Vintage Minnesota fats tables

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I posted this in the equipment forum a few days ago. it's gotten 75 views and 0 replies, so I'll post it here. I mentioned in a post that I play on a 1971 Minnesota Fats table. Not everyone was impressed. Seems from the 70's and still today, Fats tables were and are sold in department stores and they max out at $1300. We bought ours at a dealership that sold Fats tables exclusively. My dad tells me he paid $600 for it which translates to to $3460 today. He tells me they went out of business shorty after we bought ours. A poster tells me he remembers "Fats" tables at sears in the 70's so someone must have bought the name

Another poster vaguely recalls they might have had an affiliation with Brunswick and were basically Brunswick tables, albeit of lesser quality. That could be. I was at the dealership when we bought it. I was 11. I might be wrong, but I don't think there were any furniture tables at the dealership. So maybe Brunswick had only small number of strictly "play" tables compared to furniture tables as is the case today and "Fats" offered a large selection of "play tables that were less expensive than Brunswick's "play" tables. Any input would be appreciated.
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
If the table has 1" slates and no particle board it may be acceptable.
I know some really good Minnesota Fats cues that light up when hit.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I posted this in the equipment forum a few days ago. it's gotten 75 views and 0 replies, so I'll post it here. I mentioned in a post that I play on a 1971 Minnesota Fats table. Not everyone was impressed. Seems from the 70's and still today, Fats tables were and are sold in department stores and they max out at $1300. We bought ours at a dealership that sold Fats tables exclusively. My dad tells me he paid $600 for it which translates to to $3460 today. He tells me they went out of business shorty after we bought ours. A poster tells me he remembers "Fats" tables at sears in the 70's so someone must have bought the name

Another poster vaguely recalls they might have had an affiliation with Brunswick and were basically Brunswick tables, albeit of lesser quality. That could be. I was at the dealership when we bought it. I was 11. I might be wrong, but I don't think there were any furniture tables at the dealership. So maybe Brunswick had only small number of strictly "play" tables compared to furniture tables as is the case today and "Fats" offered a large selection of "play tables that were less expensive than Brunswick's "play" tables. Any input would be appreciated.


In the mid-60's, not too long after "The Hustler" came out, Fats got a gig as the executive vice-president of Rozel Industries, which made tables with his name. You may have one of those. I'm pretty sure Sears now sells the MF label.

Value? More sentimental to you personally, given the family history. Dollar-wise, probably not much.

Lou Figueroa
 

Toncam

Another Bum !
Silver Member
I still have a Minnesota Fats cue from like 1974 that my pop picked up for me for like $10 and it was my first cue. It had a split in the wood and a clicking sound in the joint and needs to be repainted. I may have it redone, just for the hell of it.
The male screw is on the shaft, not the bottom.
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You don't get it. This is a high quality table; maybe not quite as high as the Brunswick "strictly play" tables from that era but still high quality. When they went out of business, obviously a completely different manufacturer bought the rights to the name and started making department store quality tables and stamped the name Minnesota Fats on them.
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Elroy,

As I said before, I think it may have been under the AMF brand. But I could certainly be wrong.

Best,
Rick
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In the mid-60's, not too long after "The Hustler" came out, Fats got a gig as the executive vice-president of Rozel Industries, which made tables with his name. You may have one of those. I'm pretty sure Sears now sells the MF label.

Value? More sentimental to you personally, given the family history. Dollar-wise, probably not much.

Lou Figueroa
Well; we're not looking to sell it. As I said, My Dad payed $600 dollars for it and bought it at a dealership that sold these tables exclusively. Adjusted for the rate of inflation $600 is equivalent to $3460 dollars today. You can't buy a gold crown with that today but you can definitely buy a quality 8 foot table with it and I see no reason why $600 would not get you a quality table in 1971.
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
Some department store tables .... and I don't mean yours, because I'm not at all familiar with it, but some if not most department store tables that had slate beds had unframed lightweight slate beds and even worse, they had particle board rails rather that solid hardwood. That made the balls come off the rails funny... ah not funny, cheaply like.

Anyway, The three major things that make a quality table IMO, are framed slate, solid table frame, and solid hardwood rails. Again, most department store tables have none of the above, yours may be different.
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Elroy,

As I said before, I think it may have been under the AMF brand. But I could certainly be wrong.

Best,
Rick
Rick,
What exactly is the AMF brand. I'll take a wild guess and say the M stands for Minnesota and the F stands for Fats.
 

Pushout

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rick,
What exactly is the AMF brand. I'll take a wild guess and say the M stands for Minnesota and the F stands for Fats.

You'd be wrong. AMF made stuff for bowling alleys originally, I think. Balls, pins, ball returns, etc. May have been affiliated with Brunswick, I don't remember now. This was long before they got into billiard equipment. Not up to Brunswick standards, for the most part.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Machine_and_Foundry
 
Last edited:

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
Rick,
What exactly is the AMF brand. I'll take a wild guess and say the M stands for Minnesota and the F stands for Fats.

Elroy,

I don't really know what it stood for but I think they had something to do with bowling balls & some other sporting goods equipment.

Did you know that Brunswick makes Power Boats? I think the AMF might have even been associated with some part of that process as well. Maybe that was a plastics division or something.

Is your table base wood or plastic/steel?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

My Dad & I bought our Brunswick Sport King in 1968 from out of a bar that was closing down. We paid $550 for it.

Best,
Rick
 

3andstop

Focus
Silver Member
Elroy,

I don't really know what it stood for but I think they had something to do with bowling balls & some other sporting goods equipment.

Did you know that Brunswick makes Power Boats? I think the AMF might have even been associated with some part of that process as well. Maybe that was a plastics division or something.

Is your table base wood or plastic/steel?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

My Dad & I bought our Brunswick Sport King in 1968 from out of a bar that was closing down. We paid $550 for it.

Best,
Rick

I think it stood for American Machine and Foundry. I also recall AMF tables being very solid. Similar if I recall ... to the old House Of Lords tables. They also had their less expensive lines too.
 

Pushout

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think it stood for American Machine and Foundry. I also recall AMF tables being very solid. Similar if I recall ... to the old House Of Lords tables. They also had their less expensive lines too.

Correct, see my edit in my above post, link to wikipedia.
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Elroy,

I don't really know what it stood for but I think they had something to do with bowling balls & some other sporting goods equipment.

Did you know that Brunswick makes Power Boats? I think the AMF might have even been associated with some part of that process as well. Maybe that was a plastics division or something.

Is your table base wood or plastic/steel?

Sorry I can't be of more help.

My Dad & I bought our Brunswick Sport King in 1968 from out of a bar that was closing down. We paid $550 for it.

Best,
Rick
The base is wood, Rick.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well; we're not looking to sell it. As I said, My Dad payed $600 dollars for it and bought it at a dealership that sold these tables exclusively. Adjusted for the rate of inflation $600 is equivalent to $3460 dollars today. You can't buy a gold crown with that today but you can definitely buy a quality 8 foot table with it and I see no reason why $600 would not get you a quality table in 1971.


The problem is real life. You might have (probably didn't) get a quality table, but there are other possibilities. Making pool tables is a tricky business. Diamond went through sever iteration between supporting the slate properly and getting the rails right before they got it. It is not so easy.

Have you posted pictures?

Lou Figueroa
 

Ralph Kramden

BOOM!.. ZOOM!.. MOON!
Silver Member
Rick,
What exactly is the AMF brand. I'll take a wild guess and say the M stands for Minnesota and the F stands for Fats.

Do a Google search for AMF pool tables. AMF made some decent tables.
I don't think the AMF logo has anything do with the name Minnesota Fats.
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The problem is real life. You might have (probably didn't) get a quality table, but there are other possibilities. Making pool tables is a tricky business. Diamond went through sever iteration between supporting the slate properly and getting the rails right before they got it. It is not so easy.

Have you posted pictures?

Lou Figueroa
I don't have the equipment for pictures. It has 1 inch real slate, a wooden frame and the ball rolls very true. It's gone off level about 5 times over 42 years and I've had to go down there with a wrench and fix things. It was always very easy. I have simonis 760 on it and I was complaining in a thread over the weekend that although 760 is supposed to be fast, mine is not as fast as I want to be. Someone told me it's probably mighty fast and the problem is the cushions. I never thought of that. I haven't replaced the original ones. I'll have to do that. Other than that issue, I couldn't be happier with it.

Anyhow; if this thread stays up, someone is going to know something. I live in a suburb that borders the city limits of Chicago. There was a dealership that sold exclusively Minnesoata Fats tables in town. It was a fairly big place with many different tables and a big sign outside that said "Minnesota Fats pool tables." I doubt if it was the only dealership. We bought it in 1971 and we think the whole company went out of business shortly thereafter. Someone has to know something.
 

Mr. Bond

Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
Fats was hired as the executive VP of the Pre-Vue Company in about 1964. They were based out of Winnipeg, Manitoba.

The "Minnesota Fats" line of tables included 30 different models ranging from $225 all the way up to $3000.
Of course there was also a whole range of accessories as well.

I don't see any evidence that the Fats brand was associated with Brunswick in any way.

The Pre- Vue Corporation started having financial difficulties in about 1982 and eventually went under.
...

In about 1992 the Fats brand was brought back to life by Abraham Stern of Skokie, IL ( Minnesota Fats Billiard Factory) but has since been sold off to somone else (DMI Inc ?) who still produces items under the Fats name.
 
Last edited:

realkingcobra

Well-known member
Silver Member
You don't get it. This is a high quality table; maybe not quite as high as the Brunswick "strictly play" tables from that era but still high quality. When they went out of business, obviously a completely different manufacturer bought the rights to the name and started making department store quality tables and stamped the name Minnesota Fats on them.

If you want the truth, and can handle the truth about this table, ask your question to the guys that actually have had to work on them, then you'll get some facts, and not thoughts;) ask the table mechanic's about this table in the "Talk to a mechanic" section...that's WHY it's here:grin:

Glen
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Fats was hired as the executive VP of the Pre-Vue Company in about 1964. They were based out of Winnipeg, Manitoba.

The "Minnesota Fats" line of tables included 30 different models ranging from $225 all the way up to $3000.
Of course there was also a whole range of accessories as well.

I don't see any evidence that the Fats brand was associated with Brunswick in any way.

The Pre- Vue Corporation started having financial difficulties in about 1982 and eventually went under.
...

In about 1992 the Fats brand was brought back to life by Abraham Stern of Skokie, IL ( Minnesota Fats Billiard Factory) but has since been sold off to somone else (DMI Inc ?) who still produces items under the Fats name.
Thank you very much. Chicago, of course, is where the smart people live. One poster said he remembers them being at Sears in the 70's. Maybe the $250 one but I doubt if they ever sold $3,000 table at Sears then or now. Adjusted for inflation 3,000 dollars in 1982 translates to $7,682 today. I'll betcha that $ 3,000 table was pretty good and the table my dad bought for $600 which translates to $3,460 today is pretty good. Now I can stop answering the question, "Does it have slate?" Thanks again.
 
Top