Is there a common CTE focus point or final aiming point?

plfrg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I really was hesitant to bring this up and face the wrath of khan if this has already been clearly explained but I can't find it so can someone please point me to the thread that explains where I'm supposed to be looking at when I take the shot using CTE? I'm actually trying to experiment with it but having trouble knowing exactly where I'm supposed to be focused when I take the shot? My curiosity and need to explain systems to others I teach has pushed me to experiment with CTE.

I shoot quite well using an aimpoint method derived from ghost ball so I'm used to having a precise location to focus on when I take the shot (re-read sentance above if you're curious why I'm experimenting with CTE). Please spare me the comments about how 'precise' the spot is that I currently use - to be clear, it's exact. Whether or not it's exactly correct 100% of the time is a good question and because I don't make every ball I shoot at it's obvious that it's not always 'exactly correct' but it is exactly defined when I take the shot (and adjusted by feel for table conditions, CIT, etc).

This is why I'm struggling a little with CTE. After you pivot and settle into the shot, when you are ready to take the shot, are you looking at a line? The object ball? A point? An edge? Where exactly do you focus prior to executing the shot? What are you looking at?


Again, sorry if this is explained somewhere else... This thread isn't meant to stir sh*t, I'm sincerely playing around with CTE but don't get the last part of it due to my current aiming habits.
 

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
if you want it to work... the final aim point needs to be the center of the ghost ball ....:rolleyes:
 

plfrg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i just cant get myself to answer another cte question on this site lol

I can respect that but hope someone can provide a simple answer. I considered water boarding myself prior to sending this thread but could not find the answer, so...
 

randyg

www.randygpool.com
Silver Member
Maybe I can help.

Before Hal taught me CTE, I used the Fractional Aiming Method. In Pool School we refer to that as S.A.M. I would either aim at a #1-2-3-4.

With CTE, when I swing in to shoot, I will cross check my aim with S.A.M. Plenty simple.
randyg
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Three core focal points:

1) Primary and secondary visuals, which lead to:
2) the correct 180-deg view of the CB (never lose sight of) so you can
3) pivot to the "correct" center of the CB

The TARGET is actually the CB, assuming you do 1 and 2 correctly. Meaning, the correct center of the CB is your true target. Not saying you stare at the CB last -- just saying that's what determines if you make it or not.



Dave
 

plfrg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if you want it to work... the final aim point needs to be the center of the ghost ball ....:rolleyes:

That's funny. I think the answer was staring me in the face and I couldn't see it. Your answer, while I'm sure was in jest, is probably the answer I was looking for. All aiming methods provide a scheme to find a reference point. CTE is just another means of finding the reference point (I currently use an aimpoint as my reference), CTE differs a little in that it uses defined references to find the final reference. I think it is perfectly acceptable to use CTE to find an aimpoint, particularly if it helps someone to find it reliably and provide more confidence in their selection.

It's not the same but somewhat similar to land navigation and using intersect points to find your position. The more points you use the more exact your estimate of your position. It provides another check/reference to provide more confidence.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I really was hesitant to bring this up and face the wrath of khan if this has already been clearly explained but I can't find it so can someone please point me to the thread that explains where I'm supposed to be looking at when I take the shot using CTE? I'm actually trying to experiment with it but having trouble knowing exactly where I'm supposed to be focused when I take the shot? My curiosity and need to explain systems to others I teach has pushed me to experiment with CTE.

I shoot quite well using an aimpoint method derived from ghost ball so I'm used to having a precise location to focus on when I take the shot (re-read sentance above if you're curious why I'm experimenting with CTE). Please spare me the comments about how 'precise' the spot is that I currently use - to be clear, it's exact. Whether or not it's exactly correct 100% of the time is a good question and because I don't make every ball I shoot at it's obvious that it's not always 'exactly correct' but it is exactly defined when I take the shot (and adjusted by feel for table conditions, CIT, etc).

This is why I'm struggling a little with CTE. After you pivot and settle into the shot, when you are ready to take the shot, are you looking at a line? The object ball? A point? An edge? Where exactly do you focus prior to executing the shot? What are you looking at?


Again, sorry if this is explained somewhere else... This thread isn't meant to stir sh*t, I'm sincerely playing around with CTE but don't get the last part of it due to my current aiming habits.

After I am settled into the shot I am looking past the object ball to the rail and focusing on hitting the cue ball pure. Looking past the object ball helps me to hit the cue ball in a straight line. I am essentially following a line that runs through the cue ball to the rail. Since the object ball is in the way it goes in (most of the time).
 

scottjen26

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's actually a good question.

I think Spidey got it the most right, at least compared to how I do it as well. If I visualize and pivot correctly, I WILL be on the correct aim line, and I focus on making sure I find the cueball center properly and I'm hitting the cueball correctly.

I still look up at the object ball and can tell if I'm on the right line or not based on how thick I'm cutting the ball, but that's just a visual verification based on years of aiming another way. And more often than not if I think the visual picture looks wrong and I try to "tweak" my shot I miss it, so have learned the hard way to just trust the process and make the ball.

Scott
 

JoeyA

Efren's Mini-Tourn BACKER
Silver Member
I really was hesitant to bring this up and face the wrath of khan if this has already been clearly explained but I can't find it so can someone please point me to the thread that explains where I'm supposed to be looking at when I take the shot using CTE? I'm actually trying to experiment with it but having trouble knowing exactly where I'm supposed to be focused when I take the shot? My curiosity and need to explain systems to others I teach has pushed me to experiment with CTE.

I shoot quite well using an aimpoint method derived from ghost ball so I'm used to having a precise location to focus on when I take the shot (re-read sentance above if you're curious why I'm experimenting with CTE). Please spare me the comments about how 'precise' the spot is that I currently use - to be clear, it's exact. Whether or not it's exactly correct 100% of the time is a good question and because I don't make every ball I shoot at it's obvious that it's not always 'exactly correct' but it is exactly defined when I take the shot (and adjusted by feel for table conditions, CIT, etc).

This is why I'm struggling a little with CTE. After you pivot and settle into the shot, when you are ready to take the shot, are you looking at a line? The object ball? A point? An edge? Where exactly do you focus prior to executing the shot? What are you looking at?


Again, sorry if this is explained somewhere else... This thread isn't meant to stir sh*t, I'm sincerely playing around with CTE but don't get the last part of it due to my current aiming habits.

I look at the object ball last, just like I did prior to CTE/Pro1.

Some people are known to look at the cue ball last on some shots but I have had more success looking at the object ball last.

HOWEVER, I make great effort to make sure I am shooting through the center of the cue ball unless I am intentionally planning to do otherwise.
 

plfrg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
After I am settled into the shot I am looking past the object ball to the rail and focusing on hitting the cue ball pure. Looking past the object ball helps me to hit the cue ball in a straight line. I am essentially following a line that runs through the cue ball to the rail. Since the object ball is in the way it goes in (most of the time).

Seems like several people have mentioned using the rail as the final reference point. I use an aimpoint for the same reason, I stroke thru the cue ball to the aimpoint to elongate my stroke. Many shots only need center ball hits or very close to it so this works well. Having a defined aimpoint (whether it would be on a rail or the playing surface) aids in detecting stroke issues. I'm always stroking toward an exact point so I know when I stroke left or right. If I freeze at the end of my stroke it's very simple to see if my tip is pointing exactly at the aimpoint (on center ball hits). I can see it clearly in others using this as well so it makes it easier to correct alignment issues.

Do you always use the rail? Even on shots where the rail is distant to the object ball?

I've trained myself to pick an aimpoint at the base of where a ghost ball would be (I could never see a ghost ball myself and have only found it useful to simply explain the concept). I wanted a more defined point to focus on so I made some training aids to see the point clearly on all shots. I'm traveling now but when I get back I will try to see if I can use CTE to provide additional confidence in choosing the final reference point.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Seems like several people have mentioned using the rail as the final reference point. I use an aimpoint for the same reason, I stroke thru the cue ball to the aimpoint to elongate my stroke. Many shots only need center ball hits or very close to it so this works well. Having a defined aimpoint (whether it would be on a rail or the playing surface) aids in detecting stroke issues. I'm always stroking toward an exact point so I know when I stroke left or right. If I freeze at the end of my stroke it's very simple to see if my tip is pointing exactly at the aimpoint (on center ball hits). I can see it clearly in others using this as well so it makes it easier to correct alignment issues.

Do you always use the rail? Even on shots where the rail is distant to the object ball?

I've trained myself to pick an aimpoint at the base of where a ghost ball would be (I could never see a ghost ball myself and have only found it useful to simply explain the concept). I wanted a more defined point to focus on so I made some training aids to see the point clearly on all shots. I'm traveling now but when I get back I will try to see if I can use CTE to provide additional confidence in choosing the final reference point.

I do actually have a harder time going to the rail when the object ball is far away from the rail. But in that case I am able to focus decently on the object ball. I like the idea you have of using a definite aimpoint that is always near the ball.

You can PM me about it if you want to.
 

deanoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i don't understand a single idea here
aim at ghost ball
aim at cue ball pivot into
after 55 years of playing i have no idea what is being discussed
 

plfrg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe I can help.

Before Hal taught me CTE, I used the Fractional Aiming Method. In Pool School we refer to that as S.A.M. I would either aim at a #1-2-3-4.

With CTE, when I swing in to shoot, I will cross check my aim with S.A.M. Plenty simple.
randyg

I assume #1-2-3-4 are standard cuts? and you're focusing/validating using points/lines on the object ball or the edge of the object ball or cue ball?
 

plfrg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
i don't understand a single idea here
aim at ghost ball
aim at cue ball pivot into
after 55 years of playing i have no idea what is being discussed

Sorry for the confusion. I think it will be easier for me to just post a video to explain. I'm traveling now so when I get back I'll post a video to explain more fully (assuming you're not pulling my leg...).

The basic concept is that aiming methods are used to find a reference for you to aim at. You can call that reference point anything you like (ghost ball, aimpoint, edge of cue ball, edge of ferrule, progressively bracketing from thick to thin hits, etc). If it works for you, then use it. That reference is then refined and validated by feel/experience/table conditions/CIT/etc to a more exact point.

This final reference point can be obtained using any aiming method - for me the method is important (it must be repeatable under pressure) but the actual final reference you choose is even more important.

I choose a reference aimpoint on the surface of the table (at the base of the ghost ball) for several reasons:

1. It's consistent. I can use it for 100% of the shots I take so I'm always consistent. cut shots, banks, caroms, combinations, kick shots, etc. I use exactly the same aimpoint references on all shots so I'm not going back and forth between what I use as a reference point.

2. It's verifiable. I know when I'm shooting straight, left, or right based on where my cue tip rests at the end of my stroke and I can easily see it in others that I teach. This helps with dealing with alignment issues.

3. It assists with improving my stroke. Because many of my shots are center ball or near center I stroke the cue tip exactly toward the aimpoint - this enables me to stroke further, thru the cue ball, to the aimpoint and I'm not stroking toward a spot/reference left or right of the aimline - I'm stroking exactly down the aimline to the aimpoint on (damn near) every shot (some significant english shots excluded...).

4. It's precise. Using a larger reference makes it difficult to be precise. Many people seem to use a ghost ball and that's great for them but for me it's not precise enough. I would find it difficult to actually focus on an entire ball. I choose a point of about 1/8 inch in diameter located at the base of where a ghost ball would be - and I adjust by feel based on experience/table conditions/CIT/etc.

5. The base/center of the ghost ball is very close to a final aimpoint. I know if I start at a point where the base of the ghost ball rests that I'm in the ballpark and I can adjust from there. Finding that point is one reason I asked about the reference in this thread.

The thread started because I was not able to find an article that discussed what reference point CTE was ending up with. As I stated above it will be easier for me to post a video to explain so when I'm able... I will.

Regards. Jon
 

LAMas

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good thread.
Wouldn't double the distance aiming be easier than the 1/8 dia spot on the cloth?

About CTE and the many variations:
You know about the fractions on the OB - edge, 1/8, 1/4 (A), 1/2 (B) and 3/4 (C) - that s a good start.

Assume that you are aiming at the CTE line with you dominant right eye and stroking with your right arm, look at the edge of the CB, with your left eye and where it lines up with relation to the OB - this I believe is the secondary reference.

You can move your stance sideways until the edge of the CB is lined up with the fractions on the OB. The cut angles that you achieve for the fractions and points in between will vary from shooter to shooter especially if one doesn't have a dominant eye. move the ferrule say 1/2 tip to the corresponding side and pivot back to the center of the CB. You only have to look at the CB for the cut angles and their corresponding fractions have been predetermined and commited your memory.

:thumbup:
 
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