How do you Aim Off to compensate for sidespin

Ekojasiloop

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
First off, tens of thousands of students lololol.
And how many of "your" students have BECOME pro players???

He is smarter than I give him credit for, he's knows when he's on the losing end of an argument, and one that could affect his income too.

Teaching is overrated. I know players can be helped by teachers, but it's not nearly to the extent people think. Instructors try to make everyone feel they NEED teaching to become better. That there is some "knowledge" they have that others don't. The things I cringe when I hear are "you're reinforcing bad habits as you practice (omg there could not be a more loaded line), or the things we've heard in this thread. They are just not true. It's like learning a language as a kid: sure, every now and then you'll get corrected by your mom, "no, you didn't win him!". And that helps. But, the vast majority of the accumulated knowledge and ability to speak comes from the child being immersed 15 hours a day and inquisitive about the language.

That's exactly how it is with pool. People learn to win and improve as a pool player by being immersed in both practice and serious competition. Sure, they can get a little tidbit here or there that may help them, but in the grand scheme of things, the knowledge passed from one person to another is not even worth considering. This is why we don't see monsters simply emerge from basements one day, unknown to the world. It's because the skill and learning are all only through actual battle and intense practice. The best example that lets us see the truth clear as day is the Philippines. Those guys are monsters because they're playing each other competitively under very stressful, pressure packed conditions, and because they frankly got nothing else to do but practice and play pool.

You don't learn how to win under extreme pressure (which is the definition improvement I think) by talking to people, you do it by being there, time and time again. You do it yourself. There's no teaching the stuff you need to know when you're in there.

Look at it this way: do a poll and ask how many top instructors teach aiming systems. It will be at or near 100%. Do another poll of top players and ask how many aim balls with a system alone. There will be a huge disparity between the percentage of instructors pushing aiming systems, and the greatest players. The answer as to why is obvious... one subset has something to sell, the other doesn't. It's not a big mystery.

Good pool comes from being right in the middle of the highest pressure games, along with a steady dose of practice. The reason people think they get better when they get a lesson is obvious to me. I once got a new cue, and I swear I have never practiced so good in my life. Looking back on that, I realize the reason I played so well was not because the cue, or because I had come over some plateau, it was simply because there was something very new and unique in my hands (I had the same cue previous to this for about ten ears), and the balls were reacting differently, and it very much peaked my mind's interest. That's what happens to students too in my opinion. Something different is there to peak their mind's interest when they have a teacher next to them for the first time, and they play with a different passion, and may even practice more and harder. That's great, and that's what I think a really good teacher would try to stir up in his students, but, it's the actual student who made the strides. I'm not trying to take any credit away from instructors when it works, I just feel it has more to do with a player's interests being peaked than I do with any one piece of knowledge the instructor happened to pass on. It's never about actual knowledge, you've gotta find that yourself in the heat of battle, actual learning/improvement is more about a player's interest and passion being magnified.
 
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buckets

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Hardly anyone replied to this thread answering my questions. Maybe only Freddie and a few.

I seriously would like to know how you do it. Might help me see which method is more logical and why.

Not asking about aiming system nor which side of object ball to aim for compensation, but rather on how to aim off (the action). Thanks in advance.

calculate the net distortion based on your experience, and aim one way or the other depending on whether or not squirt or swerve will be the dominant effect
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
Hardly anyone replied to this thread answering my questions. Maybe only Freddie and a few.

I seriously would like to know how you do it. Might help me see which method is more logical and why.

Not asking about aiming system nor which side of object ball to aim for compensation, but rather on how to aim off (the action). Thanks in advance.

I think in Cornerman's post he said he was a long time BHE player. Since I wrote on the subject and have spent time working with the material and use several types of Side Spin techniques I'll try and answer it as if for myself.

The type of Side Spin compensation that I use comes from the stroke I feel I need and the cue ball position I feel I need. Witholding Scientific evidence that I do not have on this on some shots Regular side Spin vs. BHE you can get more or less cue ball travel due the side spin that you have to have a feel for.

I feel on certain shots depending on if I'm near another ball, over a ball or pinched I may choose Regular Side Spin with the bridge hand where ever it has to be or BHE. I personally do not pivot after in the set position with BHE. I just can't so I go into the shot looking at the contact point and set up everything in my stance around it regardless of the type of spin I use and avoid any extra movements.

I rarely use Fhe but also use it as well. Mostly for a very thin cut with slow speed and considerable distance, for me it works well.

There is also the type of stroke that a person develops after playing a long time that follow a path between these types. When you've used all of these methods, your stroke will develop and that will be your go to in most situations, but occasionally you will find a shot where you know when to pull the BHE or Fhe out of the bag and use it.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
That's exactly how it is with pool. People learn to win and improve as a pool player by being immersed in both practice and serious competition. Sure, they can get a little tidbit here or there that may help them, but in the grand scheme of things, the knowledge passed from one person to another is not even worth considering.
Don't you think a player can benefit from an instructor in other ways? I am looking forward to a lesson with Scott in the near future. I think I already play pretty strong, but if I could develop some better mechanics, consistency, PSR, maybe I can be even better! I don't want an instructor to tell me "use high inside English to get to the next ball...", I want someone to tell me, "hey dumbass, quit dropping your elbow when you shoot that shot", or "hey dumbass, focus on following through".

Everyone has a lot to learn about pool, and sometimes it seems that people are too concerned with the balls and not concerned enough with themselves. How could a proven instructor NOT be able to help you see things about your fundamentals that you cannot?
 

cleary

Honestly, I'm a liar.
Silver Member
I aim the edge of my shaft to the contact point for almost all shots, including when I use inside or outside english. It seems to work very well for me. I always struggled with inside english shots until I started doing this. Now, it's all the same.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
That's exactly how it is with pool. People learn to win and improve as a pool player by being immersed in both practice and serious competition. Sure, they can get a little tidbit here or there that may help them, but in the grand scheme of things, the knowledge passed from one person to another is not even worth considering.
Don't you think a player can benefit from an instructor in other ways? I am looking forward to a lesson with Scott in the near future. I think I already play pretty strong, but if I could develop some better mechanics, consistency, PSR, maybe I can be even better! I don't want an instructor to tell me "use high inside English to get to the next ball...", I want someone to tell me, "hey dumbass, quit dropping your elbow when you shoot that shot", or "hey dumbass, focus on following through".

Everyone has a lot to learn about pool, and sometimes it seems that people are too concerned with the balls and not concerned enough with themselves. How could a proven instructor NOT be able to help you see things about your fundamentals that you cannot?


easy-e, the mentality here seems to be that no instruction, no understanding, no analysis can help. You just shoot and learn over time.

Can you imagine if that's what coaches did in all sports? In golf, tennis, football, baseball, the coaches just say "get out there and play and your brain will learn what to do." No way. You learn technique. You do drill after drill cementing those techniques.

But somehow in pool you don't need that. Just get out there and gamble and you'll learn. It's ridiculous.
 

easy-e

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
easy-e, the mentality here seems to be that no instruction, no understanding, no analysis can help. You just shoot and learn over time.

Can you imagine if that's what coaches did in all sports? In golf, tennis, football, baseball, the coaches just say "get out there and play and your brain will learn what to do." No way. You learn technique. You do drill after drill cementing those techniques.

But somehow in pool you don't need that. Just get out there and gamble and you'll learn. It's ridiculous.

It blows my mind. I know we have all seen players become champions with no instructors, but that doesn't make instruction useless. I feel like I've hit a plateau, and I cannot wait to break down and rebuild.
 

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I aim the edge of my shaft to the contact point for almost all shots, including when I use inside or outside english. It seems to work very well for me. I always struggled with inside english shots until I started doing this. Now, it's all the same.

Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it brings a question to mind.

If you are cutting a ball to the left, the contact point on the object ball is on the right.

The contact point on the cue ball is on the left side of the ball.

If you are hitting the left side of the cue ball, how are you putting outside (right hand) English on it?

Are you aiming with the cue and then moving over a bit? Pivoting? Please explain.
 

Wybrook

A. Wheeler
Silver Member
I aim the edge of my shaft to the contact point for almost all shots, including when I use inside or outside english. It seems to work very well for me. I always struggled with inside english shots until I started doing this. Now, it's all the same.

This doesnt work..
I could show you on a table that you have learned to adjust every shot if you think "it works"...

But since we arent at a table, picture this:

Put a ball about 6 feet away (45 degree angle to the left corner pocket) and shoot it with left english.
If you hit it slowly with this english, you have to aim to the right of the eventual contact point as the CB will work its way left. (this isnt taking into account the incidental english or the spin induced throw either)
As you hit the CB harder with the same english, you will have to keep aiming further to the left until you eventually are basically aiming at the left side of the OB.

So, pointing your shaft at the contact point really only works for a particular distance, particular amount of spin and at an exact speed, using your shaft..?

Your way works for your but your system is really you adjusting off a baseline that isnt even close in half the shots you take.
 

OLD NO 9

AzB Gold Member
Silver Member
I assume you meant:

Different shaft, differen squirt (cue ball deflection).

Shouldn't you either be in a meeting or at the Carom Room? Make sure you introduce yourself, or have someone else introduce you to Dave Coles one of the nicest guys in the pool biz.
 

QuietStorm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
From an intermediate's perspective...

I don't like FHE/BHE, since it creates more movement while down on a shot. I'm of the school of thought that you should minimize your adjustments while down on the shot. Make the necessary adjustments for english and contact point while standing up.
 

His Boy Elroy

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In many instances, you have to aim off to compensate for sidespin.

In my scenario, you need to cut a half ball on the right hand side of the object ball for the object ball to go into the left hand corner pocket. Due to sidespin, you need to compensate by aiming to cut the ball thinner, let say somewhere between three eighth to one quarter ball.

My questions are:

1. Do you immediately aim at the approximate three eighth to one quarter ball as you place your bridge hand on the table, or
2. Do you look at the point of contact (which is not where you aim since it is point of contact to point of contact) and then shift it slightly to the right and focus on this new point of contact, and then stoop and aim at this new point of contact, or
3. Do you aim at the original point of contact, go down for the shot and then shift your bridge hand by moving it sideways (like crab) to the left and aiming slightly to the right of the object ball, or
4. As in s/no 3, but you pivot your bridge hand at your forefinger and rotate clockwise hence changing your aiming line.


When you watch the pro, you don't see them moving their bridge hand. In some junior world championships, I did see some younger players shifting their bridge hand to compensate for their sidespins.

How do you do it and what do you think is the best method when you have to compensate for sidespin?

For me, I use pivoting and not parallel aiming for my sidespin. I used to aim at the original point and then compensate by shifting my bridge hand (not sure whether I rotate or move sideways). I found it cumbersome and the end results are not ideal. Thereafter, I change to looking at a different point on the object ball from the actual contact point. That works well as long as the new contact point I am focusing on is still on the object ball. Sometimes, the contact point falls out of the object ball and that is when I have a real problem aiming off. Accuracy suffers.

Over the weekend, I tried another method and it works well. What I do is, I shift my "V" by moving my thumb. In the case scenario above, what I do is to move my thumb upwards. That inevitably shift the "V" to the left. Your true line of aim has changed and it is now pointing slightly to the right of the object ball from your original aim.
Could you clarify what you mean when you refer to " Compensating for sidespin." Do you in fact, mean that you are compensating for deflection....which is the side - effect of cue ball spin?
 

336Robin

Multiverse Operative
Silver Member
I don't like FHE/BHE, since it creates more movement while down on a shot. I'm of the school of thought that you should minimize your adjustments while down on the shot. Make the necessary adjustments for english and contact point while standing up.

I am of the same opinion. So I go into the shot with the correct bridge length selected with my tips of English selected and I aim for the correct contact knowing that my sidespin and stroke will send the cue ball dead straight ahead.

It works great!
 

PoolBum

Ace in the side.
Silver Member
How do you Aim Off to compensate for sidespin?

I compensate for deflection by feel.

How hard I hit the cueball, how far off the vertical center I hit the cueball, and how much distance there is between the cueball and the object ball are all factors.
 
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