Refinishing a Fellini case?

runscott · Aug 29, 2017

I recently purchased a worn medium brown smooth Fellini case, with the intent of stripping the finish and making it black. I would use the same technique I use to refurbish beat-up Hoppe Pro leather wraps.

The case has quite a few abrasions and had a lot of black marks and other markings on it, plus someone had tried a brown die on some of the abrasions, and it didn't match.

I cleaned it and used Lexol conditioner and it now looks pretty decent, but I still 'need' a black Fellini case. Would it be sacrilege to refinish it? I know there are a lot of Fellinis out there, many fancier than this one, but I'm still hesitant to mess with it. On the other hand, I don't want to pay 'nice condition black Fellini' price for another one.

Before pic:

PRED · Aug 29, 2017

That thing has seams and end cuts that will shrink during the drying of the dye. You will have to saturate the leather to get it black and that will cause the separation at the seams.

runscott · Aug 29, 2017

PRED said:
That thing has seams and end cuts that will shrink during the drying of the dye. You will have to saturate the leather to get it black and that will cause the separation at the seams.

Good point. It already has pretty bad separation at the seams. I wouldn't expect much additional separation, if any, and the black dye would better hide the separation than the current color. If it were currently seamless I wouldn't mess with it...and I wouldn't have been able to afford it to begin with.

Chopdoc · Aug 29, 2017

I was going to buy the case with the same intention.

Done well, it will look darn near new, and there would be no way to tell it was done.

I would condition it well.

It's a cool case. Take your time with it and it will turn out great without too much effort.

.

deanoc · Aug 29, 2017

i would either keep it the way it is or sell it

if you want black ,sell this one to me

i like this color
if theseems are not too seperated i would like the case

it is one of my favorites

all of my cases are about that color

i like black on a fellini just about as much and
i would buty a black one also

i would not mess with it if it were mine

runscott · Aug 29, 2017

I won't start any work until March 1 so plenty of time to think about it. By that time I may have found a black one.

ceebee · Aug 29, 2017

Me neither... resto is a path to being a Hero or a Zero...

cueaddicts · Aug 29, 2017

I dyed a maroon one black before and had no issues with seams shrinking. Turned out great really.

HawaiianEye · Aug 29, 2017

Is there anyway to somehow close the seams up on the back. Could the leather be loosened on each side of the seam and then stretched back together and glued back down?

I have an old brown one I got from Richard Black back in 1981 when he made me a new cue and shipped it to me in the Philippines. I think I paid him $40 for it.

TILT9 · Aug 29, 2017

Find a professional upholsterer who specializes in leather

first you have to break the glaze , then remove the tan dye to the natural leather ,
then saturate the leather until pliable , then stretch the leather case cover until seams are
even and tight , then adhesive in place , now the leather case cover is perfectly applied and
perfectly aligned and now you can dye the raw, opened, saturated leather black.
Or... just rip off the old crap tan leather , clean the PVC and install new leather in black.
Or... sell it as is to deanoc and get one in black for yourself.
(do you have a really good meat grinder?) :thumbup:

runscott · Aug 31, 2017

I do a good job refurbishing leather, so no need to farm out such work. My concern was more about destroying a piece of history. I do a lot of repair/restoration of antique items, and this is a question I always have to speculate about before I begin any work. Following is the thread where Jack Justis gave me advice ten years ago on leather restoration. I've always used the techniques and products he describes.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=53096

As an aside, I never messed with the case described in the above thread, as I decided that too much of the tooling would be lost.

Chopdoc · Aug 31, 2017

runscott said:
I do a good job refurbishing leather, so no need to farm out such work. My concern was more about destroying a piece of history. I do a lot of repair/restoration of antique items, and this is a question I always have to speculate about before I begin any work. Following is the thread where Jack Justis gave me advice ten years ago on leather restoration. I've always used the techniques and products he describes.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=53096

As an aside, I never messed with the case described in the above thread, as I decided that too much of the tooling would be lost.

IMHO the price on that Fellini was very reasonable for an intact Fellini, yet it was for sale for a while. Why? Cosmetic.

It's not a highly desirable type of leather either.

I really do not think you will hurt the value and actually I think you will help it.

As I said I considered buying it and doing the same. I assure you if I had bought it, I would have refinished it. I just had other obligations an didn't want to spend the money at the time.

If it were a rare or desirable leather I would hesitate, but it isn't. In fact, the price was so low precisely because of the cosmetic condition. I really think it would be worth more with a good refinish job.

I really don't think you would be destroying a piece of history.

Honestly, it could be beautifully refinished in black. It could be refinished in tan or brown as well. Personally I was going to do it in black.

The best you can do for the seams is condition the leather so it does not shrink, and it may relax a little. I wouldn't lift the leather and try to stretch it. That's a can of worms. I had to fix a tooled Engles case somebody tried that on. It came out great but they almost ruined the case. I got it cheap for that reason. It is now in my collection.

.

TILT9 · Aug 31, 2017

runscott said:
I do a good job refurbishing leather, so no need to farm out such work. My concern was more about destroying a piece of history. I do a lot of repair/restoration of antique items, and this is a question I always have to speculate about before I begin any work. Following is the thread where Jack Justis gave me advice ten years ago on leather restoration. I've always used the techniques and products he describes.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=53096

As an aside, I never messed with the case described in the above thread, as I decided that too much of the tooling would be lost.

Right back at you.
Thanks , that link is like 10yrs old and I enjoyed read every jot.

runscott · Aug 31, 2017

TILT9 said:
Right back at you.
Thanks , that link is like 10yrs old and I enjoyed read every jot.

After reading your previous post, I went digging around to find Jack's original instructions, as they seemed about the same. The three of us may be the only ones who use that exact sequence of steps. Googling the topic, almost everyone discussing leather re-dying suggests that after stripping, let dry overnight, then dye, then condition - I couldn't find any instructions that included conditioning the leather after stripping and then dying while damp, but one person suggested dying while the leather was still wet from stripping. I can't argue against any of those other methods, as I have never tried them.

I also saw a lot of complaints about resulting streaky leather and uneven coats of dye. I have never had any problems - the dye dries to a matt finish, then you spray on a light coat of sheen and buff when dry. For this project; however, I've picked up some matte-finish rub-on post-dye conditioner, and also some rub-on high-gloss. I will test first on leather scrap, as I have always used Fiebings spray-on.

runscott · Aug 31, 2017

Chopdoc said:
IMHO the price on that Fellini was very reasonable for an intact Fellini, yet it was for sale for a while. Why? Cosmetic.

It's not a highly desirable type of leather either.

I really do not think you will hurt the value and actually I think you will help it.

As I said I considered buying it and doing the same. I assure you if I had bought it, I would have refinished it. I just had other obligations an didn't want to spend the money at the time.

If it were a rare or desirable leather I would hesitate, but it isn't. In fact, the price was so low precisely because of the cosmetic condition. I really think it would be worth more with a good refinish job.

I really don't think you would be destroying a piece of history.

Honestly, it could be beautifully refinished in black. It could be refinished in tan or brown as well. Personally I was going to do it in black.

The best you can do for the seams is condition the leather so it does not shrink, and it may relax a little. I wouldn't lift the leather and try to stretch it. That's a can of worms. I had to fix a tooled Engles case somebody tried that on. It came out great but they almost ruined the case. I got it cheap for that reason. It is now in my collection.

.

Thanks for the advice. It's hard to mess up smooth leather, but if somehow I did, I would just figure out what went wrong and re-do it.

Have you ever used leather crack-filler? (I have not)

Chopdoc · Aug 31, 2017

runscott said:
Thanks for the advice. It's hard to mess up smooth leather, but if somehow I did, I would just figure out what went wrong and re-do it.

Have you ever used leather crack-filler? (I have not)

There are various ways to deal with cracks and voids and even holes.

I have patched an elephant case that literally had a hole in it and you cannot tell that it has been repaired. It is essentially perfect.

From the pics I don't think there are any disasters there. You'll know better when it is stripped but you can probably make any of those nicks, cuts, and scratches virtually disappear.

I have even ironed out wrinkles. Be careful if you iron, you can burn the leather, gotta put something between the iron and the leather...

Indeed, you can always start over. It's a smooth leather. Heck a shoe repair shop would probably do the job cheap. But the time and attention you would give it yourself would probably turn out better and the satisfaction level is great.

From the sound of it you really already have the know-how. I say go for it. It ain't rocket science.

.

cuesblues · Aug 31, 2017

runscott said:
I do a good job refurbishing leather, so no need to farm out such work. My concern was more about destroying a piece of history. I do a lot of repair/restoration of antique items, and this is a question I always have to speculate about before I begin any work. Following is the thread where Jack Justis gave me advice ten years ago on leather restoration. I've always used the techniques and products he describes.

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=53096

As an aside, I never messed with the case described in the above thread, as I decided that too much of the tooling would be lost.

I have the same problem with two Fellini cases, nice on the inside, nicked up on the outside.
This thread is interesting because I picked up one today that is really old, nice inside with a good tag, but a little nicked up on the outside.
The discoloration of the brass latch looks worse than the leather.
I was going to start a thread tonight, waiting till the third one was delivered, but it's basically the same thing.

Any idea on the Fellini latches?

jimmyco · Aug 31, 2017

Lots of good information in this thread.

I too enjoyed reading the other one from years past. You wouldn't by chance have the images of the other case available? Wouud love to see it.

Thanks and luck on this current one.

Chopdoc · Sep 1, 2017

cuesblues said:
I have the same problem with two Fellini cases, nice on the inside, nicked up on the outside.
This thread is interesting because I picked up one today that is really old, nice inside with a good tag, but a little nicked up on the outside.
The discoloration of the brass latch looks worse than the leather.
I was going to start a thread tonight, waiting till the third one was delivered, but it's basically the same thing.

Any idea on the Fellini latches?

That's tougher.

Replacing them is problematic. I have a couple spare new locks.

But....they can be rechromed/replated in place.

I have never done it, but there are plating kits you can buy for doing such things. I have read about them, watched some videos, etc, but never done it.

Apparently it can be done with the part in place, without removing it. It is something I have seen done in other kinds of restorations. I haven't looked at it in a couple years so I don't have any links. It can be done with chrome, brass nickel, etc...multiple kinds of plating of small parts without removing them.

.

runscott · Sep 1, 2017

I will dig around on the computer when I get home.

jimmyco said:
Lots of good information in this thread.

I too enjoyed reading the other one from years past. You wouldn't by chance have the images of the other case available? Wouud love to see it.

Thanks and luck on this current one.

Refinishing a Fellini case?

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Gold Member

AzB Silver Member

Banned

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

Banned

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member

cue accumulator

NRA4Life

AzB Silver Member

AzB Silver Member