Measles cueball vs Red Circle cueball weight differences

cubc said:

It appears to me after playing this weekend with the aramith measles cueball for a good 20+ hours and then going to the red circle (NOT barbox) cue ball that the red circle was much heavier and thus had better top english / centerball but took much more effort to draw as opposed to the measles ball which was the opposite. Follow and centerball on the measles took a bit more spin and draw was easier.

Can someone that has 2 of those balls weigh both and post the outcome please?

Thanks

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Unless you own both cueballs, it's impossible to compare one to the other. Cueballs get worn over time and will lose a noticeable amount of mass. The red-circle and tv cueballs are both part of the Super Aramith sets so they SHOULD be identical but that may not necessarily be so for a specific circumstance, especially in a poolroom.

I think you have them mixed up.
Measles is easier on the follow and harder on the draw.
Red circle is slightly opaque in color. Sometimes smaller than Centennial or Aramith pro balls. Easy to draw and harder to follow.

draw and follow

How can the cue balls have different draw and follow characteristics?I though the balls were the same.

JoeyInCali said:

I think you have them mixed up.
Measles is easier on the follow and harder on the draw.
Red circle is slightly opaque in color. Sometimes smaller than Centennial or Aramith pro balls. Easy to draw and harder to follow.

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my experience agrees with joey.

wear could be a factor though, as all the measles balls i have used are nearly new.

-s

Cue balls

Red circle is slightly smaller than other cue balls, and is 2-3 grams lighter.

Measles is a little sluggish, and weighs like 1 gram more than the Aramith
Logo cue ball.

To me, IMHO, the Aramith Logo cue ball plays 'normal', on a bar box anyway.

Here are the industry standards for balls:

According to BCA/WPA equipment specifications, the weight may be from 5.5 to 6 oz. (156 to 170 g) with a diameter of 2.25 in. (5.715 cm), plus or minus 0.005 in. (0.127 mm).[1][2].

28 grams = 1 ounce.

LILJOHN30 said:

How can the cue balls have different draw and follow characteristics?I though the balls were the same.

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This is where the weight of the ball comes in. I think the measel ball is a little heavier than the red circle. I think the measel ball and the blue circle balls are about the same weight. JMO.

Southpaw

JoeyInCali said:

I think you have them mixed up.
Measles is easier on the follow and harder on the draw.
Red circle is slightly opaque in color. Sometimes smaller than Centennial or Aramith pro balls. Easy to draw and harder to follow.

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Chris is confused...Joey is correct. The measle ball is the same size & weight as the Aramith balls...making it easier to follow but harder to draw. The red circle is slight smaller & lighter making it easier to draw, harder to follow. Line all the balls up on a table and put a yardstick on top of them. The red circle will roll under while the others stay in contact. No scale needed....but will verify this as well if all new balls are used.

Bob Jewett said:

I think Aramith's intent is to make cue balls that are the same weight as the object balls. If there is a difference between new balls, I'm sure it is much smaller than the weight differences you see among worn balls. An article about the differences between small and large cue balls, including how draw and follow will be affected is at: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/2005-12.pdf

Unless you replace your cue ball frequently and keep the table very clean, the cue ball will not remain in spec. I have ball gauges (round holes in steel) that can check according to the BCA/WPA requirement of +-0.005 inches, and pretty much no pool balls in pool halls are legal. That's one reason it's hard to get a tight rack. It's common to see balls that are small by 1-2 mm.

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This is 100% accurate. In fact, the largest ball commonly seen in a ballset would be the 8-ball since it's commonly stolen and replaced. If you're having problems racking, you might want to try moving the 8ball to the bottom of the rack.

LILJOHN30 said:

How can the cue balls have different draw and follow characteristics?I though the balls were the same.

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The balls are definately not the same. But the draw and follow characteristics of a single ball are the same. If follow seems harder than draw with a given ball, the player just sucks at following....

I get a lot more action from a red circle, but it's in rotation at the hall. The pro cup is kept under the counter for the regulars, so they're probably closer to spec.

cubc said:

It appears to me after playing this weekend with the aramith measles cueball for a good 20+ hours and then going to the red circle (NOT barbox) cue ball that the red circle was much heavier and thus had better top english / centerball but took much more effort to draw as opposed to the measles ball which was the opposite. Follow and centerball on the measles took a bit more spin and draw was easier.

Can someone that has 2 of those balls weigh both and post the outcome please?

Thanks

Click to expand...

The Aramith Pro Cup (measels ball) is supposed to weigh the same as the Aramith Super Pro cueball (red A logo) and the Brunswick Centennial cueball. On my set, all three weigh in at 5.9 ounces on my scale. I play with all three balls interchangeably with no difference in cueball action.

However, in pool rooms on an old set of balls, or a mismatched set, you can have cueballs balls that weigh as little as 5.6 ounces - so if you get used to that, it will seem as if the Pro Cup rolls too far and draws too little.

If I go to a pool room where the old red or blue dot cueball is worn out and mismatched to the set, or the Pro Cup ball is new and mis matched with a lighter set of balls, it takes a while for me to adjust because the speed, spin, everything is out of whack.

Remember, everything is relative. The balls should all be the same size and weight within reason or there will be unwelcome variation. There is nothing more wonderful than playing with a new set of premium balls on a well maintained and properly set up table.

Chris

cubc said:

well it required less effort to draw the measles cue ball than it did to draw the red circle. And the red circle seemed to take off more on normal shots. Nice someone says i suck at following.

Has nothing to do with being confused either. It has to do what I witnessed this weekend and last night. I know what I saw and experienced and I have very good control. Apparently I shouldnt have brought it up here.

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Maybe one of them was dirtier.

I'm probably going to get chewed out for this, but here goes. Density x mass = weight. In the Diamond tables, the cue balls are separated by density. The red or blue circle cue balls separate the best, because they have the highest density readings, meaning the hardest cue balls. The measle cue ball won't separate very well because it's not as hard as the red/blue circle cue balls. Now, what does that mean? Well, it means that the red/blue circle cue balls have a harder mass than the measle cue ball, and therefor have a slightly higher weight for the same mass, but not really noticeable, but, the higher density cue balls because of their density require a little more force to draw back that same mass, while follow english is more effected. Density is why the Diamond tables can not separate the Arimuth Premier or Premium object balls, because they have almost the same density as the red/blue circle cue balls, while the Super Arimuth Pro sets of balls, as well as the Arimuth standard balls will work just fine.

So, to sum this all up, the measle cue balls, which was designed to show the viewing audience the spin of the cue ball, has a softer/less dense substance than the red/blue circle cue balls, therefor easier to draw, harder to follow, break out racks. While the red/blue circle cue balls, with a higher density, draw a little harder, yet follow easier with less effort, break racks and clusters easier.

Just my understanding of the density of object balls. One other thing, the one balls in most all sets of balls, have a higher density reading than the rest of the object balls in the set, as the one ball is more designed to take the impact of the break more than any other ball.

Try this for a test. Rack the balls with the one ball up front, break the balls as you normally would. Notice how they break apart/8 ball. Then re-rack the balls using any other ball for the point ball, break them again, do this several times, and you'll see that the balls break better using the one ball up front as opposed to any other balls. It's because the one balls density that it don't absorb the hit of the cue ball, therefor transferring more of the energy of the break to the rest of the object balls, giving you a better spread of the break.

Glen

Cue Balls

The red circle cue ball weighs 162 grams, Aramith logo 166 grams, and the measle ball 167 grams.

I will go back and review other posts in a minute. Here are my independent findings.

Aramith Measeles ball with about 50 hrs use aprox = 5.9 oz.

Super Araamith ball with about 200+ hrs use approx = 5.75 oz. (This is the ball that came with the set of New Super Aramith). All of the balls still look brand new.

There is a real difference in the location of the needle on my scale. The values given are my best guess. Each ball was weighed twice alternating balls so the differences are real as they show up everytime to the same extent.

There is a definite difference and my frinds and I have noed that the Measels ball is not quite as "fast." We noticed this from the time the measels ball was purchased. Hope that helps.

For what it is worth
IPT cue ball = 5.4 oz (brand new less than 10 hours of use)
Centenial Blue dot cue ball from original set that is 15 years old with 1,000 + hours of play = 5.5 oz

realkingcobra said:

...Density x mass = weight...
Glen

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Density units are mass/volume (as in g/L)
Mass is constant (we'll use grams in this example)
Weight varies with the effect of gravity, and should not be involved in this discussion. Generally treated the same as mass on this planet.

so density x mass is useless (g*g/L).
density/mass yields volume, a function of diameter (4/3 pi * r^3).

relevant? i dunno...

-s

p.s. I thought Diamonds used an optical sensor?