CTE Question for Sacman

Dan White said:

Here's a quiz to help us determine your suitability to really learn CTE Pro1. I do not intend this to be a joke or disrespectful of anybody. I would have pm'ed you but you don't have enough posts to allow pm, I guess.

So look at the diagram below, if you'll play along. The objective is to pocket the blue and red ball in the upper right corner pocket. I've deleted the pocket from view because, as CTE teaches, you no longer need to know where the pockets are. You have enough information from the portion of the table you can see to know that you will be using a CTE/ETA perception with an inside pivot for pocketing the blue ball with the upper cue ball, and also the red ball with the lower cue ball.

First, line up the blue ball to the upper cue ball with the ETA perception. We know the ball will go into the corner pocket. In fact CTE amazingly provides a slight overcut so that the ball will be pocketed in the center of the pocket, no matter what angle you are approaching the pocket from.

But now, while you have your ETA perception and are down on the shot, stop for a moment and look at the other cue ball and the red ball. Stand back up and do the exact same thing to find ETA and CTE for the red ball. Here's the question: If the blue ball is going to split the pocket, where will the red ball go, AND WHY?

I think the answer you give will help decide whether going down the CTE path is a good prospect for you. Whaddya say?

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Can you demonstrate (on video) that which you requesting someone to do?

Dan White said:

Here's a quiz to help us determine your suitability to really learn CTE Pro1. I do not intend this to be a joke or disrespectful of anybody. I would have pm'ed you but you don't have enough posts to allow pm, I guess.

So look at the diagram below, if you'll play along. The objective is to pocket the blue and red ball in the upper right corner pocket. I've deleted the pocket from view because, as CTE teaches, you no longer need to know where the pockets are. You have enough information from the portion of the table you can see to know that you will be using a CTE/ETA perception with an inside pivot for pocketing the blue ball with the upper cue ball, and also the red ball with the lower cue ball.

First, line up the blue ball to the upper cue ball with the ETA perception. We know the ball will go into the corner pocket. In fact CTE amazingly provides a slight overcut so that the ball will be pocketed in the center of the pocket, no matter what angle you are approaching the pocket from.

But now, while you have your ETA perception and are down on the shot, stop for a moment and look at the other cue ball and the red ball. Stand back up and do the exact same thing to find ETA and CTE for the red ball. Here's the question: If the blue ball is going to split the pocket, where will the red ball go, AND WHY?

I think the answer you give will help decide whether going down the CTE path is a good prospect for you. Whaddya say?

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Dan, you never seem to learn for whatever reason. Notice the part of your post I put in red. You have been told numerous times what will happen if you do that, and, if you are properly using CTE, you do not do EXACTLY the same thing on each shot. Yet, here you are again saying the same old story.

It's hard to say both of these shots are 15I from a picture. And they don't align to anything, so how would you accurately set them up? I'd recommend using Stevie's two 30I shots, one bank and one cut, for this test. Especially if just learning. The 30s are easier to see than 15s.

Dan White said:

@Sacman: Please don't be confused by the chaff. These are essentially the first two of five "15I" shots that Stan demonstrates on Youtube. You can be 100% sure these are ETA shots.



Just apply what you have learned about CTE to this situation using your own thoughts as you understand the system.

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The chaff *rolleyes*. You made me laugh at least.

Dan White said:

Here's a quiz to help us determine your suitability to really learn CTE Pro1. I do not intend this to be a joke or disrespectful of anybody. I would have pm'ed you but you don't have enough posts to allow pm, I guess.

So look at the diagram below, if you'll play along. The objective is to pocket the blue and red ball in the upper right corner pocket. I've deleted the pocket from view because, as CTE teaches, you no longer need to know where the pockets are. You have enough information from the portion of the table you can see to know that you will be using a CTE/ETA perception with an inside pivot for pocketing the blue ball with the upper cue ball, and also the red ball with the lower cue ball.

First, line up the blue ball to the upper cue ball with the ETA perception. We know the ball will go into the corner pocket. In fact CTE amazingly provides a slight overcut so that the ball will be pocketed in the center of the pocket, no matter what angle you are approaching the pocket from.

But now, while you have your ETA perception and are down on the shot, stop for a moment and look at the other cue ball and the red ball. Stand back up and do the exact same thing to find ETA and CTE for the red ball. Here's the question: If the blue ball is going to split the pocket, where will the red ball go, AND WHY?

I think the answer you give will help decide whether going down the CTE path is a good prospect for you. Whaddya say?

Click to expand...

A 15 degree perception that pockets blue ball will bank the red ball.

(Also your instructions are quite clear and the terminology is spot on I'm impressed.)

Dan White said:

Gotta call it like I see it. You guys almost seem afraid to see his answer, but alas his non-answer is the answer. I just hope he doesn't blame himself if he is still trying to make CTE work 10 years from now like some people we know.

Finding the answer to everything without really having to work for it is a powerful motivator (and well known sales technique). Don't put that ring on your finger, Bilbo Baggins, or you may be lost forever!

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All I'm saying is, show a diagram with diamond marks, and put the balls discreetly on the table in some sort of an alignment/offset from them. That way anyone can setup the shots with accuracy. Moving the balls even millimeters can make a difference in shot selection, especially if they are close to the edge of a perception. You said to make the shots in the upper right corner pocket. That is somewhat ambiguous, you should draw arrows. To me that indicates a right cut from the shooters perspective. However you do say CTEL/A 15I, which I would indicate a left cut. The red ball in your photo might be a 30I, as the CB is sitting higher than the OB a smidge, and that's about all it takes.

Also what I'm getting at, the stevie moore setup uses 30I with shorter shots, and regarding your purpose (why the same perception/pivot results in differing angles) is extremely clear compared to these longer and more similar shots. IMHO the short 30I's are a better test for the untrained eye.

I think you also just described much of what you do yourself: try to find the answer to everything without working for it.

mohrt said:

I think you also just described much of what you do yourself: try to find the answer to everything without working for it.

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You nailed it mohrt. Other threads I've read surrounding the subject of CTE indicate the same. This guy is nothing but a forum nuisance and wasting my time.

As I've said before. I belong to many forums relevant to my many interests. I've never encountered the side-show as I have at this forum. My intent is to gain knowledge from the many experienced members of this forum and to offer information and interesting stories from my side.

Dan White said:

Hi guys, I'm back. 12 years on this forum and never been banned until the subject of CTE came up. I actually haven't engaged in any CTE conversations for a good 6 months or so since they really weren't productive. What brought me back was interest in sacman's development with CTE. Sacman, I understand you are new here and don't know who the regulars are, but despite what you may have concluded, I am not a troll. Look at my posting history for the last decade (often in the 14.1 forum) and you'll see. Actually, the straight pool forum is probably the most no-nonsense place on AZ. People only talk about straight pool there.

The point is, there are some mysterious things about CTE that some of us get and others don't. As someone new to CTE, I wanted to see if you "got it" and then might actually be able to put into words what made it click for you. Stan will gladly admit that he's still working on figuring out how to explain it, hence his soon to be published, 38 chapter book.

Anyway, I recognize that CTE is too hot a potato so I'm just going to drop it. Good luck on your journey of enlightenment!

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BAITING ME?

You know damn well I won't admit that I am still working to explain CTE. I can explain every last necessary detail of CTE and have claimed that on this very forum for quite sometime. I am surprised that you are back at it with your very first post! If I could NOT explain CTE there would be no book and no online video framework. Does that compute with you? I hope you get permanently banned over your blantantly obvious bait for drawing me in. Once again you have proven yourself to be a liar.


Stan Shuffett

Dan White said:

OK, simmer down, Stan. I was trying to tell sacman that this is a difficult subject and that if he learned CTE properly his explanations would be welcome. I specifically used the words "working on figuring out how to explain it" and not "how it works." Maybe I didn't word it the best way. Here's what I'm saying: You said that over the years you have learned more and more about CTE and what is really going on. You said about the 5 shot perception video that there were some problems with how you presented the information, although the concept was accurate (I'm sure I could find the exact post if it is really necessary). You also said you now understand completely how CTE works and are working on a long book that goes into great detail to explain it. So it isn't a matter of lying about anything. I'm simply trying to explain to sacman that even the "inventor" of the Pro1 method has had difficulty in explaining everything. Apparently you have resolved those difficulties, but of course you can appreciate that we cannot know that because you book hasn't come out yet.

I know you don't believe this, but if CTE works, and your book completely explains how, then I would be very happy for you and would be your best salesman.

I'm done with the topic, you can have the last word.

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There's nothing that needs simmering on my end.

Putting CTE together has been an extreme challenge because Hal did not divulge the details but instead left a puzzle......a puzzle about as difficult to solve as winning our national lottery.

If I bought a safe with a combination series snd it worked day in and day out, I'd be happy. I'd never have a need to get a locksmith to explain its inner workings.

CTE is much the same. You have two spheres with 360 ticks each at their equiators. Real CTE represents some turns between the 2 balls that lead to tick to tick overcut relationships that pockets balls on the right angles of a 2x1 table. I found out how to work the various system combinations and I am telling everyone for nothing. if I were all about selling I would not share that with whole world for zip.

Stan Shuffett

Dan White said:

I know you don't believe this, but if CTE works, and your book completely explains how, then I would be very happy for you and would be your best salesman.

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Have you ever picked a cue and tried to pocket a ball using CTE?

mista335 said:

Have you ever picked a cue and tried to pocket a ball using CTE?

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I know this question is for Dan, but I believe he's said all he intends on saying. I, however, can provide my experience. Many years ago CTE became the talk in our local poolhall. Many players began experimenting with it and a couple of my friends purchased DVDs. They were already good players, one probably around 40 years old at the time, the other in his sixties. The younger of the two picked up on it quickly, doing the manual pivot and firing balls into or very close to the pockets from all over the table.

He was excited to show me how it works. Granted, this was before "sweeps" replaced the manual pivots. Every shot he played, regardless of the distance between the OB and the pocket, either hit the hole or rattled it. But he kept the CB​ 2ft or less from the OB on every shot. He said it didn't work as well with a greater distance between the balls, and asked if I could help him figure out what he's doing wrong on the longer distance shots. So I shot a bunch of balls up close, as he showed me what to do, lining up CB edge to OB A or B or C, then pivoting to CB center. I wasn't as proficient as he was, but I understood the concept of it and explained to him what I thought was happening. I drew it out on a napkin to show how these two lines (the line from CB center to A, and the actual shot line to the ghostball) intersect behind the CB where the pivot point needs to be. Then he was able to see that his bridge hand needed to be further from the CB as the distance between the balls increased. I also told him to study that DVD again because it probably shows how to compensate for distance.

Granted, this is when the system first came out and I'm sure many of the bugs have been fixed. The system may work completely different than how my buddy showed me, but nevertheless I found it to be very dependent on personal judgement and perception. Even after watching several of Stan's YouTube clips I cannot get passed the non-objective adjustments that need to occur in order to make the system work from varying distances and angles.

Since I didn't need a system, I dropped it. Eventually the older player asked if I could help him understand some shots that he keeps missing with CTE. I said no, telling him I don't quite get it. Overall, he likes using CTE and still uses it today, the older version. I see him doing his odd pivot on every shot, making some and missing some, still. But playing well considering he's in his early 70's!

BC21 said:

I know this question is for Dan, but I believe he's said all he intends on saying.

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I believe what people do rather than what they say.

He's said it before.

mista335 said:

I believe what people do rather than what they say.

He's said it before.

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Remember the sword of Damocles? He's sitting under the guitar of Wilson. KABONG!

Dan White said:

Not really. It would be an interesting exercise to list the 10 worst things I've said in this forum up against the 10 worst things others have said about me, including the above. However, that would belong in the NPR forum as do your comments.

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The armchair critics will never convince anybody anything about CTE - which you've discovered.