Poolology and the Spot Shot

Dan White · Jun 13, 2017

I think this one trick makes Poolology worth the $10, easy.

In perusing the internet on the topic of spot shots (in which the cue ball is in the kitchen and the ob is on the foot spot) I find a hodge podge of methods to make the spot shot easier. Most of them center around putting the cue ball in the correct spot for a half ball hit.

In one video a guy recommends to put the cue ball on the head string one diamond out from the side rail. He makes a few shots to demonstrate. This is a great example of how the brain corrects for error and fools us into thinking we are doing something we are not. This guy should be undercutting every shot but he isn't. He's subconsciously aiming thinner than 1/2 ball and doesn't know it.

In a couple other video and print sources I find the recommendation to line the cue ball up with the edge of the corner pocket. How big are your pockets? I've tried this and found it to be imprecise.

Another method recommends to put the cue ball one diamond out from the side rail minus something like 3 inches. This might be fine, but is a little imprecise as well.

A last video said that no objective way of finding the exact half ball hit position exists with fractional aimng. This is wrong.

With Brian's Poolology, the half ball hit is determined with precision by drawing a line between the center of the cue ball and the center of the object ball and into the foot rail. You have a specific rail position to align to, and from there you only need to hit a half ball. I find it much easier to aim through the ob to a rail position than I do to aim from the cue ball back and beneath where I am shooting, like aligning to a corner pocket. It's just easier to aim outwards and away.

One thing you may find is that your ability to actually hit the half ball is better for left cuts than it is for right, or vice versa. This provides another good use of Poolology. We know that if the ob is in dead center table and the cue ball is on the head spot, this is a half ball hit to the corner pockets. I highly recommend that you set this shot up and hit a just a few shots every couple of days. To my surprise, I found that my cuts to the right did not go in every day. I have a bias that creeps into my alignment that only seems to affect right cuts. I consider this just another tool to test out my stroke.

That about covers what I had to say. Happy shootin'!

(No, I'm not affiliated with Poolology!)

SpiderWebComm · Jun 13, 2017

Dan White said:
To my surprise, I found that my cuts to the right did not go in every day. I have a bias that creeps into my alignment that only seems to affect right cuts. I consider this just another tool to test out my stroke.

Why are you always wanting to test or work on your stroke? Maybe it has nothing to do with it but more so with head and eye alignment on right cuts.

When you do miss right cuts regardless of the angle, where is the primary miss, an overcut or an undercut?

Dan White · Jun 13, 2017

SpiderWebComm said:
Why are you always wanting to test or work on your stroke? Maybe it has nothing to do with it but more so with head and eye alignment on right cuts.

When you do miss right cuts regardless of the angle, where is the primary miss, an overcut or an undercut?

Undercut, but I understand the issue better. It's just a tendency I haven't worked out of my system yet.

Just FYI since you keep asking, when I say "stroke" as in "the stroke is more difficult to master than aiming", I am not referring literally to only the actual stroke of the cue. In that context, I'm saying that aiming is simple compared to doing everything else right (feet, body alignment, eyes, other body parts) to make the cue travel in a perfectly straight line.

That's the nice thing about Poolology for troubleshooting your game. It gives you an objective set up so that you KNOW what the proper contact point is. If you know you have a half ball hit and you miss it, you know that at least you didn't perceive the shot incorrectly.

SpiderWebComm · Jun 13, 2017

Dan White said:
Undercut, but I understand the issue better. It's just a tendency I haven't worked out of my system yet.
.

When you said you had a tendency to miss cuts to the right, I had a strong feeling it was an undercut. Why? Because you gave no indication of missing very many if any cuts to the left.

Are you willing to try an experiment? Set up to the ball as you always do with a variety of different angles with right hand cuts and take the shots.

At some point the miss will begin to occur. Just do one thing. Move your head, nose and right eye over more toward the cue even to the point where it's beyond the cue to the right or outside.

My guess is once you go too far, you'll start overcutting the shot. Work your way back to determine where you need to be for those problematic right cuts.

I have a tendency in the opposite direction with left cuts when I get lazy or careless.
I have to move more to the inside or I'll undercut the left cuts the more acute they get.

See what happens.

sixpack · Jun 13, 2017

SpiderWebComm said:
When you said you had a tendency to miss cuts to the right, I had a strong feeling it was an undercut. Why? Because you gave no indication of missing very many if any cuts to the left.

Are you willing to try an experiment? Set up to the ball as you always do with a variety of different angles with right hand cuts and take the shots.

At some point the miss will begin to occur. Just do one thing. Move your head, nose and right eye over more toward the cue even to the point where it's beyond the cue to the right or outside.

My guess is once you go too far, you'll start overcutting the shot. Work your way back to determine where you need to be for those problematic right cuts.

I have a tendency in the opposite direction with left cuts when I get lazy or careless.
I have to move more to the inside or I'll undercut the left cuts the more acute they get.

See what happens.

Interesting.

I recently realized that when I'm "in the zone" my eyes are not fixed in one spot over the cue. Instead my eye alignment changes, depending on the shot.

When I try to 'correct' this I start missing balls so I decided to just let myself do it and just put my eyes wherever they need to be to see the shot best.

sixpack · Jun 13, 2017

Dan White said:
I think this one trick makes Poolology worth the $10, easy.

In perusing the internet on the topic of spot shots (in which the cue ball is in the kitchen and the ob is on the foot spot) I find a hodge podge of methods to make the spot shot easier. Most of them center around putting the cue ball in the correct spot for a half ball hit.

In one video a guy recommends to put the cue ball on the head string one diamond out from the side rail. He makes a few shots to demonstrate. This is a great example of how the brain corrects for error and fools us into thinking we are doing something we are not. This guy should be undercutting every shot but he isn't. He's subconsciously aiming thinner than 1/2 ball and doesn't know it.

In a couple other video and print sources I find the recommendation to line the cue ball up with the edge of the corner pocket. How big are your pockets? I've tried this and found it to be imprecise.

Another method recommends to put the cue ball one diamond out from the side rail minus something like 3 inches. This might be fine, but is a little imprecise as well.

A last video said that no objective way of finding the exact half ball hit position exists with fractional aimng. This is wrong.

With Brian's Poolology, the half ball hit is determined with precision by drawing a line between the center of the cue ball and the center of the object ball and into the foot rail. You have a specific rail position to align to, and from there you only need to hit a half ball. I find it much easier to aim through the ob to a rail position than I do to aim from the cue ball back and beneath where I am shooting, like aligning to a corner pocket. It's just easier to aim outwards and away.

One thing you may find is that your ability to actually hit the half ball is better for left cuts than it is for right, or vice versa. This provides another good use of Poolology. We know that if the ob is in dead center table and the cue ball is on the head spot, this is a half ball hit to the corner pockets. I highly recommend that you set this shot up and hit a just a few shots every couple of days. To my surprise, I found that my cuts to the right did not go in every day. I have a bias that creeps into my alignment that only seems to affect right cuts. I consider this just another tool to test out my stroke.

That about covers what I had to say. Happy shootin'!

(No, I'm not affiliated with Poolology!)

I agree with this. However don't you have to adjust when the OB is on the spot. Hit it a hair thicker? I only had limited time on the table to work with it so I didn't spend much time on spot shots.

Also, I've found that with any ball in hand it's extremely useful to be able to set up exactly for a half ball or 1/4 ball hit. That also helps you control your position angles and speed more consistently.

fathomblue · Jun 13, 2017

I just did a really good vision-center alignment test a couple of weeks ago in an attempt to correct this.

It's easy. Doesn't take too long, even if you do the 7 checkpoints I used at 5 shots each.

I think it's imperative to use a trusted friend as a spotter, however, to ensure you get each portion of your eyes under each set of shots for maximum test accuracy.

It confirmed that I'm SEVERELY right-eye dominant, which resulted in chronically over-cutting virtually any RH shot that wasn't a hanger.

Turns out I've been about 2 "clicks" off to the inside of my right eye. My vision-center is as laser straight as I think it can be if I line up with the cue under the far outside edge of my right eye. It just doesn't look correct or natural.

I think it will look a bit more correct once I burn it in. I notice that my eye alignment drifts after a while and my accuracy drops off simply because I don't have it burned into my setup yet.

Dan White · Jun 13, 2017

sixpack said:
I agree with this. However don't you have to adjust when the OB is on the spot. Hit it a hair thicker? I only had limited time on the table to work with it so I didn't spend much time on spot shots.

Also, I've found that with any ball in hand it's extremely useful to be able to set up exactly for a half ball or 1/4 ball hit. That also helps you control your position angles and speed more consistently.

Brian mentions the correct alignment number to use when the ob is on the foot spot. This is the area where the system doesn't work, but that is corrected by just using the alternate number.

I forgot to mention what you said. This is good for any shots with ball in hand, not just spot shots.

Dan White · Jun 13, 2017

SpiderWebComm said:
At some point the miss will begin to occur. Just do one thing. Move your head, nose and right eye over more toward the cue even to the point where it's beyond the cue to the right or outside.

That kind of won't work because I'm left-handed. I know what you are getting at though... not my first rodeo and all that.

Bobkitty · Jun 13, 2017

sixpack said:
I agree with this. However don't you have to adjust when the OB is on the spot. Hit it a hair thicker? I only had limited time on the table to work with it so I didn't spend much time on spot shots.

Also, I've found that with any ball in hand it's extremely useful to be able to set up exactly for a half ball or 1/4 ball hit. That also helps you control your position angles and speed more consistently.

If you are writing you question about the book "Poolology", Brian states that the spot on the head and foot rail occupy the one area where an adjustment is needed. The ball is sitting on the 20 line in Zone B, but Brian states that area needs a slight modification. This is accurate for an area about the size of a baseball*. Brian may chime in here but that is my understanding.

sixpack · Jun 13, 2017

denwhit said:
.....

That was my understanding too. I just wanted to clarify.

AtLarge · Jun 13, 2017

Dan White said:
I think this one trick makes Poolology worth the $10, easy.

In perusing the internet on the topic of spot shots (in which the cue ball is in the kitchen and the ob is on the foot spot) I find a hodge podge of methods to make the spot shot easier. Most of them center around putting the cue ball in the correct spot for a half ball hit.

In one video a guy recommends to put the cue ball on the head string one diamond out from the side rail. He makes a few shots to demonstrate. This is a great example of how the brain corrects for error and fools us into thinking we are doing something we are not. This guy should be undercutting every shot but he isn't. He's subconsciously aiming thinner than 1/2 ball and doesn't know it.

In a couple other video and print sources I find the recommendation to line the cue ball up with the edge of the corner pocket. How big are your pockets? I've tried this and found it to be imprecise.

Another method recommends to put the cue ball one diamond out from the side rail minus something like 3 inches. This might be fine, but is a little imprecise as well.

A last video said that no objective way of finding the exact half ball hit position exists with fractional aimng. This is wrong.

With Brian's Poolology, the half ball hit is determined with precision by drawing a line between the center of the cue ball and the center of the object ball and into the foot rail. You have a specific rail position to align to, and from there you only need to hit a half ball. I find it much easier to aim through the ob to a rail position than I do to aim from the cue ball back and beneath where I am shooting, like aligning to a corner pocket. It's just easier to aim outwards and away.

One thing you may find is that your ability to actually hit the half ball is better for left cuts than it is for right, or vice versa. This provides another good use of Poolology. We know that if the ob is in dead center table and the cue ball is on the head spot, this is a half ball hit to the corner pockets. I highly recommend that you set this shot up and hit a just a few shots every couple of days. To my surprise, I found that my cuts to the right did not go in every day. I have a bias that creeps into my alignment that only seems to affect right cuts. I consider this just another tool to test out my stroke.

That about covers what I had to say. Happy shootin'!

(No, I'm not affiliated with Poolology!)

Comments regarding spot shots to center pocket with the CB "on" (slightly behind to be legal) the head string:

• The geometric cut angle needed with the CB one diamond in from the side rail (i.e., the base of the CB 12.5" off the side rail), is 32.3°. To allow for cut-induced throw, the shot must be hit a bit thinner than that.

• The distance off the side rail (base of ball) for a half-ball aim, without allowance for CIT, is about 10.4".

• The distances that will allow for CIT are 9.5" for 1° of throw, 8.6" for 2° of throw, 7.7" for 3° of throw, and 6.7" for 4° of throw.

• The Poolology-based placement of the CB for this shot (using a half-ball aim and taking account of the adjustment when the OB is on the head spot or foot spot) looks to be about 7½" off the side rail, give or take a little. So I agree that it is a good location for the CB for shooting spot shots with a half-ball aim.

LAMas · Jun 13, 2017

The distances that will allow for CIT are 9.5" for 1° of throw, 8.6" for 2° of throw, 7.7" for 3° of throw, and 6.7" for 4° of throw.

I don't get it. Is there a diagram/s?

Dan White · Jun 13, 2017

LAMas said:
The distances that will allow for CIT are 9.5" for 1° of throw, 8.6" for 2° of throw, 7.7" for 3° of throw, and 6.7" for 4° of throw.

I don't get it. Is there a diagram/s?

He's talking about the distance from the side rail at the head string (second diamond) to the cue ball placement on the head string. He is saying that if you wanted to pocket a ball with a half ball hit that takes into account close to 3 degrees of throw, the cb would have to be about 7.7 inches from the side rail. This coincides with the Poolology recommended placement, so he is confirming that Poolology works.

AtLarge · Jun 13, 2017

Dan White said:
He's talking about the distance from the side rail at the head string (second diamond) to the cue ball placement on the head string. He is saying that if you wanted to pocket a ball with a half ball hit that takes into account close to 3 degrees of throw, the cb would have to be about 7.7 inches from the side rail. This coincides with the Poolology recommended placement, so he is confirming that Poolology works.

Correct. Without throw, the half-ball hit would produce a 30° cut. If the throw is 3°, the cut is reduced to 27°. So I determined the point on the head string where 27° is the cut needed to center pocket. The answer is 7.7" from the side cushion.

LAMas · Jun 13, 2017

AtLarge said:
Correct. Without throw, the half-ball hit would produce a 30° cut. If the throw is 3°, the cut is reduced to 27°. So I determined the point on the head string where 27° is the cut needed to center pocket. The answer is 7.7" from the side cushion.

Thank you both.

I shoot spot shots with the CB edge about an inch from the near side rail and make them consistently.
I thought that was 30 degrees until I protracted it on CAD. I guess that was due to hitting the CB with top bridging from the rail.

30 degrees would have the butt of the cue around the corner pocket.

Does the object Ball move forward at collision before it starts to roll at 26 degrees or does it roll at 30 degrees?

AtLarge · Jun 13, 2017

LAMas said:
Thank you both.

I shoot spot shots with the CB edge about an inch from the near side rail and make them consistently.
I thought that was 30 degrees until I protracted it on CAD. I guess that was due to hitting the CB with top bridging from the rail.

30 degrees would have the butt of the cue around the corner pocket.

Does the object Ball move forward at collision before it starts to roll at 26 degrees or does it roll at 30 degrees?

With the edge of the CB 1" off the cushion (base of CB 2.125" off the cushion), the cut angle actually needed to center pocket for the spot shot is 21.3°. So if you accurately hit a half-ball shot and achieve something like a 27° cut (after 3° of throw), I think you would miss with reasonably sized pockets. So maybe you're doing something that results in a little thicker hit than you thought (or you're getting a lot of throw or playing with large pockets).

I don't know about the physics at the point of collision; I'm just working with the net effect on the cut angle.

SpiderWebComm · Jun 14, 2017

Dan White said:
That kind of won't work because I'm left-handed.

Herein lies the problem. Switch to righty. :grin::grin:

I know what you are getting at though... not my first rodeo and all that.

I was convinced a long time ago that you'd been through many rodeos with a few times getting run over by a bull and kicked by a bucking bronc in the old bean.

SpiderWebComm · Jun 14, 2017

Dan White said:
Just FYI since you keep asking, when I say "stroke" as in "the stroke is more difficult to master than aiming".
I am not referring literally to only the actual stroke of the cue.

This is kind of like "what came first, the chicken or the egg?

I'd have to say there are far more aiming systems developed and invented since pool came into being than strokes. Why? Because aiming IS very difficult to master.

Not only that but our eyes and brain don't always coordinate perfectly from one day to the next and we lose the ability to focus sharply enough to see what we were seeing the day before when a ball couldn't be missed even if we tried missing.

In that context, I'm saying that aiming is simple compared to doing everything else right (feet, body alignment, eyes, other body parts) to make the cue travel in a perfectly straight line.

Doing everything else right is called the "fundamentals" which has to do with the grip, bridge, stance (feet position) body alignment, and other body parts which has as much to do with the AIMING part as it does the stroke.

The stroke is the stroke, a very simple motion that moves the tip of the cue back from the CB about 3" - 5" and forward to the moment of impact. How far it extends beyond where the CB was is immaterial once the ball is already on it's way.

Could the reason for all the difficulty in learning fundamentals be because of the way most or all of us learn how to play the game which is "self taught".

And once all of those fundamentals are ingrained somewhat incorrectly they're tough to break. Who do you know that's ever wanted to learn how to play pool go straight to a teaching pro right from the start to learn fundamentals? I don't know of ONE.
But they do it in golf, pistol or rifle shooting, and tennis.

Btw, the stance and perfect setup in pool doesn't always present itself because our bodies, head and eyes are draped over the table in some cockeyed contorted fashion just to be able to reach the CB or have other OB balls preventing it.

Fundamentals are out the window and it comes down to only aiming and the stroke.

If there's one fundamental that can be isolated for variation after variation it's the GRIP and grip pressure. To me it has a major impact on the consistency and accuracy of the stroke as well as whether any aiming system is going to work or not.

A player can have the perfect stance, super alignment, great aiming skills, look like a pro with a stroke to die for - but when the pressure is on for a "must make" and everything is on the line, if in the transition from backstroke to forward stroke within a couple of milliseconds before the tip contacts the CB there's a change in grip pressure, a flinch, or manipulation of the fingers, hand, or wrist from nerves...it's lights out and hand over the money!

Low500 · Jun 14, 2017

SpiderWebComm said:
Doing everything else right is called the "fundamentals" which has to do with the grip, bridge, stance (feet position) body alignment, and other body parts which has as much to do with the AIMING part as it does the stroke.
If there's one fundamental that can be isolated for variation after variation it's the GRIP and grip pressure. To me it has a major impact on the consistency and accuracy of the stroke as well as whether any aiming system is going to work or not.

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Poolology and the Spot Shot

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