Split Hit

GoldCrown

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
9 BALL. I play in a senior league. Is a split hit a bad hit? I say so. Others say it is not. If the lowest ball on table must be hit first how is a split hit a good hit?
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I agree, simutaneous is not the same as first.

It is kind of like the saying in baseball, 'a tie goes to the runner'. There is no such rule & in fact, believe it or not. the rule book says in the case of a tie the batter bats over. Now that will ever happen as no umpire has ever had the courage to call a tie. So... in umpire school they my preach, 'a tie goes to the runner'. But it's not the rule says....

They are always changing the rules to prevent disputes & fights. That is partly why I stopped & will never play APA again, unless my chidren ask me to play in one with them. I hope they don't ask, I might even back out if they do ask. No offense meant to anyone playing APA. It may be fine for you & once was for me as well.

Regards,
 

measureman

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have always played and heard that a split hit is a good hit.
With that said if I'm playing a game that counts i always ask another player to watch.And I always explain to my opponent and the observer exactly how I'm going to shoot the shot. Spin-draw-follow-whatever.
 

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I remember reading a Bob Jewitt article on this recently, it was on www. sfbilliards.com. Without going into all the technical background (proven with high speed video cameras), Bob established there is a near impossible likelihood of a perfect split hit. According to the article, you determine which ball gets hit first by the resultant carom path of the CB. Say the ball to be hit first in on the right, hitting the OB on the left would be a bad hit. If the CB caroms to left and back, it means the ball on the right was hit first. Vice versa for a bad hit. In the unlikely event the shooter is able to make a perfect split hit, the CB would come straight back down the path it is shot from.
 

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not exactly true. The rule in baseball is something to the effect that after a batter hits a ball, he is out if he or first base is tagged prior to the runner touching the base. That would mean a tie does in fact go to the runner since 1st base or the runner would not be tagged prior to the runner touching first base in the event of a tie.

I'm also confused with your interpretation of APA. The rules seem rather straight forward to me. More importantly, both players have to play the same rules. While I haven't played in APA that long, I'm unaware of any rule changes period in that time frame.

I agree, simutaneous is not the same as first.

It is kind of like the saying in baseball, 'a tie goes to the runner'. There is no such rule & in fact, believe it or not. the rule book says in the case of a tie the batter bats over. Now that will ever happen as no umpire has ever had the courage to call a tie. So... in umpire school they my preach, 'a tie goes to the runner'. But it's not the rule says....

They are always changing the rules to prevent disputes & fights. That is partly why I stopped & will never play APA again, unless my chidren ask me to play in one with them. I hope they don't ask, I might even back out if they do ask. No offense meant to anyone playing APA. It may be fine for you & once was for me as well.

Regards,
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have always played and heard that a split hit is a good hit.
With that said if I'm playing a game that counts i always ask another player to watch.And I always explain to my opponent and the observer exactly how I'm going to shoot the shot. Spin-draw-follow-whatever.
I agree.

Ask your opponent before hand. If they say a split hit is ok, fine. If not, oh well. Always get a pair of eyes looking closely at it. The majority of the time its hard to tell if it truly was a 50/50 hit or 45/55 either way so generally if I'm asked I will say yes.
 

KoolKat9Lives

Taught 'em all I know
Silver Member
If it's too close to call, experienced and reasonable people know the benefit goes to the shooter.
 
I can always retort:

"Yes, it appeared a split hit to you. But I have much better vision than you, and I was able to see that it hit this ball first. And, if you were empowered with the same vision as me, you would also agree."

And then where shoud the argument lead from this point?
 

Pidge

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I can always retort:

"Yes, it appeared a split hit to you. But I have much better vision than you, and I was able to see that it hit this ball first. And, if you were empowered with the same vision as me, you would also agree."

And then where shoud the argument lead from this point?
Yo momma jokes.
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Usually in fair play without a ref, the benefit will go to the shooter.
If you can't call it bad, then it is good.

It is up to your opponent to see the position of the balls and call a ref or someone to watch the shot. It rarely does any good for either to argue the shot after it is made.

Splits are hard to see. But, an experienced ref will know which ball was hit first by which direction the cue ball goes after striking the ball.

The cue ball will react differently when splitting 2 frozen balls than it will by splitting 2 balls that are somewhere approx a chalk width or less apart. You can set a couple of balls up in different positions next time you are practicing and see the difference.
This is why a ref will study the lay of the balls before hand so it will make his call easier. After the shot, the ref will often take a few seconds again to study the balls.

If a reasonable amount of weight is used to play the ball, then it can be a fairly easy call. However, I have had guys shoot the cue ball at 30 mph just to screw with you and make it harder if not impossible to judge. Just to be dicks about it. Then, its up to you, you can call a foul on him for dick head purposes. Just kidding.

The Dr. has some great set up shots in the Ref Quiz on his site to give you a good idea of how to ref these shots if you are ever asked.
 
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TSW

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't believe the rules of 9-ball contemplate a split hit. As nobcitypool said, the odds of a literal split hit are incredibly slim.

The WPA rules simply state "The first object ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must be the lowest-numbered ball remaining on the table."

http://wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=117&pagetype=rules

IIRC, the rules of baseball also don't contemplate a "tie" on the basepaths.
 
Maybe when you become an adult you will be less adversarial and a little bit humble...

...maybe.

dld

So your implication is that all pool players have equal vision? You would be willing to deny that one player may be able to distinguish a good hit better than another?
 

cuesblues

cue accumulator
Silver Member
I always thought that a "split" was hillbilly bar pool playing for beers, where they say "I'm gonna split em," and if either ball goes it counts.
 

Jimmy Reid

US Open 9 Ball Champion
There is no such thing as a Split Hit. Watch the cueball..if the cueball goes to the right, after the shot, that means that it hit the ball on the left first. If it goes to the left after the shot, it hit the ball on the right first.
Best of Luck !
 

ENGLISH!

Banned
Silver Member
I don't believe the rules of 9-ball contemplate a split hit. As nobcitypool said, the odds of a literal split hit are incredibly slim.

The WPA rules simply state "The first object ball contacted by the cue ball on each shot must be the lowest-numbered ball remaining on the table."

http://wpa-pool.com/web/index.asp?id=117&pagetype=rules

IIRC, the rules of baseball also don't contemplate a "tie" on the basepaths.[/
QUOTE]

TWS,

Actaully you are correct. I 'mis-spoke' earlier. It is not the rule book that contemplates a tie but it eludes to one. I will be paraphrasing:

1. to be safe the runner must contact the base before being tagged by the ball or a player is in pocession of the ball and in contact with the base (forced out)

2. to get a runner out he must be tagged with the ball or a defensive player must be in pocession of the ball & in contact with the base before the runner contacts the base (forced out)

The rule book makes no mention of a tie.

It was the director of an umpire school that told me in a true tie, if it were ever called, based on the rules, the batter would bat over as he is neither safe nor out.

As I said that will never happen as the umpire is going to make a call & will never say it was a tie.

Regards,
 
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Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
From the WSR regulations:

26. Split Hits
If the cue ball strikes a legal object ball and a non-legal object ball at approximately the same instant, and it cannot be determined which ball was hit first, it will be assumed that the legal target was struck first.

The regulations often fill in the details of how rules are to be applied, so you need to read them as well. See: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_regulations
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
From the WSR regulations:

26. Split Hits
If the cue ball strikes a legal object ball and a non-legal object ball at approximately the same instant, and it cannot be determined which ball was hit first, it will be assumed that the legal target was struck first.

The regulations often fill in the details of how rules are to be applied, so you need to read them as well. See: http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_regulations
Well, sure - anybody can look up the rule. Where's the challenge in that? Real men argue about it.

pj
chgo
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
no such thing as a split hit.
It's either good or bad

Well, maybe, but there are some cases where it is impossible to tell whether it was good or bad. What do you think the referee should do if he cannot determine which ball was struck first?
 
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