What joint construction hits most like ivory?

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes, I know some claim that in blind tests no one can tell the difference between the feel of an ivory cue and a SS joint or other construction, but having recent experience hitting almost identical cues at the same time with a radial ivory joint and with a radial wood to wood joint I do not believe that.

So my question is simple.

Since you cannot in most cases order an ivory joint cue anymore, what joint construction with a big pin will product a hit and feel most like an ivory joint?
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Elforyn is the most common substitute. I have used it several times and I have nothing but good things to say about Elforyn. Warther has their own Resin-ivory, I got some test pieces with my last jet-phen order, but I have yet to try it. The colour and pattern looks more like Ivory than Elforyn does.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Was the ivory joint collar you tried capped or a through one ?

The material AND the configuration add to the hit .

But, the closest to ivory in properties to me is stag horn. Hard and heavy.
Stag cannot be capped as it has marrow.
 

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was the ivory joint collar you tried capped or a through one ?

The material AND the configuration add to the hit .

But, the closest to ivory in properties to me is stag horn. Hard and heavy.
Stag cannot be capped as it has marrow.

Ivam not sure. Both we're radial pin Scruggs
 

ideologist

I don't never exaggerate
Silver Member
Ivam not sure. Both we're radial pin Scruggs

Did the ivory look like a solid piece, or could you see wood and such with the ivory sleeved over?

That's what he is asking.

If the ivory had a phenolic tenon backing it up, that is different from a solid ivory joint, which is different from a sleeved joint.

If the forearm is cored vs uncored vs tighter construction, they all matter. It's not the joint material.
 

Mcues

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Elforyn is the most common substitute. I have used it several times and I have nothing but good things to say about Elforyn. Warther has their own Resin-ivory, I got some test pieces with my last jet-phen order, but I have yet to try it. The colour and pattern looks more like Ivory than Elforyn does.

Looks and feel are not related. :)

Mario
 

johnnysd

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Did the ivory look like a solid piece, or could you see wood and such with the ivory sleeved over?

That's what he is asking.

If the ivory had a phenolic tenon backing it up, that is different from a solid ivory joint, which is different from a sleeved joint.

If the forearm is cored vs uncored vs tighter construction, they all matter. It's not the joint material.

It was flat faced looked like a solid piece.
 

Kim Bye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Looks and feel are not related. :)

Mario

Yes you are right. It`s one of those cases of answering a thread while on the subway :embarrassed2:
Joey has allready pointed out that how the joint is constructed has alot to say. I`ve seen ivory sandwiched with SS and phenolic, piloted and flat faced etc.
If it`s a flat faced solid ivory joint (I`m reading that as capped) all I can think is that it might be slightly on the heavy side?
 

qbilder

slower than snails
Silver Member
I tend to be in the "joint doesn't matter" camp. My thought is that two identical cues with different joint materials will hit identical, given weight distribution is the same. Case in point, take a cue with phenolic joint & swap the phenolic with ivory. Nothing changes except the joint material. The cue will not hit different. Changing it from metal to ivory may give a perception change because it'll force the balance forward, but the actual hit will not change. That's my story & i'm sticking to it.
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I tend to be in the "joint doesn't matter" camp. My thought is that two identical cues with different joint materials will hit identical, given weight distribution is the same. Case in point, take a cue with phenolic joint & swap the phenolic with ivory. Nothing changes except the joint material. The cue will not hit different. Changing it from metal to ivory may give a perception change because it'll force the balance forward, but the actual hit will not change. That's my story & i'm sticking to it.

I would have to agree, I test hit my ivory jointed 5/16-14 last night against my new 5/16-14 steel joint I built for myself. I built both cues exactly the same as far as joint sizes, pilot, shaft dimensions etc. I WANTED to feel a difference....but Eric is right. Even with a slightly more forward balance it took about two racks to go from "wow that's different" to my body deciding without thought to move my hand an inch forward on the wrap and then suddenly the cue hit EXACTLY like my ivory joint.

I also built a flat faced 3/8-10 stainless jointed cue for a customer. It hits just like every other flat faced non-steel 3/8-10 cue that I've ever built.
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Sounds like a capped ivory. Pretty tough one to copy.
Closest one would probably be a capped G-10 or canvas phenolic.
They don't come in white though.

Wasn't there a material at one point called "Grice" that was supposedly fairly close to an Ivory-Like hit? Maybe I'm confused but it sticks out in my failing memory for some reason.
 

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Wasn't there a material at one point called "Grice" that was supposedly fairly close to an Ivory-Like hit? Maybe I'm confused but it sticks out in my failing memory for some reason.

It was OK but softer.
Ivor-X was closer to ivory but we couldn't find it thicker than 3/4".
 

Bumlak

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Elforyn is the most common substitute. I have used it several times and I have nothing but good things to say about Elforyn. Warther has their own Resin-ivory, I got some test pieces with my last jet-phen order, but I have yet to try it. The colour and pattern looks more like Ivory than Elforyn does.

The Resin Ivory and the Jet-Phen are both pretty good. The cut is consistent and both sand and polish very well.

I never used Elforyn because I heard some of the complaints about inconsistency etc. Whether those complaints were founded or not is something I honestly never chased down. I should probably consider getting some to try.
 
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