pay $500 plus expenses if they don't Qualify. Even if a player Qualifies there's Room & Board, plus travel expenses, not to mention burning vacation and or lost wages from the absence from work. Its costly no matter how you cut it to play any tournament particularly one that takes a week to complete.

The situation is not easily answered. Do we cater to the audience or the players? Do we cater to the Top Players or do we cater to the larger player market? What is the key to grow participation in the game? In other words how do we grow to the point we can satisfy everyone's needs. Players and Audience.

The ultimate goal (20year plan) is we have 50 players at 1.50 ave., Qualified to compete in the Nationals and 10,000+ USBA members.

At that point we don't need to worry about catering to <.750 players @ the Nationals, since there will be another league for them to compete and grow to 1.50.

How do we get there?

I'd rather concentrate on the larger market and try to grow that, than focus on 6 or 8 players eligible to win the Nationals.