U.S. Open rules discussion

break box 9 on the spot is the way to go it seemed very effective in last years Mosconi Cup
it is good to see you back as TD Jay you always do a good job thanks for all you do one of the good guys in pool for sure

One of the reasons I love the US Open is the format has always stayed true to the way 9 ball has always been played. Winner breaks, Texas Express. I'd like like to see the 1 ball stay on the spot like its always been. Yes the wing ball is wired, it always has been. Break & runs is exciting pool. The Open has been one of the premier events in pool for almost 40 years, why change anything? IMO it's the constant change of rules regarding the break in different events that lends to the carnival atmosphere surrounding this game & the Open should stay as its always been.

With break box rules, the wing ball doesn't go as often. Want to make it tougher? Speed control harder? I assume you will be using Simonis cloth. Maybe think of using 760 instead of 860?

9 ball on spot, no soft break (monitored by TD or ref), no 3 balls pocketed or past line. Make it clear to all players that soft break will get you loss of game or worse. Johnnyt

I just like the idea of the traditional one on the spot. I also like the though of it not being a break contest. So with that said I think I would like to see 9 on the spot, break box, no balls past rule, all ball fouls, and a shot clock.

Johnnyt said:

9 ball on spot, no soft break (monitored by TD or ref), no 3 balls pocketed or past line. Make it clear to all players that soft break will get you loss of game or worse. Johnnyt

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This seems fair and right.
Question for Jay:
Why not a foul on EVERY accidental touch of a shirt sleeve or similar?

Personally, I think it's time for pool players to grow a pair! Acknowledge ALL FOULS, movement or no movement. Touch any ball accidentally - its a foul. Touch cue ball accidentally - it's a foul!
This is the general rule in SNOOKER - In clubs, amateur to professional. Look at where Snooker is compared to Pool...
Seriously! This is THE US OPEN - FOULS ON EVERYTHING!
If the kitchen is too hot - then get the F$%K OUTA DODGE! :thumb up:

I d say: Rack your own winner breaks and:

In order to avoid that players are using the so-called “soft-breaks” that would allow increased control over breaks and allow advantages beyond what was foreseen when the 9-Ball discipline was introduced, the EPBF has decided to introduce special break rules. The following rules are to be seen as an addition to the WPA 9-Ball rules that otherwise are valid in all EPBF events (excluded from this rule: Wheelchairs and Girls).

Additional demands for a satisfactory break:
At least three (3) object balls must either be pocketed or touch (see special notes below) the head string as a result of a break in order for it to be satisfactory. Any combination of the above (i.e. 1 object ball pocketed and 2 object balls touching the head string, or 2 object balls pocketed and 1 object ball touching the head string) is also satisfactory.

Failure to meet additional conditions:
If a player fails to fulfil the additional demands, but is otherwise performing a legal break, the break is considered non-satisfactory and the following rules are to be followed:

1. If the 9-ball has been pocketed it shall be re-spotted before play is continued.
2. The opponent may choose either to accept the table as it is, or hand it back to the player that performed the break.
3. In case the opponent accepts the table as it is, he/she will not be allowed to perform a push-out.
4. If the table is handed back to the player that performed the break, he/she is allowed to perform a push-out. If a push-out is being played the opponent has the option to accept the table as it is, or again hand the table back.

Special notes:
A. The WPA rules for 9-Ball are to be considered at all times, and the special 9-Ball break rules as described in the above are additions to these rules, valid for a tournament only when introduced beforehand.
B. Whenever a break is legal according to the WPA rules, and the above additional demands for a satisfactory break (if in use) has been met, the player on the table is allowed to perform a push-out.
C. In order to meet the additional demands for a satisfactory break, object ball(s) do not have to cross the head string completely. It is enough if any part of an object ball, as seen from above, is breaking the head string.
D. If an object ball crosses the head string and returns into a pocket, it is only counted as 1 ball achieving the required rule, not 2.

jay helfert said:

As TD this year it is my goal to make the rules as fair as possible for everyone. It will be a stellar field, full of great players, and for that I'm excited. Since this is a WPA sanctioned event we will follow their rules as closely as possible.

OK, all clear so far.

9-Ball, Texas Express, Winner Breaks and Rack Your Own for starters. We will be playing Foul on All Balls, which is the way most major events are played today all over the world. An incidental touch of a shirt sleeve will not constitute a foul unless the ball moves. It's actually much easier to officiate playing all ball fouls than playing cue ball fouls only. If a ball moves you fouled and there is no question about it.

Here is where I start getting confused. WPA rules state touching a ball is a foul, no matter if the ball moved.

The big question is how to rack the balls, and there is no clear WPA rule to cover that. We will definitely be using the break box and can either rack the one on the spot or the nine on the spot. The problem with racking the one on the spot is the wing ball is wired for one of the corner pockets, thus making a run-out that much easier. With the nine on the spot this is not the case. Most of the top players I've talked to support the idea of racking the nine on the spot. It makes for a better game requiring more skill. That's the way they do it on all Matchroom events and it seems to work pretty well for them.

Again a little confused. WPA rules state 1 on the spot.

Barry's goal as the promoter of this event is to make it the best test of pool in the USA, similar to the U.S. Open in golf. I'm still open to suggestions about this and anything else rule related. I seriously doubt we will require three or more balls to be pocketed or sent past the head string. But we will not allow soft breaking. A cut break is okay as long as a firm stroke is used.

And, again, confusion. WPA rules state for a legal break 1 ball has to be pocketed or 4 have to touch a rail.

Thanks for your input. Barry has a lot of faith in the members of this forum and he asked me to please put this out there for all to see. It also serves to inform the players in advance what rules we will be using.

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I hope you do not think I am just being argumentative, but I do feel you have to make a choice
between either following the WPA rules as closely as possible, or, make this it the best test of pool in the USA.
Because I definitely concede that the standard WPA rules are not there to make the game as hard as possible.

gr. Dave

To add.....if you do use 3 balls pocketed or past head string, you could modify it to 3 balls made or past centerline. It would eliminate soft breaks and reduce the number of illegal breaks. Just a thought.

9 on the spot, hit em hard. Works so good for matchroom, why change that part of it?

buckshotshoey said:

To add.....if you do use 3 balls pocketed or past head string, you could modify it to 3 balls made or past centerline. It would eliminate soft breaks and reduce the number of illegal breaks. Just a thought.

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Agreed.

Glad to see you back at The US Open, Jay. The way it should be...

I like 'Touching any ball is a foul'.....but you need a ref for each match.

I also like moving the break box back to within one diamond of the end rail.....
.....four object balls must hit a rail on the break.

I think all WPA rules should used in all events period.

Since most players want 9 on the spot, that is something to be definitely considered.
We need to know 2 more things before offering an opinion:
-method of racking (membrane, triangle, etc)
-size of box ("big" or "small" like in Mosconi cup)
Thanks,
Petros

Having just watched the World Cup of Pool, I feel strongly that there should be a neutral racker, and if manpower is the issue, at very least once the event is down to 16 players. Rack your own is ruining our game, and has resulted in gamesmanship and arguments involving dozens of players. In bowling, one is allowed a rerack once per match, and this would be a good rule to adopt in pool if a neutral racker is used.

Although it made for very exciting pool last December, I don't think 9 on the spot is fair at this point, because players have not been given sufficient notice prepare for it.

No illegal break rule --- please, please, please.

oldschool1478 said:

I think all WPA rules should used in all events period.

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I think we should tell the WPA to take a flying ....! Johnnyt

Once you change the traditional way of racking the balls, then the game is no longer the same.

So you may as well:

Rack 10 balls and remove the 10 ball after the break.

or -- Rack all 15 with the 9 in the middle and remove the 10-15 balls after the break.

or -- Just randomly throw the balls out on to the table and eliminate the break completely.

FranCrimi said:

or -- Just randomly throw the balls out on to the table and eliminate the break completely.

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Thank you for the great morning chuckle. :grin-square:

:rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1::rotflmao1: