500,000 Breaks - A Half Million

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is what 500,000 racks of Eight, Nine, and Ten-Ball look like. There are between 10 and 20 racks per score sheet. It took two employees and a ladder to prop up this colossal stack. Every last break was executed under the “No Conflict Rules” (shoot what you break). The players recorded their performance on every break. 95% of this was casual play where pool time was paid. The remainders are score sheets from tournaments. And yes, there are score sheets from 5 current US Open players. This does not count the thousands of breaks done in our leagues.

My point: The rules are acceptable. They work and the picture is my proof.

The rules do exactly what they were designed to do: 1) end the racking and breaking problems, 2) give advantage to the better player, 3) speed up play 4) make the matches more exciting. There is no need for a neutral racker, a special racking gadget, or anyone to check the rack. It is so easy. The pool experience and competition becomes better for all players at all levels.

The problems that have plagued racking and breaking for decades will continue until our sport is rid of the ball-on the-break. It takes a ton of skill to control the cue-ball, control the 1-ball, get a good spread, and get a shot. That is good enough.

I purchased the live streaming for my customers this week. We watched a premier match last night, as I am sure many did. The new rules were supposed to be some kind of fix. They are not. I watched two of the best players in the world “cheat the rack” over and over (svb & orc). This is so very destructive. I am disgusted, ashamed, and embarrassed. Some of these matches are won by what goes on before the balls are even broke. Is this what my crop of players is supposed to emulate? Should I even be showing this?

I know this has gotten repetitious and old but I will continue to do what I do and encourage others to do the same. It is good for our sport.
 

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spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is what 500,000 racks of Eight, Nine, and Ten-Ball look like. There are between 10 and 20 racks per score sheet. It took two employees and a ladder to prop up this colossal stack. Every last break was executed under the “No Conflict Rules” (shoot what you break). The players recorded their performance on every break. 95% of this was casual play where pool time was paid. The remainders are score sheets from tournaments. And yes, there are score sheets from 5 current US Open players. This does not count the thousands of breaks done in our leagues.

nice picture. That is not a lot of space it takes up. i expected it to fill a room LOL
Question: Why not digitise the scores by introducing score sheet app? Scores can then be in database and can run stats of players and use as feedback for their improvement Just saying :grin:
 

rookiepsu

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If they were to stack it on the floor instead of a pool table, they wouldn't need a stepladder. Trickery.
 

ceebee

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Shoot what you break".... That's what they are doing today with the slow break & pattern racking.

"Shoot what you break", will really become a pattern play, controlled break shot. The lesser player won't have a chance.

You folks can play the way you want... it's a free country.
 

Jaden

"no buds chill"
Silver Member
I like the keep playing on a legal break rules...

What I don't like is you disparaging two players, Shane and Dennis, without any knowledge that they are really doing anything wrong in order to promote your method...

Jaden
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This is what 500,000 racks of Eight, Nine, and Ten-Ball look like. There are between 10 and 20 racks per score sheet. It took two employees and a ladder to prop up this colossal stack. Every last break was executed under the “No Conflict Rules” (shoot what you break). The players recorded their performance on every break. 95% of this was casual play where pool time was paid. The remainders are score sheets from tournaments. And yes, there are score sheets from 5 current US Open players. This does not count the thousands of breaks done in our leagues.

My point: The rules are acceptable. They work and the picture is my proof.

The rules do exactly what they were designed to do: 1) end the racking and breaking problems, 2) give advantage to the better player, 3) speed up play 4) make the matches more exciting. There is no need for a neutral racker, a special racking gadget, or anyone to check the rack. It is so easy. The pool experience and competition becomes better for all players at all levels.

The problems that have plagued racking and breaking for decades will continue until our sport is rid of the ball-on the-break. It takes a ton of skill to control the cue-ball, control the 1-ball, get a good spread, and get a shot. That is good enough.

I purchased the live streaming for my customers this week. We watched a premier match last night, as I am sure many did. The new rules were supposed to be some kind of fix. They are not. I watched two of the best players in the world “cheat the rack” over and over (svb & orc). This is so very destructive. I am disgusted, ashamed, and embarrassed. Some of these matches are won by what goes on before the balls are even broke. Is this what my crop of players is supposed to emulate? Should I even be showing this?

I know this has gotten repetitious and old but I will continue to do what I do and encourage others to do the same. It is good for our sport.


No disrespect, sir. did you watch Shane and Dennis today? Particularly Shane, amazing break results with rack being inspected by opponent and ref.
Your post seems to be definitive in labeling these world class players as cheaters. You are very wrong on that point, and today is proof of that.

And yes, your crop of players should watch Shane and emulate everything he does, INCLUDING practice 7 days a week and for five hours straight on one of those days just the rack and break.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Paul, you and I sometimes find ourselves on different sides of the racking debate and that's fine.

Just want you to know that I admire you for the passion you show to find the best solution to the on-table problems our game faces. I think that, although we sometimes think differently, we ultimately want the same thing for our sport and that is a fair, level playing field for competition.

I think it's great that you bought the US Open stream to show to a group. Keep doing what you're doing, because you and others like you will help to move our sport forward.

Hope to meet you at some point on the tournament trail.

Yours, Stu
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
While we're plugging racking solutions, here's mine:

In this example I'm breaking and you're my opponent.

I rack the balls in any pattern I want. However, before I lift the triangle you can require that I exchange the position of any two balls (except the 1-ball and 9-ball of course). You tell me "Exchange the position of the 8-ball and 2-ball."

I exchange the balls' positions, tighten up the rack and break.

The theory is that you can destroy any pattern by exchanging the position of just two balls. Try it and you'll see that it works. The breaker still gets to make sure he's got a tight rack and his opponent gets to make sure that it's not an easy pattern set-up.

Works the same for 10-ball. I don't play a lot of 8-ball so I don't know if the theory holds true there.
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What's disgusting Paul, is you calling two of the best players in the world cheaters just to further your agenda when you have no idea of what the rack's actually looked like.:frown:
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Just want you to know that I admire you for the passion you show to find the best solution to the on-table problems our game faces.

Hope to meet you at some point on the tournament trail.

Yours, Stu

Thank you Stu. I have tried hundreds of different ideas to promote the game and ultimately my business. You know pool is optional. No one has to play it. In the big scheme of things, pool is just not very important. I never forget, first and foremost, we are doing recreation and there are tons of options and ways for people to have fun. That being said, if we want to survive today, what we have has got to be good, very very good. When there is a problem, fix it simply and fast and move on. I did just that.

Problem solved.
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While we're plugging racking solutions, here's mine:

In this example I'm breaking and you're my opponent.

I rack the balls in any pattern I want. However, before I lift the triangle you can require that I exchange the position of any two balls (except the 1-ball and 9-ball of course). You tell me "Exchange the position of the 8-ball and 2-ball."

I exchange the balls' positions, tighten up the rack and break.

The theory is that you can destroy any pattern by exchanging the position of just two balls. Try it and you'll see that it works. The breaker still gets to make sure he's got a tight rack and his opponent gets to make sure that it's not an easy pattern set-up.

Works the same for 10-ball. I don't play a lot of 8-ball so I don't know if the theory holds true there.

Run a tournament and try it out. See how much time it takes. See how the players react. See if the players can come up with a way to beat it.

American Rotation and Bonus Ball are the newest games on the books. The authors saw the light: Breaker does not have to make a ball on the break in order to stay at the table.
 

The Renfro

Outsville.com
Silver Member
Run a tournament and try it out. See how much time it takes. See how the players react. See if the players can come up with a way to beat it.

American Rotation and Bonus Ball are the newest games on the books. The authors saw the light: Breaker does not have to make a ball on the break in order to stay at the table.

Please keep Joe's League out of your ammunition pile where it doesn't belong.. The Ball in hand after the break was to speed up play and avoid early safety battles which would be the norm otherwise......

Chris
 

bdorman

Dead money
Silver Member
Run a tournament and try it out. See how much time it takes. See how the players react. See if the players can come up with a way to beat it.

I've only used it in small (16-24 players) tournaments, but it's been well received. Once players get the hang of it, it goes very quickly. What's been interesting is the number of opponents who say "the rack is okay; leave it as is" because the breaker has tried to pattern the rack in a way to invite the opponent to make a change...but the opponent figures that out and says "keep the way it is." It becomes apparent pretty quickly that trying to beat it is like chasing your own tail.

But the most important element is that both players think it's fair. No more arguments.

American Rotation and Bonus Ball are the newest games on the books. The authors saw the light: Breaker does not have to make a ball on the break in order to stay at the table.

One of my objectives was to change the game as little as possible. I'm a minimalist. A traditional break and run has three basic requirements: 1) get a good spread of the balls, 2) have a shot on the one-ball and 3) pocket a ball. If you take number 3 out of the equation, break and runs become easier and the game becomes more predictable.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... American Rotation and Bonus Ball are the newest games on the books. The authors saw the light: Breaker does not have to make a ball on the break in order to stay at the table.

But in Bonus Ball and American Rotation, the likelihood of running out the game from the break is not high. Doing so is difficult. Games are likely to involve quite a bit of safety and kicking play.

But how about with 9-ball, a much simpler game? Apparently you have lots of data from your use of the No Conflict Rules. And you've said that quite a few pro-level players have played in your events. Can you give us a few stats, such as break-and-run percentage and breaker-won-game percentage, for those pro-level players?

If your rules had been used in a tournament like the just-completed U.S. Open, what's your guess as to what the B&R percentage would have been (compared to the 20% we witnessed on streamed matches)? Do you think your rules would have made the matches more or less interesting (to the players, to hard-core fans, to relatively unsophisticated fans, to people who are not yet fans, to prospective advertisers, etc.)?

Your rules would certainly solve some of the current problems with 9-ball (and 10-ball), and the rules seem to be working well in the events at your pool room. But are they truly suitable for the highest levels of the sport?
 

Paul Schofield

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
But in Bonus Ball and American Rotation, the likelihood of running out the game from the break is not high. Doing so is difficult. Games are likely to involve quite a bit of safety and kicking play.

But how about with 9-ball, a much simpler game? Apparently you have lots of data from your use of the No Conflict Rules. And you've said that quite a few pro-level players have played in your events. Can you give us a few stats, such as break-and-run percentage and breaker-won-game percentage, for those pro-level players?

If your rules had been used in a tournament like the just-completed U.S. Open, what's your guess as to what the B&R percentage would have been (compared to the 20% we witnessed on streamed matches)? Do you think your rules would have made the matches more or less interesting (to the players, to hard-core fans, to relatively unsophisticated fans, to people who are not yet fans, to prospective advertisers, etc.)?

Your rules would certainly solve some of the current problems with 9-ball (and 10-ball), and the rules seem to be working well in the events at your pool room. But are they truly suitable for the highest levels of the sport?

The rules are suitable for all players at all levels. The Break & Run percentages that I will provide are not as high as you would expect for top players. And I say this because the stats I will provide are on standard bucket (as you would call) Gold Crowns. For all the discussions about too many break & runs and the game being too easy, I have a much different view: The top pro bowler strikes about 60% of the time. The top pro golfer pars or birdies about 60% of the time. I think our pro players should run more racks to make our game viable. That would mean larger pockets and more accommodating rules. Larger pockets and some rule adjustments (the reward for a good safe is too big) would incentivize our players to take more chances with riskier shots, making pool more fun and exciting to play and watch.

I will try to find time to look up and post stats tomorrow.
 
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