slabbing Ivory

rhinobywilhite

rhinobywilhite

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have piece of ivory about 5-5 1/2 in. in diameter and it has some curve to it.. Any suggestions for cutting into .125 slabs on a band saw? Should I build a jig to hold it steady for the cuts? Any suggestions for tpi on the bandsaw blade?

I want to do this with the least possible waste because this would be the last of my ivory. With the law currently so restrictive, I do not plan to seek more.
 
T

Thomas Wayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rhinobywilhite said:
I have piece of ivory about 5-5 1/2 in. in diameter and it has some curve to it.. Any suggestions for cutting into .125 slabs on a band saw? Should I build a jig to hold it steady for the cuts? Any suggestions for tpi on the bandsaw blade?

I want to do this with the least possible waste because this would be the last of my ivory. With the law currently so restrictive, I do not plan to seek more.
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I have a great method for slabbing Ivory that I've used for 30+ years. Reliable, controllable results with very little labor required - and minimal waste involved.

TW

 
JoeyInCali

JoeyInCali

Maker of Joey Bautista Cues
Silver Member
Thomas Wayne said:


I have a great method for slabbing Ivory that I've used for 30+ years. Reliable, controllable results with very little labor required - and minimal waste involved.

TW
Click to expand...

I can only guess Japanese mitre saw or metal band saw .
But, the very little labor required wild card is throwing me off a little.
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thomas Wayne said:


I have a great method for slabbing Ivory that I've used for 30+ years. Reliable, controllable results with very little labor required - and minimal waste involved.

TW
Click to expand...

And the suggestion was??????????????
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Getting the first cuts to where you have a good flat side to hold up to the fence is the most important part. I usually take my big tusk section and go over to my belt sander and place it on it and sand some flats on it so it either sets flat on my band saw table or sets flat up against the fence. Also make sure you have a fence tall enough to lay it completely up against it. What you lose sanding the starter flats will be easily made up for in cutting process.
I also cut into a 3/4 board laying down and then push my tusk section on top of that so the gap around the blade in the table doesn't catch the tusk. That makes things go much smoother.
 
rhinobywilhite

rhinobywilhite

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cueman said:
Getting the first cuts to where you have a good flat side to hold up to the fence is the most important part. I usually take my big tusk section and go over to my belt sander and place it on it and sand some flats on it so it either sets flat on my band saw table or sets flat up against the fence. Also make sure you have a fence tall enough to lay it completely up against it. What you lose sanding the starter flats will be easily made up for in cutting process.
I also cut into a 3/4 board laying down and then push my tusk section on top of that so the gap around the blade in the table doesn't catch the tusk. That makes things go much smoother.
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Chris, What tpi on your band saw blade and its width, please.
 
T

Thomas Wayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
rhinobywilhite said:
Would you be willing to share, Mr. Wayne?
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Well actually, I started to write a detailed instruction piece about the subject, but three or four paragraphs into it I suddenly remembered the last time I tried to offer some hard-earned advice. It seems AZB's decade-or-less expert "Youtube cuemakers" all know so much more about cuemaking than I do that they line up to explain why I'm wrong. So I guess I've finally realized there's no upside to wasting my time casting pearls before swine.

But I did enjoy mentioning that there is an excellent process for slabbing ivory, and I know what it is.

TW
(I can't, in good conscience, take credit for the "YouTube cuemakers" moniker - that is a 100% Jim Stadum witticism.)
 
LGSM3

LGSM3

Jake<built cues for fun
Silver Member
rhinobywilhite said:
It is solid.
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I would first observe the crack if there is one and try grind a flat as close as parallel as possible to the crack....then go to chopping it up like cueman said on bandsaw. I prefer a wood blade and a pretty stout feed rate as the ivory gets pretty hot.
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
rhinobywilhite said:
Chris, What tpi on your band saw blade and its width, please.
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I use a 3/4 inch 6 tooth. I found the finer teeth gum up when cutting ivory. I also tried a 3 tooth per inch carbide blade and was not happy with it. It wanted to walk around and not cut straight.
 
cueman

cueman

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
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Thomas Wayne said:



Well actually, I started to write a detailed instruction piece about the subject, but three or four paragraphs into it I suddenly remembered the last time I tried to offer some hard-earned advice. It seems AZB's decade-or-less expert "Youtube cuemakers" all know so much more about cuemaking than I do that they line up to explain why I'm wrong. So I guess I've finally realized there's no upside to wasting my time casting pearls before swine.

But I did enjoy mentioning that there is an excellent process for slabbing ivory, and I know what it is.

TW
(I can't, in good conscience, take credit for the "YouTube cuemakers" moniker - that is a 100% Jim Stadum witticism.)
Click to expand...

It is too bad the newer cuemakers have been able to cause you not to be a good contributing member of the forum. But as someone that has been at it a while and also managed to stay on AZ for a long time without a ban, I have read many of your posts and I can tell you brought bad blood here from another forum where (anything goes) so to speak. You and a handful of others are quick to run each other down. Also once you use a rude response to some of the newer cuemakers they have dug into you really hard.

I for one would love to see you display the patience of the fatherly figure of cuemaking that you are and you would probably get the respect you deserve. At least from the cuemakers on here that you have had no problems over on the other forums with. Those seem like hopeless cases and you should just put them on your ignore list and vice-versa.

By the way those who jump on your methods with a vengeance are breaking the rules and can be reported with a simple click of a button, instead of getting down in the mud with them. I hope you will reconsider and become a good contributing member of the AZ cuemakers forum.
 
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Chopdoc

Chopdoc

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Can we really bring down a bull with a mosquito?

I am reminded of the fable: The Mosquito and The Bull








Personally, as an observer, I always look forward to experienced opinions here. And I try to know the difference... :)
 
L

louieatienza

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thomas Wayne said:



Well actually, I started to write a detailed instruction piece about the subject, but three or four paragraphs into it I suddenly remembered the last time I tried to offer some hard-earned advice. It seems AZB's decade-or-less expert "Youtube cuemakers" all know so much more about cuemaking than I do that they line up to explain why I'm wrong. So I guess I've finally realized there's no upside to wasting my time casting pearls before swine.

But I did enjoy mentioning that there is an excellent process for slabbing ivory, and I know what it is.

TW
(I can't, in good conscience, take credit for the "YouTube cuemakers" moniker - that is a 100% Jim Stadum witticism.)
Click to expand...

I wonder why you would even let a couple weinies deter you from sharing your knowledge to the detriment of the many others (including myself) that are willing to learn. That's like someone from the Mets quitting baseball because some Yankees fans boo him in the subway series....
 
T

Thomas Wayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
KJ Cues said:
You all just got played by an oversized ego.
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Yeah. Like I went 35+ years - the first 20 being when there were ZERO sources for cuemaking tips or instructions - without developing and clever or efficient ways of doing anything.

The funniest thing to me is now, after there have been at least two manuscripts, many DVDs, and countless Youtube videos produced to "teach" cuemaking, the collective knowledge about the craft is actually considerably more limited (!) That's because all you experts (KJ, et al) have gotten your "knowledge" from the same limited pool - then you simply repeat it among yourselves and all nod at each other like it's a good thing. With VERY few exceptions, no newer cuemakers today even give a passing thought to incorporating / developing new methods or technology - why should then when DZ's latest YouTube video has already taught them everything they think they'll ever need to know?

Back in the 80's I had the priceless opportunity to become friends with Tad Kohara. Tad had been born in a machine shop (literally), and was already a successful manufacturer when he bought all of Harvey Martin's equipment and supplies (after Harvey died). The things he learned from studying Martin's tools could fill volumes, and Tad was clever enough to make that knowledge his launching pad for even greater tools and methods that Tad himself invented. And I was the lucky recipient of much of that because Tad was a very generous friend.

To this day there are secrets that came out of Tad's shop (with perhaps their roots in Martin's shop) that are very closely held by a handful of cuemakers. One in particular is SO valuable that if it became illegal to use I would quit the craft. I learned it from Jerry McWorter (who learned it from Tad). I assume Jerry shared it with Rick Chudy, and I shared it with Samsara. As far as I know, other than the four of us, it's unknown by any other cuemaker. In fact, we have a secret "code name" among us for the device so that we can discuss using it without ever risking accidentally revealing anything about it by a descriptive term.

Or maybe it's just a myth. Maybe there IS no secret device. Maybe there aren't several secret automated machines in North Dakota that make the most tedious cuemaking tasks not only easy, but also produce perfect results. Maybe there is no brilliant, efficient, high-yield way of slabbing ivory from a tusk section. Maybe ALL of what I've described is just pure fantasy.

The important thing is, you guys will never know. And the reason you’ll never know is because you exist in a knowledge bubble that is drawn from sources too far removed from the roots of this craft. When I started cuemaking there was no CNC available to small shops, and the NC/CNC machinery that existed on an industrial level was crude by today's standards. So I had to invent ways to use what WAS available to do what I needed to do. The same is true of every cuemaker from that era, and we all became the better for it. And all those guys know more about cuemaking than anyone today could learn from the current “shared knowledge pool”

Regarding “ego”, probably my favorite relevant quote is from baseball great Dizzy Dean, who said. “It ain’t bragging if you done it.” Well, I’m here to tell you we done it. So keep thinking they “got played”, KJ... and keep thinking you know everything – ‘cause I, for one, really enjoy watching the show.

TW

 
T

Thomas Wayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
cueman said:
It is too bad the newer cuemakers have been able to cause you not to be a good contributing member of the forum. But as someone that has been at it a while and also managed to stay on AZ for a long time without a ban, I have read many of your posts and I can tell you brought bad blood here from another forum where (anything goes) so to speak. You and a handful of others are quick to run each other down. Also once you use a rude response to some of the newer cuemakers they have dug into you really hard.

I for one would love to see you display the patience of the fatherly figure of cuemaking that you are and you would probably get the respect you deserve. At least from the cuemakers on here that you have had no problems over on the other forums with. Those seem like hopeless cases and you should just put them on your ignore list and vice-versa.

By the way those who jump on your methods with a vengeance are breaking the rules and can be reported with a simple click of a button, instead of getting down in the mud with them. I hope you will reconsider and become a good contributing member of the AZ cuemakers forum.
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Nice story, Chris, but the truth is too many latter-day cuemakers are so heavily invested in the things they've "taught" others that they can't stand the idea of being contradicted. I'll offer one simple example: Superglue "finishes".

What a TERRIBLE idea that is, but even as I post this there will be dozens (hundreds?) of cuemakers who'll be up in arms because THEY finish their cues with superglue.

Superglue is NOT a finish, and it will not stand the test of time. It's fairly easy, and does not require much investment in equipment, so all THE near-broke dreamers who think they'll get rich building cues someday embrace it, and no doubt will argue it's a GREAT finishing method. No, no it's not. It's a quick and dirty method and anyone can do it, but it's a very poor compromise and anyone who would use it is not producing great cues.

And I get the argument that automotive painting equipment and a spray booth are too expensive for the average guy, but superglue makes it possible for them to build cues too. Yeah... except Murray Tucker doesn't have expensive, high-tech spray equipment or a spray booth and he still uses automotive clearcoat. Rick Chudy doesn't have ANY spray equipment and HE still uses catalyzed clearcoat. Just two examples of good cuemakers who want to achieve the best results, and by thinking "outside the box" have been able to do so.

So, back on point, Chris - ANY tip or trick I post will undoubtedly be met by many arguments about why I'm "wrong", and I guess I'm finally tired of that crap. I can tell you more than a few OFG cuemakers will be glad, 'cause they've been asking me for years to quit sharing secrets.

TW
 
T

Thomas Wayne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
louieatienza said:
I wonder why you would even let a couple weinies deter you from sharing your knowledge to the detriment of the many others (including myself) that are willing to learn. That's like someone from the Mets quitting baseball because some Yankees fans boo him in the subway series....
Click to expand...

Uh, no, that's like someone from the Mets no longer teaching his own personal baseball techniques because a bunch of Little League coaches band together and loudly argue that his techniques aren't any good.

TW
 
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