No Aiming System?

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
That's a complete back peddle and excuse for not putting yourself in a position to name someone with EXPERIENCE as an instructor or personal skill and success in those areas. Maybe you should think twice before striking computer keys once the next time.

I think everyone would choose those with a NAME, EXPERIENCE, AND SUCCESS for their high level performance in said genre as well as success in instructing others to higher levels of skill and success.

Choosing some no name just doesn't make sense unless he/she has a load of bullsh*t that makes a person think they're great.

The only reason to go with a no name or lesser name wouldn't be for anything else other than convenience and especially MONEY.

Or in my case with learning how to play a guitar, who cares. If they can play "Mary Has a Little Lamb" or "Home, Home On The Range" they're light years ahead of me and would be to my benefit. "Stairway To Heaven" would be in my next reincarnation with another instructor.


No back peddling. I simply believe that when you reach a certain skill level, whether it's in pool, music, golf or anything else, all the information you need to improve beyond that skill level is readily available in books and DVDs, or countless magazines and website resources.

Some people need to shown by example on how to do something, while others can figure it out on their own by reading instructions. It all falls back to that analogy about putting together a TV stand or whatever. There are people that need written or verbal instructions when it comes to learning how to do objective tasks. They need to be shown how to perform the task, hands-on learning. My wife is like that, as are many of my friends. They are smart people, but for some reason they learn best by example, by being shown how to do something.

Others can learn by example or by written or verbal instructions. I'm in this group, which makes it difficult sometimes to understand why anyone would pay for a lesson to learn something that I and many others have learned on our own. And this isn't to say private lessons can't benefit us also. It's just that we are more selective when it comes to those lessons.

Back in college I tutored trig and algebra for extra money. I found that most students who were struggling with these math classes were struggling because of the teaching methods in the book, not because they weren't smart enough to do the work. They were wired in a manner that required something other than explicit instruction in order to understand. I would show them my thought process for solving a particular math problem, many times not in accordance with the written book lessons, and the student would immediately understand it. It was like a switch got flipped on and they could suddenly see what had always been there, only now it made sense.

Here's my list of dream instruction:

POOL: Efren Reyes and one instructor. Efren because I'd like to know what goes on in his head while he is playing. One instructor with good reviews, like Matt, Stan, Scott, Robyn, etc...that could watch and recognize potential flaws in my fundamentals. But the instructor I pick would be based on a combination of other people's opinions and my own impression of them after meeting each one. Sorry if you don't like that answer, but that's the reality of it.

GOLF: Butch Harmon and Will Johnson. Butch has a great reputation for results. Will is a local college golf instructor here in Charleston. He is also a top notch tennis player and one of the best pool players in the tri-state area, as well as an avid reader. There's always something to be learned from multi-talented people.

GUITAR: I wouldn't waste my time or any instructor's time for guitar lessons. I play the way I play and I am not looking for anything more. I have my own style and I'm not interested in working on someone else's. Would I like to play like Bonamassa? Sure. But that's not something that'll come from guitar lessons. It's something that requires hours of dedicated practice on finger speed and pick speed.

When you reach a certain skill level, be it in pool, golf, guitar, or whatever....you have to come to the realization that you likely won't learn anything new from private lessons. What you will learn is that you need to commit yourself to quality practice time if you want to get better at doing these things you already know how to do. So at this point, the best instructor would be the one can teach you how to practice, how to refine your knowledge.
 
Last edited:

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
no back peddling. I simply believe that when you reach a certain skill level, whether it's in pool, music, golf or anything else, all the information you need to improve beyond that skill level is readily available in books and dvds, or countless magazines and website resources.

tell that to all the pga tour players who have personal instructors, which is about 90% of them

tell that to professional baseball players who have batting coaches, pitching coaches, and running coaches.

Tell that to a number of pro pool players who do in fact go to pro instructors to get sharp, stay sharp, or get out of a slump.


some people need to shown by example on how to do something, while others can figure it out on their own by reading instructions. It all falls back to that analogy about putting together a tv stand or whatever. There are people that need written or verbal instructions when it comes to learning how to do objective tasks. They need to be shown how to perform the task, hands-on learning. My wife is like that, as are many of my friends. They are smart people, but for some reason they learn best by example, by being shown how to do something.

you keep missing something here and it's not sinking into your skull. It's a visual inability to see ourselves and all the facets coming into play along with an incorrect diagnosis. We start trying to fix problems that might not even be the problem or don't know enough to fix it even after lucking onto it.

It takes a different set of eyes. Well trained eyes to diagnose and then fix. You do know most medical doctors go to other trusted medical doctors when they have something wrong and complex, don't you? They do it because they sometimes have a personal bias as far as what it is or might be when it's themselves. I have a dr. Friend like that and he told me most do.


others can learn by example or by written or verbal instructions. I'm in this group, which makes it difficult sometimes to understand why anyone would pay for a lesson to learn something that i and many others have learned on our own. And this isn't to say private lessons can't benefit us also. It's just that we are more selective when it comes to those lessons.

or maybe you're a "do it yourselfer" who prides himself by singing "i did it my way". (i can hear frank sinatra singing it now)

here's my list of dream instruction:

Pool: Efren reyes and one instructor. Efren because i'd like to know what goes on in his head while he is playing. One instructor with good reviews, like matt, stan, scott, robyn, etc...that could watch and recognize potential flaws in my fundamentals. But the instructor i pick would be based on a combination of other people's opinions and my own impression of them after meeting each one. Sorry if you don't like that answer, but that's the reality of it.

now that wasn't all too hard was it? Btw, they all have great experience playing and teaching which was downplayed when you posted this:

"experience is not the major contributing factor leading to expertise."

you might have a major language barrier with efren.



golf: Butch harmon and will johnson. Butch has a great reputation for results. Will is a local college golf instructor here in charleston. He is also a top notch tennis player and one of the best pool players in the tri-state area, as well as an avid reader. There's always something to be learned from multi-talented people.

i have nothing to say. It's your choice. Butch harmon - long time experience as a pga tour player himself and especially instructing to produce winners and huge money earnings for those he taught.

guitar: I wouldn't waste my time or any instructor's time for guitar lessons. I play the way i play and i am not looking for anything more. I have my own style and i'm not interested in working on someone else's. Would i like to play like bonamassa? Sure. But that's not something that'll come from guitar lessons. It's something that requires hours of dedicated practice on finger speed and pick speed.

When you reach a certain skill level, be it in pool, golf, guitar, or whatever....you have to come to the realization that you likely won't learn anything new from private lessons.

wow, what an attitude and outlook. I hope i never become a know it all.

what you will learn is that you need to commit yourself to quality practice time if you want to get better at doing these things you already know how to do. So at this point, the best instructor would be the one can teach you how to practice, how to refine your knowledge.

"i did it myyyyy wayyyyy". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E2hYDIFDIU
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
.......
now that wasn't all too hard was it? Btw, they all have great experience playing and teaching which was downplayed when you posted this:

"experience is not the major contributing factor leading to expertise."
..............

wow, what an attitude and outlook. I hope i never become a know it all.



There is one simple thing here you are not understanding. You are automatically jumping to the typical "you're a know it all" response. What you refer to as being a "know it all" is simple reasoning and a firm grasp of reality.

Back when I was giving music lessons, the most common problem students had wasn't a lack of fundamental knowledge or understanding of how to do something. It was LACK OF PRACTICE. You can watch and learn all you want to, but if you don't practice what you learn or put to use any acquired knowledge, you'll come back in a for another lesson and will be no better than you were before the first lesson. I saw it all the time. People wanting to be great drummers or guitar players, thinking that there's some secret knowledge that'll get them there other than working for it. Same thing with pool players or golfers or whatever. It takes work, working with aquired knowledge to develop excellent skills. This is my fault...lack of practice, so what in the world could I possibly learn that would miraculously make be better at anything if I choose not to practice what I learn or what I already know?

When I say I think there's a certain point (after you reach a certain skill level) that you have to come to the realization that you likely won't learn anything new from private lessons, it doesn't mean I (or you or anyone else) already know all there is to know. It means we have to admit that the likely reason we aren't better than we'd like to be is due to a lack of work, not a lack of knowledge.

Here's the reality of your instructor questions: I play golf about 4 or 5 times a year. Why would I waste my time or money, or any instructor's time for that matter, for a lesson? Lol. When I was giving music lessons I was doing it because I was passionate about it. If a student came in for 2 or 3 lessons and showed an obvious lack of practice, I would tell him/her that they should find another instructor that doesn't mind taking their money. My primary goal wasn't the $25 every time they walked in -- I had a fulltime job outside of this. My goal was to teach. But teaching is not a one way street....the student must be willing to work in order to learn.
 
Last edited:

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
I have heard great things about Butch Harmon. Phil Mickelson is my favorite pro golfer.

Not sure about lessons from Sigel or Earl. I wouldn't assume their playing skills are equivalent to their teaching skills. I've heard that a lesson with Earl is more like a personal exhibition where you get to see up close just how awesome he is. I would want to ensure that my instructor is good at spotting stroke flaws and flexible enough to recognize whether or not such flaws are actually creating a problem. I wouldn't pay an instructor to give me basic lessons on pocketing balls and how to move the cb around the table for position -- this is basic stuff that can be found in many instructional books already.

I have no reason to believe pool instructors are any different than school teachers or any other lesson givers out there. Teachers often get settled into their own bias opinions about how something should be taught or done, like the the stance or aiming when playing pool. So I'd choose my teachers wisely, based on who I think can help me with my needs, not based on popularity or an impressive row of trophies.

I'm sure I could give you great guitar lessons. And if you advanced quickly and decided you wanted to pursue jazz improv or percussion finger style, I would put you in touch with someone more in tune with that genre of music, like my buddy Spencer, who is self-taught, here: https://youtu.be/ZAxK1z-BUUk?t=45s



See that’s the only reason I’d be getting lessons from earl, game theory/pattern play.....I’m sure as hell not gonna have him tell me if I’m standing ok lol.

I’d go to Shane and Charlie for the break say
Ray Martin patterns
John brumback/david Matlock bank/kick
If I talked to a player about the mental side just in your head i think I’d like to pick Neils Fien’s brain.

Now if you want to learn some crazy shots sure call earl or Tony


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
OK. A new twist and story to rationalize the old story. I think we've milked this as far as it can go. Adios (at least on this issue)
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
If I was to get guitar lessons it would be from David Gilmour;

https://www.google.com/search?q=david+gilmour&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b-1-ab

Pool would be Joe Balsis;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOdytPHIVfI

Golf, it would not matter because any instructor I would choose would tell me to take up snorkeling so I wouldn't lose so many golf balls.

Great choices. And I don't consider you a know-it-all for ducking on golf lessons. I consider you pretty smart for realizing your limitations and recognizing what you are or aren't willing to invest in as far as time and money.
 

Tony_in_MD

You want some of this?
Silver Member
The only reasons I ever golfed was to smoke cigars and drink beer.

Then I discovered I could do that most anyplace else.

:p

Great choices. And I don't consider you a know-it-all for ducking on golf lessons. I consider you pretty smart for realizing your limitations and recognizing what you are or aren't willing to invest in as far as time and money.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
See that’s the only reason I’d be getting lessons from earl, game theory/pattern play.....I’m sure as hell not gonna have him tell me if I’m standing ok lol.

I’d go to Shane and Charlie for the break say
Ray Martin patterns
John brumback/david Matlock bank/kick
If I talked to a player about the mental side just in your head i think I’d like to pick Neils Fien’s brain.

Now if you want to learn some crazy shots sure call earl or Tony


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Makes perfect sense if you're looking for help with pattern play and overall game theory. Plenty of great players to learn that from. In person would certainly be better than watching on TV or YouTube, because you could ask "Why did you play it that way instead of this way?" That's why I'd choose Efren....to learn how he thinks during the game. I surely wouldn't ask him or Earl or Shane to critique my stance or stroke.

Brumback is another great pick!
 

Dan White

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can't even spell commie (commy? commey? commee?). That should answer both we questions. :D

I think it's Comie, James Comie. At least he's figured out the disinformation campaign that the real commie's used.
 

bbb

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Back when I was giving music lessons, the most common problem students had wasn't a lack of fundamental knowledge or understanding of how to do something. It was LACK OF PRACTICE. You can watch and learn all you want to, but if you don't practice what you learn or put to use any acquired knowledge, you'll come back in a for another lesson and will be no better than you were before the first lesson. I saw it all the time. People wanting to be great drummers or guitar players, thinking that there's some secret knowledge that'll get them there other than working for it. Same thing with pool players or golfers or whatever. It takes work, working with aquired knowledge to develop excellent skills. This is my fault...lack of practice, so what in the world could I possibly learn that would miraculously make be better at anything if I choose not to practice what I learn or what I already know?

When I say I think there's a certain point (after you reach a certain skill level) that you have to come to the realization that you likely won't learn anything new from private lessons, it doesn't mean I (or you or anyone else) already know all there is to know. It means we have to admit that the likely reason we aren't better than we'd like to be is due to a lack of work, not a lack of knowledge.

Here's the reality of your instructor questions: I play golf about 4 or 5 times a year. Why would I waste my time or money, or any instructor's time for that matter, for a lesson? Lol. When I was giving music lessons I was doing it because I was passionate about it. If a student came in for 2 or 3 lessons and showed an obvious lack of practice, I would tell him/her that they should find another instructor that doesn't mind taking their money. My primary goal wasn't the $25 every time they walked in -- I had a fulltime job outside of this. My goal was to teach. But teaching is not a one way street....the student must be willing to work in order to learn.

here is a quick story....has nothingmto do with no aiming system...sorry
when i was 16 (1969 ..woodstock :) ) i went on a 6 week cross country bus trip
one of the greatest experiences of my life
if noone has ever done that it is amazing what the usa has to offer
all the national parks
the drive up the coast of californiaredwood forests etc
during that tme i learned a few guitar chords and to play a few songs
i decided to take a classical guitar course in college as pass fail
at one lesson my teacher could tell i didnt practice that week
he asked me about it
i told him
"i was working on my SOUND "
he didint buy it
i made a point to practice after that
i couldnt fool him
:)
elias barreiro
http://the-guitar.com/elias-barreiro/
bottom line
YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THE TIME
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
here is a quick story....has nothingmto do with no aiming system...sorry
when i was 16 (1969 ..woodstock :) ) i went on a 6 week cross country bus trip
one of the greatest experiences of my life
if noone has ever done that it is amazing what the usa has to offer
all the national parks
the drive up the coast of californiaredwood forests etc
during that tme i learned a few guitar chords and to play a few songs
i decided to take a classical guitar course in college as pass fail
at one lesson my teacher could tell i didnt practice that week
he asked me about it
i told him
"i was working on my SOUND "
he didint buy it
i made a point to practice after that
i couldnt fool him
:)
elias barreiro
http://the-guitar.com/elias-barreiro/
bottom line
YOU HAVE TO PUT IN THE TIME

Excellent story! Sounds like great times. And a great lesson.
 
Top