Russian billiards players or those who have played: Questions for you...

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Although I've never had the chance to play on one of these tables, the game is intriguing.

Watching this match video, I have some questions to those who have played on this table and/or this cue sport:

https://youtu.be/D4Ndf2w5Pvs

1. It appears a point can be made by either a billiard or a regular old fashion pool shot whereas any ball can be the cue ball. Am I correct?

2. The start of the rack, they usually aim for a billiard right off the stack for a quick point. Any more points for getting the yellow ball in of the start?

3. It appears that they fire the balls hard at those tiny pockets, is this because the jaw of the pocket is so small that if it's off by a bit, if hit with super speed, you can force the ball through the rubber and still make the shot?

4. I noticed their cue shaft is shorter than a pool shaft. Obviously the balls are larger so more mass is needed (like a billiards cue?) What diameter are they usually playing with?

Thanks for any answers and I might have more questions a bit later.
 

Texas Carom Club

9ball did to billiards what hiphop did to america
Silver Member
I've often wondered too what are the rules
Seems ultra hard

Nice video, wonder why the place is empty
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
RP cues....................

Although I've never had the chance to play on one of these tables, the game is intriguing.

Watching this match video, I have some questions to those who have played on this table and/or this cue sport:

https://youtu.be/D4Ndf2w5Pvs

1. It appears a point can be made by either a billiard or a regular old fashion pool shot whereas any ball can be the cue ball. Am I correct?

2. The start of the rack, they usually aim for a billiard right off the stack for a quick point. Any more points for getting the yellow ball in of the start?

3. It appears that they fire the balls hard at those tiny pockets, is this because the jaw of the pocket is so small that if it's off by a bit, if hit with super speed, you can force the ball through the rubber and still make the shot?

4. I noticed their cue shaft is shorter than a pool shaft. Obviously the balls are larger so more mass is needed (like a billiards cue?) What diameter are they usually playing with?

Thanks for any answers and I might have more questions a bit later.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=141242 post #5.
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Staff member
Gold Member
Silver Member
I believe that there are several different games played on the Russian table. Without knowing which one is being played, it can be a little confusing.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Among all kinds of billiard games piramid is the most popular in ex Soviet Union's countries. Concerning piramid as a sport there are three different games and we have all kinds of tournaments to be held in these games. 1st game: let's call it Free piramid. In this game each time you come to the table you are free to choose which ball you use as a CB. Two other games let's call them Combined piramid and Dynamic piramid. Playing these games you have a CB as in pool which is differ in color (it's the only colored ball among 15 white). In all three games the goal is to have 8 balls to be pocketed to win the frame as in one pocket game. In all games you are allowed to pocket the OB like in pool or snooker or pocket the CB making a billiard. Each game has its own tactics founded on the rules of the game. For example in dynamic and combined piramid each time you pocket the CB you can take any OB from the table which counts for you and start with CB in hand but in combined piramid playing from the kitchen area and you are allowed to pocket an OB and the CB. In dynamic piramid you can start with the CB anywhere on the table but allowed to pocket only an OB. That is when it comes to the goal, rules if to be very short. Of course as in any other billiard games there are certain rules for an open shot, the shot to be correct (when it comes to safeties because there are a lot deffensive play especially in combined and dynamic piramid), penalties and so on.
When it comes to the match in this video the girls are playing free piramid and Diana Mironova is the most talented and successful player whith excellent technique I have ever seen. She's the one and only and she played in the final of WC Free piramid for women for the first time at the age of 12 years old. Now she's 21 and seven times the world champion. She is the great example of many things to follow.
Now let's come back to the questions.
1. I've already covered.
2. On the break you have to pocket the ball (any ball but of course it is easier to pocket the CB) or to have three object balls to hit the cushion or two balls hit the cushion and the third across the center line. The rules for the break shot were changed in order to make the game more offensive. I remember the times when they were different.
3. Yes the pockets are fairly small counting the balls are much bigger than in pool. The balls are 2.677" and weigh around 10,23oz. Corner pockets are around 2.95" sides are around 3.19". And the jaws are different so when you intend to pocket the ball which is closer to the cushions the pocket becomes so small you have to be a very good shooter in order to pocket it and yes better use some power when the size of the the pocket equals the ball's size. When it comes to pocketing the CB it's another story of course when you have to know and feel the speed, cut angle and english for each shot.
4.When it comes to the cues standard length is 63" weight around 23,8oz - 25oz. 12,7-13 mm at the tip and 28mm at the butt cap. The length of the shaft and how much at the joint depends on the construction of the cue. Most players prefer two pieces cues almost equal split but usually the shaft can be longer just a little. It is just more comfortable to travel with. But there are ones who prever 3/4 cues like in snooker or one piece cue. Three pieces cues also were fairly popular in the past. Concerning the construction, design and materials used and so on this game has its own story and history to be said. And that is a long but very interesting story. As in any other billiard game there are some very known cuemakers making the cues which are real pieces of art. And to say the truth when it comes to the cue building I've learned a lot by looking through the whole building process, construction used and so on in this game. It's not only very interesting but also helps me what could be done better building a pool cue. I remember the time when I've bought my second Prather cue Dan Prather was interested in construction used in piramid cues and exchanged his experience with one of the ukrainian cuemakers and my teacher Jorgen Sandman a good friend of him helped with this.
I hope my English is understandable enough.:)
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Among all kinds of billiard games piramid is the most popular in ex Soviet Union's countries. Concerning piramid as a sport there are three different games and we have all kinds of tournaments to be held in these games. 1st game: let's call it Free piramid. In this game each time you come to the table you are free to choose which ball you use as a CB. Two other games let's call them Combined piramid and Dynamic piramid. Playing these games you have a CB as in pool which is differ in color (it's the only colored ball among 15 white). In all three games the goal is to have 8 balls to be pocketed to win the frame as in one pocket game. In all games you are allowed to pocket the OB like in pool or snooker or pocket the CB making a billiard. Each game has its own tactics founded on the rules of the game. For example in dynamic and combined piramid each time you pocket the CB you can take any OB from the table which counts for you and start with CB in hand but in combined piramid playing from the kitchen area and you are allowed to pocket an OB and the CB. In dynamic piramid you can start with the CB anywhere on the table but allowed to pocket only an OB. That is when it comes to the goal, rules if to be very short. Of course as in any other billiard games there are certain rules for an open shot, the shot to be correct (when it comes to safeties because there are a lot deffensive play especially in combined and dynamic piramid), penalties and so on.
When it comes to the match in this video the girls are playing free piramid and Diana Mironova is the most talented and successful player whith excellent technique I have ever seen. She's the one and only and she played in the final of WC Free piramid for women for the first time at the age of 12 years old. Now she's 21 and seven times the world champion. She is the great example of many things to follow.
Now let's come back to the questions.
1. I've already covered.
2. On the break you have to pocket the ball (any ball but of course it is easier to pocket the CB) or to have three object balls to hit the cushion or two balls hit the cushion and the third across the center line. The rules for the break shot were changed in order to make the game more offensive. I remember the times when they were different.
3. Yes the pockets are fairly small counting the balls are much bigger than in pool. The balls are 2.677" and weigh around 10,23oz. Corner pockets are around 2.95" sides are around 3.19". And the jaws are different so when you intend to pocket the ball which is closer to the cushions the pocket becomes so small you have to be a very good shooter in order to pocket it and yes better use some power when the size of the the pocket equals the ball's size. When it comes to pocketing the CB it's another story of course when you have to know and feel the speed, cut angle and english for each shot.
4.When it comes to the cues standard length is 63" weight around 23,8oz - 25oz. 12,7-13 mm at the tip and 28mm at the butt cap. The length of the shaft and how much at the joint depends on the construction of the cue. Most players prefer two pieces cues almost equal split but usually the shaft can be longer just a little. It is just more comfortable to travel with. But there are ones who prever 3/4 cues like in snooker or one piece cue. Three pieces cues also were fairly popular in the past. Concerning the construction, design and materials used and so on this game has its own story and history to be said. And that is a long but very interesting story. As in any other billiard game there are some very known cuemakers making the cues which are real pieces of art. And to say the truth when it comes to the cue building I've learned a lot by looking through the whole building process, construction used and so on in this game. It's not only very interesting but also helps me what could be done better building a pool cue. I remember the time when I've bought my second Prather cue Dan Prather was interested in construction used in piramid cues and exchanged his experience with one of the ukrainian cuemakers and my teacher Jorgen Sandman a good friend of him helped with this.
I hope my English is understandable enough.:)

WOW! Дуже добре!
Thanks for giving out all the info right there. Green + to an excellent post.
Your English is excellent and I understood it all.
That Diana girl sure can play. Does she ever compete against the men? Hard to defeat someone who can hold the table for massive amounts of points.
Thanks for clearing up a lot of that for me. It will make viewing the matches that much better.
Дуже дякую!
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
WOW! Дуже добре!
Thanks for giving out all the info right there. Green + to an excellent post.
Your English is excellent and I understood it all.
That Diana girl sure can play. Does she ever compete against the men? Hard to defeat someone who can hold the table for massive amounts of points.
Thanks for clearing up a lot of that for me. It will make viewing the matches that much better.
Дуже дякую!

You are welcome too:thumbup:.
Concerning Diana competing the men I remember at least one but the biggest commercial event with the highest prize fund in the history of the game 400000 euros if I remember correct. There was a very strong field of players and Diana was the only girl and at the age of 16 or 17. She made it to the semis and lost to the winner of the event another young and rising star from Moldova. Fairly many big names were on her winning list over there.:wink:
Here is that semi-final https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ErTx-xBYTV0
 

Black-Balled

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Many of us remember stalev and his interest in pocket billiards. Any other guys there who can approach his skill at both pool and piramid?

And how about the Russian guys who are playing pool in the big tournaments? Do they play piramid at a high level too?

Thanks for sharing the info here,
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Many of us remember stalev and his interest in pocket billiards. Any other guys there who can approach his skill at both pool and piramid?

And how about the Russian guys who are playing pool in the big tournaments? Do they play piramid at a high level too?

Thanks for sharing the info here,
The "Siberian express" Ruslan Chinahov is fairly good in piramid too. I could remember him a 13-14 years old kid winning his first golds on European Pool championships for youth which was held in Kiev back then. As far as I heard his story when he started to learn the game of billiards in his home town he started with piramid. He's still quite a strong piramid player and used to play against top piramid players comercial matches.
Here in Ukraine we have a few very talented players who are very good in both pool and piramid. The best examples are Artem Koshovyi who is still our best pool player in my opinion. He's a friend of mine and we have both the same teacher and coach and used to practice in one place when he was a kid learning the game growing up and becoming better and better. He used to play in many pool tournaments in Russia when he was a jounior winning a lot of them back then. I remember him being very young may be 14 years old or so when he won his match against Evgenyi Stalev on one of the Russian cups in 9-ball back then. It was his first match against him and he was fearless. He has a fairly long list of glorious matches and wins against very famous players. His best achievements are gold medal in EC for youth, silver and bronzes in EC men and bronze in WC for youth. And last year in Doha during WC 9-ball he had fairly good chances to go further in KO stage facing Albin in quarters but he lost in hill-hill thriller against Jason Shaw leading in the match 9-3.
Five or six years ago Artem being the absolute best pool player in Ukraine also participated in the "national tournament of champions" which is held every year at the end of the year. To participate in this tournament only champions of any piramid discipline of the year are invited. He is mostly a pool player but such a talent he is fairly good in piramid but used to play it more for fun because he does not like it near as much as pool.
Another great example of being fairly universal (overall) player in my country is Evgenyi Novosad who started to learn the game of billiards being a kid playing both piramid and pool. Then concentrated on pool mostly for the years he was growing up as a player. He also had a gold medal for our country in 9-ball EC for youth when he was 15 years old. When he was twenty years old and did not have enough opportunities to play pool internationally on high level he switched to piramid and fairly soon had a success in this game too finally winning the WC 2014 in combined piramid https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aAgnfBFCSjU.
 
Last edited:

Nittio

New member
A couple of comments and questions from a novice pyramid player!

The cue action a lot of these players have is amazing! It's a beautiful game and once you get a hang of the heavy balls and tight pockets it is not quite as hard as it looks. Caroming the cue ball with a fast paced top spin with a touch of inside is very rewarding. What do you guys call it? Svayak? Is there a translation for it?

Free pyramid (all balls used as the cue ball) can be a bit one-dimensional at first as it relies heavily on potting and safety play usually comes in only when there's only a couple balls left at the table. One attraction to the game is that there is really nowhere to hide and your containing safety play needs to be in order. Is free pyramid the preferred game by the occasional player?

Is there any explanation to why the cues are so thin and often on the looser side? I've noticed that my cue doesn't deflect much, is there a theory behind this? Here in Finland we play more Kaisa, a game played with the same heavy balls, small pockets and big tables (usually 10 ft), but a lot if players prefer a stiffer cue with a thicker butt.
 

S.Vaskovskyi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
A couple of comments and questions from a novice pyramid player!

The cue action a lot of these players have is amazing! It's a beautiful game and once you get a hang of the heavy balls and tight pockets it is not quite as hard as it looks. Caroming the cue ball with a fast paced top spin with a touch of inside is very rewarding. What do you guys call it? Svayak? Is there a translation for it?

Free pyramid (all balls used as the cue ball) can be a bit one-dimensional at first as it relies heavily on potting and safety play usually comes in only when there's only a couple balls left at the table. One attraction to the game is that there is really nowhere to hide and your containing safety play needs to be in order. Is free pyramid the preferred game by the occasional player?

Is there any explanation to why the cues are so thin and often on the looser side? I've noticed that my cue doesn't deflect much, is there a theory behind this? Here in Finland we play more Kaisa, a game played with the same heavy balls, small pockets and big tables (usually 10 ft), but a lot if players prefer a stiffer cue with a thicker butt.

There is a tendency in piramid especially noticable in free piramid more and more difficult to compete with some "young guns". The year 2017 was a year of a 16 years old Joseph Abramov who won several biggest tournaments during a year.
Most piramid pros don't play money matches in free piramid. Most money matches are played in Combined piramid playing by the old rules. This game is called Moscowskaya piramid or Moscowca to be short. Money players prefer to play Moscowca a shorter race than Free piramid a longer race. In free piramid the better your technique is and the better you are in pocketing balls the better your chances to win because positional play is much easier than in games with CB where knowledge and experience have more weight on the scales.
Yes, when you caroming a CB in the pocket we call it "svoyak". In order to understant why you have to understand the language).
And you asked a very good question about the cues being so thin in this game. As I understood the game a good cuemaker tries to find the " golden middle" where his cues being good enough for pocketing objects balls as in any billiard game and pocketing a CB making "svoyak". And of course there is the difference in the construction and woods behind it. The best players for piramid I have tried were fairly stiff without being thick. They were built out of extremely stiff and hard woods and in such a fashion with regards to the construction... and yes, they had such a taper. That is if to be very very short and my experience but there are a lot of things and detailes concerning the differences in the construction of piramid cues to be mentioned and why they are there...
 
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