Opinions of Pool/Billiards as a Profession

asianevil said:

Who out there knows someone that is using Pool as a profession?

Relying on this sport/recreational hobby 75% or more for their main income?

I know everyone has a different standard of living but at what point does one become delusional that they can survive doing this? The heyday's of the 70' and 80's are over, now I can't even imagine that the top 5 pros can survive with all the traveling costs that are involved. How about health insurance (let's leave Obamacare out of this for now)?

I'm baffled at who would make such a decision to put aside a paying gig for being broke.

Comments/Thoughts?

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You only live once!
I'm sure most pro / semi pro pool players live by this motto.
Further more; the top 5 pro pool players are making more than enough to sustain a living and I'm sure the smart ones out aside a % of earnings for when they are older / get sick. Some have been known to even make wisely investments :thumbup:

Rhea can provide you all the details

Personally I think it works if you're in a situation where 1) you have an unheard of amount of talent, and 2) can financially take the risk of failure.

It's a lot like being a musician, except it's a lot easier to measure your chances for success in pool. A 20-year old pool player or musician can say "okay, I'm going to give this three years and if it doesn't work I'll get a job." But after three years the pool player has more objective data on which to make a go/stop decision; the musician always thinks he'll get his big break and be discovered.

The biggest problem I see is that there aren't even many pool rooms left in which to get a job, or many up-and-coming players who want to pay for lessons, i.e. it's hard to support yourself with a "job" in the industry while you practice for the US Open.

asianevil said:

Who out there knows someone that is using Pool as a profession?

Relying on this sport/recreational hobby 75% or more for their main income?

I know everyone has a different standard of living but at what point does one become delusional that they can survive doing this? The heyday's of the 70' and 80's are over, now I can't even imagine that the top 5 pros can survive with all the traveling costs that are involved. How about health insurance (let's leave Obamacare out of this for now)?

I'm baffled at who would make such a decision to put aside a paying gig for being broke.

Comments/Thoughts?

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I know of a guy who claims pool as his profession (has a sporty one pocket game). Oddly enough, he also works on filming famous TV shows. Maybe this Christmas I'll ask him if his pool winnings are 75% of his income.

I think it is possible with a caveat - we're not just talking about income from winning tournaments.

The pro will have to aggressively market him/herself for other pool-related gigs... Product endorsements, clinics, coaching, etc.

Honestly, how many pros out there even have a regularly updated website offering his/her products and services? How many are making a splash in their local communities as a proven professional who can be hired to start a billiards program, in a community center or school? How many of them have a plan to promote themselves as a savvy businessperson who understands the ins and outs of the industry? How many realize that without their commitment to the advancement of the sport, there will be fewer business opportunities for them?

Hi,

The problem is that pool is so unsteady, and having to play well all the time is stressful. I have played pool for a living for about 7-8 years of my life and I did OK at it. I was making between 30-50k a year, living in a one bedroom apartment. Its possible but its not on the national or regional tournament trail as it would seem, but rather playing every single weekly tournament in my area and trying to gamble with anyone who would play. I traveled to any regional and national events as time and finances permitted.

The issue is most of these tournaments are handicapped, so my handicap was ever rising to the point I was spotting all the top players in the area significant weight. This was my bread and butter so I had to find a way to win, but this killed my action as people wanted more and more weight. It can only go on for so long before you just cannot get a good game or you get barred from every tournament because people would drop out in droves the moment you showed up.

I wanted to play pool for a living and sort of still would love to, but the realities are there.. Only a handful can make real good money, and even the superstars don't always fare well from year to year. If you want any kind of family life, stable income, retirement or normalcy at all, pool is not necessarily the best way. I prefer all the aforementioned things and I have them, but I keep pool in my life and have ambitious plans to become more involved in the future. I will never not work, but I understand the symbiotic relationship that pool can be in my life and I keep it there as my passion.

For all those who want to head down the difficult road of pool for a living, please make sure you have an education and money set aside. You always need something to fall back on and even though you live once, do you really want to be drinking from the ditches your entire life if you don't "make it"?

I find it interesting that NONE of the "pro" players who have posted in this thread even consider the option of being a pool entertainer, ala Mike Massey, Dr Cue (Tom Rossman), or myself (I know so far just Ray and Adam have posted, but this holds true for the majority of pro players...Americans anyway). I have been successful as an instructor and pool entertainer for the past 20 years. Not all pros can do what I do, just as I could not compete seriously (read: win 1st or 2nd) at a professional tournament level. That said there are literally millions of dollars available, doing exhibitions in colleges, military bases and corporate events. Pure skill at the table is probably the smallest necessary part of the pie. Attitude is probably the most important element, and humility is a huge part of that, as is dressing and acting like a professional. Many people may diss trick shots, but to the average person they are mesmerizing, and an easy way to build a rapport with an audience. Just as a comparison...there are 8000 public and private, two-year and four-year colleges and universities just here in the USA. Add in hundreds of military bases, and thousands of corporate events every year, and you have opportunities for hundreds of people to create a niche for themselves. If you really want to make a "living wage" from pool, this is the best chance.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Scott Lee said:

I find it interesting that NONE of the "pro" players who have posted in this thread even consider the option of being a pool entertainer, ala Mike Massey, Dr Cue (Tom Rossman), or myself (I know so far just Ray and Adam have posted, but this holds true for the majority of pro players...Americans anyway). I have been successful as an instructor and pool entertainer for the past 20 years. Not all pros can do what I do, just as I could not compete seriously (read: win 1st or 2nd) at a professional tournament level. That said there are literally millions of dollars available, doing exhibitions in colleges, military bases and corporate events. Pure skill at the table is probably the smallest necessary part of the pie. Attitude is probably the most important element, and humility is a huge part of that, as is dressing and acting like a professional. Many people may diss trick shots, but to the average person they are mesmerizing, and an easy way to build a rapport with an audience. Just as a comparison...there are 8000 public and private, two-year and four-year colleges and universities just here in the USA. Add in hundreds of military bases, and thousands of corporate events every year, and you have opportunities for hundreds of people to create a niche for themselves. If you really want to make a "living wage" from pool, this is the best chance.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

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Good insight about making a living in the pool world, although not quite by straight playing and winning tournaments.

I can see Florian getting to a pretty good income since he is well marketed. Not a lot of pool players have gotten a front page video on major web sites or have been on TV shows, he's managed that.

Exactly...making a living playing is a tough road to hoe (no matter who you are, how well you play, or where you play). Working steady as an entertainer is much less so...and there's plenty of work. I see Florian as the exception to the rule. Few in the world possess his skills at masse', and none, including himself, who believe he could make a living as professional tournament player. Florian's new association with the APA will reward him handsomely over the next several years. I agree with your assessment of his "marketing".


Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

hang-the-9 said:

Good insight about making a living in the pool world, although not quite by straight playing and winning tournaments.

I can see Florian getting to a pretty good income since he is well marketed. Not a lot of pool players have gotten a front page video on major web sites or have been on TV shows, he's managed that.

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Only a handful rely on pool competition for most of their income, perhaps less than 100 in the world.

At least in America, the real pros are the top instructors and the league operators, and in some cases, the cuemakers, the promoters and poolroom proprietors. Those pros have a pretty good shot at recurring income that will ensure a decent living.

Professional players in America are a different matter. Without good sponsorship behind them, American-based pros have to step outside the United States to make a big living from the sport, and only a few have the competitive pedigree to do so. Some of them gamble or teach to help make ends meet, but such earnings cannot always be depended upon.

Only one of pool's biggest paydays is in America. Not long ago, they were all in the United States. Only one of the world's ten best players is American, and no American has won a WPA World championship in a long time. Until American players re-establish their pedigree on the biggest stages overseas, the chance of having more major WPA events in America is pretty slight.

Bring a few big purse WPA events to America and a few more American pros can make a good living from competition. For now, though, earning prospects are poor for all but a few American-based pros, who simply haven't enough good paydays available on home soil.

Pool is a beautiful game that I'll love until the day I die. I'd recommend it as a hobby to anybody but would be hard pressed to encourage anybody to pursue it as a profession as a player.

Well, how many different avenues are there to say that one's profession is pool? when first presented, my first thought is that it's a very unique individual that could make a living playing pool. I could never be a pro player, I don;'t have that kind of talent, but maybe I could own a pool hall. If that were the case could I say that Pool was my profession? Then there are instructors, cue makers, maybe tour owners, billiard equipment manufacturers and sales, and so on. Maybe ...

sjm said:

Only a handful rely on pool competition for most of their income, perhaps less than 100 in the world.

At least in America, the real pros are the top instructors and the league operators, and in some cases, the promoters and poolroom proprietors. Those pros have a pretty good shot at recurring income that will ensure a decent living.

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That's where it all begins. I've gotten myself involved a little now and it seems pretty easy, aside from the time in addition to a desk job.

asianevil said:

Who out there knows someone that is using Pool as a profession?

Relying on this sport/recreational hobby 75% or more for their main income?

I know everyone has a different standard of living but at what point does one become delusional that they can survive doing this? The heyday's of the 70' and 80's are over, now I can't even imagine that the top 5 pros can survive with all the traveling costs that are involved. How about health insurance (let's leave Obamacare out of this for now)?

I'm baffled at who would make such a decision to put aside a paying gig for being broke.

Comments/Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I have not worked in 4 years. I play pool everyday and i live a good life. I have health insurance, a new car , single home, and i eat great everyday. The key is being selective and never letting anyone know your true speed, this way your never in a bad game and you book winners. now im not saying i never lose , but my winning percentage over the past 4 years is about 85% and i would not go back to work ever. so this life works for me.

asianevil said:

Who out there knows someone that is using Pool as a profession?

Relying on this sport/recreational hobby 75% or more for their main income?

I know everyone has a different standard of living but at what point does one become delusional that they can survive doing this? The heyday's of the 70' and 80's are over, now I can't even imagine that the top 5 pros can survive with all the traveling costs that are involved. How about health insurance (let's leave Obamacare out of this for now)?

I'm baffled at who would make such a decision to put aside a paying gig for being broke.

Comments/Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I know several pros who are quite comfortable and happy in their life as pros with all of their income derived from tournament winnings, endorsements, exhibitions and instruction.

All of them wish of course that there was more prize money and more events closer to home but they make do anyway.

Scott Lee said:

Exactly...making a living playing is a tough road to hoe (no matter who you are, how well you play, or where you play). Working steady as an entertainer is much less so...and there's plenty of work. I see Florian as the exception to the rule. Few in the world possess his skills at masse', and none, including himself, who believe he could make a living as professional tournament player. Florian's new association with the APA will reward him handsomely over the next several years. I agree with your assessment of his "marketing".


Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

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Scott,

it is either a tough row to hoe or a tough road to ho.

interesting . . .

Igetthecash said:

I have not worked in 4 years. I play pool everyday and i live a good life. I have health insurance, a new car , single home, and i eat great everyday. The key is being selective and never letting anyone know your true speed, this way your never in a bad game and you book winners. now im not saying i never lose , but my winning percentage over the past 4 years is about 85% and i would not go back to work ever. so this life works for me.

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Thirty-five years or so ago I made a living at pool when I needed to, a very nice middle class living. I did it hiding my speed and clubbing baby seals. I loved competition but seldom was I competing on a pool table. I spent about six months carefully working out how much I could win without losing too many customers. This included losing early and late and winning in the middle of sessions as well as making enough noise about my losses that everyone in the place was aware of them. I found I could win 85% of the money I bet, 70% when I considered the 15% I paid out on my losses. Seems like not much has really changed!

Hu

ShootingArts said:

Thirty-five years or so ago I made a living at pool when I needed to, a very nice middle class living. I did it hiding my speed and clubbing baby seals. I loved competition but seldom was I competing on a pool table. I spent about six months carefully working out how much I could win without losing too many customers. This included losing early and late and winning in the middle of sessions as well as making enough noise about my losses that everyone in the place was aware of them. I found I could win 85% of the money I bet, 70% when I considered the 15% I paid out on my losses. Seems like not much has really changed!

Hu

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That is basically excactlly how i do it, and it works for me.

asianevil said:

Who out there knows someone that is using Pool as a profession?

Relying on this sport/recreational hobby 75% or more for their main income?

I know everyone has a different standard of living but at what point does one become delusional that they can survive doing this? The heyday's of the 70' and 80's are over, now I can't even imagine that the top 5 pros can survive with all the traveling costs that are involved. How about health insurance (let's leave Obamacare out of this for now)?

I'm baffled at who would make such a decision to put aside a paying gig for being broke.

Comments/Thoughts?

Click to expand...

If you are good and a pool player why not? You live a pretty long life and there is time to do many different things. Playing pool is all I did for quite a few years and I made money.

I stayed within the sport and owned two pool rooms and to some degree I am still involved in the sport. I would no take it on myself to tell someone what to do or not to do.

In fact someone here reading this with a job has no idea what the future has for them. That job may be gone next week. We all go through a number of jobs in our lives and have up's and downs. If someone wants to be a fishing guide or write children's books or play music, or be a pool player let them do it. Kind of important to make our lives interesting.

I don't know if I ever told this story but I had an uncle who drove a bus in NJ. 35 years he drove that bus, in fact he drove it an extra 5 years just to get a little better pension. When he retired the first thing he and my aunt did was go on a trip to the worlds fair in Canada. I believe it was 1967. He and my aunt were killed in a car accident on the way there, not his fault.

That is what he got for 35 years at a job he hated. I was at the pool room and my father showed up and told me I had to come home. Once outside he told me what had happened.

I was actually close to my uncle and they would come down and stay with us every year, my father owned a small hotel and it didn't cost them a dime to have a nice Florida vacation. We would take the boat out or lay on the beach
he loved it here. All he ever talked about was retiring down here, but little did he know, it was never going to happen.

That one event I think shaped me I guess for the rest of my life. I have never done anything I didn't want to do, at least not for money. I can honestly say, I have been fairly successful at most everything I have done.

macguy said:

If you are good and a pool player why not? You live a pretty long life and there is time to do many different things. Playing pool is all I did for quite a few years and I made money.

I stayed within the sport and owned two pool rooms and to some degree I am still involved in the sport. I would no take it on myself to tell someone what to do or not to do.

In fact someone here reading this with a job has no idea what the future has for them. That job may be gone next week. We all go through a number of jobs in our lives and have up's and downs. If someone wants to be a fishing guide or write children's books or play music, or be a pool player let them do it. Kind of important to make our lives interesting.

I don't know if I ever told this story but I had an uncle who drove a bus in NJ. 35 years he drove that bus, in fact he drove it an extra 5 years just to get a little better pension. When he retired the first thing he and my aunt did was go on a trip to the worlds fair in Canada. I believe it was 1967. He and my aunt were killed in a car accident on the way there, not his fault.

That is what he got for 35 years at a job he hated. I was at the pool room and my father showed up and told me I had to come home. Once outside he told me what had happened.

I was actually close to my uncle and they would come down and stay with us every year, my father owned a small hotel and it didn't cost them a dime to have a nice Florida vacation. We would take the boat out or lay on the beach
he loved it here. All he ever talked about was retiring down here, but little did he know, it was never going to happen.

That one event I think shaped I guess for the rest of my life. I have never done anything I didn't want to do, at least not for money. I can honestly say, I have been fairly successful at most everything I have done.

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:thumbup:.................................

ShootingArts said:

Thirty-five years or so ago I made a living at pool when I needed to, a very nice middle class living. I did it hiding my speed and clubbing baby seals. I loved competition but seldom was I competing on a pool table. I spent about six months carefully working out how much I could win without losing too many customers. This included losing early and late and winning in the middle of sessions as well as making enough noise about my losses that everyone in the place was aware of them. I found I could win 85% of the money I bet, 70% when I considered the 15% I paid out on my losses. Seems like not much has really changed!

Hu

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you guys must play real good. you wanna play some. LOL