Unlike Golfers, Pool Players do not need Instruction

nobcitypool

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
When the majority of pros today started playing, name the high level instructors that were available. And the internet wasn't even around, so how would you know about them?

Even now, there are 1/100th (probably less) the number of pool instructors as there are PGA Professionals. There are more PGA Professionals in indiana than there are pool instructors in the entire country.

My point is, the lack of availability of certified pool instructors makes it impossible to compare to golf and tennis.

Then there is simple demographics. How many golf and tennis pros came out of a country club environment? The vast majority. Compare that to pool professionals where many if not most came from modest financial backgrounds. Even among the pool professionals, most don't have the money to spend on professional pool instruction. Even the highest paid don't have the financial means to pay for a full time coach to travel with them.

There are some exceptionally great pool instructors that post in this forum regularly and have posted on this thread. I personally believe they could help any pool professional were that professional be willing to pay them and spend sufficient time working on what they're being taught. To say that professionals don't need professional pool instruction or couldn't be helped by it is absolutely absurd.
 
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BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
nobcitypool said:
"To say that professionals don't need professional pool instruction or couldn't be helped by it is absolutely absurd."

I'm not sure anybody in this thread said such a thing. The question isn't could they benefit from such instruction but why don't they seek it out?

If Shane Van Boening worked with an instructor and came out of it saying that a certain instructor helped him correct a few minor things with his stroke and he's now playing the best pool of his life -- other pros would seek out this instructor's services. For some reason this rarely if ever happens.
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
denwhit said:
He is absolutely right on with the golf professionals at the range and in the clubhouse. We all get to know them as they are part of the business. Same with the tennis pros. I would say 50% of all golfers take lessons from their pros. Maybe 1% of pool players take lessons. Most would not even be able to tell you who teaches. Besides, even if they did know, they are broke.
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I'd love to see a study done on the income levels of those who play golf vs. those who play pool.

My biggest issue in getting help with my game back when I was learning was, "Who can I trust?" There was really no way of knowing.

Even today, there are some with high reputations, who IMO, don't deserve them. However, put some real money out there and I guarantee that the cream will rise to the top and the incompetents won't be tolerated.
 
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BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
BilliardsAbout said:
"Then you are making a mistake IMHO. Golfers don't need Tiger Woods's coach, they need people who get them breaking 100/90/80 quickly--same for pool."

We aren't on the same page. I think I was pretty clear in what I wrote. I was talking about why top-players don't seek out instruction.
 
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Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
FranCrimi said:
I'd love to see a study done on the income levels of those who play golf vs. those who play pool.
My biggest issue in getting help with my game back when I was learning was, "Who can I trust?" There was really no way of knowing.
Even today, there are some with high reputations, who IMO, don't deserve them. However, put some real money out there and I guarantee that the cream will rise to the top and the incompetents won't be tolerated.
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Home run hitter, lady!
I guess that's my whole bellyache when it comes to instructors.
I looked up one of the 'big dogs' on youtube and he looked like a complete goofus...couldn't make a ball.
I wouldn't pay that bum a dime. I played better than him myself, when I was only 16.
Even the spectators got up and walked away.
I kinda' like the sound of this Robin Dreyer guy...also Stan Shuffett. And I think this man on here called SpiderWeb might be good at transferring knowledge as well as demonstrating it.
"They" say you're pretty good at it yourself, Ms. Crimi.
You nailed it.................who you gonna' trust?
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:
 
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FranCrimi

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Low500 said:
Home run hitter, lady!
I guess that's my whole bellyache when it comes to instructors.
I looked up one of the 'big dogs' on youtube and he looked like a complete goofus...couldn't make a ball.
I wouldn't pay that bum a dime. I played better than him myself, when I was only 16.
Even the spectators got up and walked away.
I kinda' like the sound of this Robin Dreyer guy...also Stan Shuffett. And I think this man on here called SpiderWeb might be good at transferring knowledge as well as demonstrating it.
"They" say you're pretty good at it yourself, Ms. Crimi.
You nailed it.................who you gonna' trust?
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:
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That's because right now, we're all big fish in a small pond. Add money to the pond and it changes the dynamic immensely. People who have money also know how to protect it. For example, there are some incompetent instructors right now who truly believe they are good instructors. They wouldn't be able to hold up under the higher standards of a different dynamic. That's why it's easier in sports like golf and tennis to find decent teachers. The bad ones can't last long.
 
Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Low500 said:
Home run hitter, lady!
I guess that's my whole bellyache when it comes to instructors.
I looked up one of the 'big dogs' on youtube and he looked like a complete goofus...couldn't make a ball.
I wouldn't pay that bum a dime. I played better than him myself, when I was only 16.
Even the spectators got up and walked away.
I kinda' like the sound of this Robin Dreyer guy...also Stan Shuffett. And I think this man on here called SpiderWeb might be good at transferring knowledge as well as demonstrating it.
"They" say you're pretty good at it yourself, Ms. Crimi.
You nailed it.................who you gonna' trust?
Keep on truckin'
:thumbup:
Click to expand...

You would be amazed at a lesson from Robin Dreyer. But, he does not travel and you must come to his house where he has two very nice tables; one 7' and one 9'. I do hope you do come out as we need AZB believers to get him into the big time. I do believe he should be the next Mosconi Cup coach. You will never know unless you take the trip to Portland!
 
Bobkitty

Bobkitty

I said: "Here kitty, kitty". Got this frown.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Low500 said:
I'll say this...if you've only been into serious pool for the short time you say, that video of your runout was pretty impressive.
I believe you when you say you didn't get there all by yourself...that instructor, Robin Dreyer, really gave you some good stuff and has disciplined you well.
I too, like to stay away from spin as much as possible and work that vertical axis...up and down it. A lot can be done with that cueball on that vertical axis. I don't agree with that 5 points of entry into the pocket though.....I can't even SEE 5 points from 9 feet away.
I'm good with blistering that center. When close to the pocket, yes, it's quite easy to cheat the pocket size to get a desired roll on that cueball. But a far way off and I'm toast.
I don't aim at the pocket anyway. The correct angles (since I'm a CTE nut) take the balls to the pockets without even looking at them.
I know you don't believe that and this is not the place to get into it. We're discussing INSTRUCTORS/COACHES and this Robin guy may be the very one the USA needs.
He might just be a very good candidate for that Mosconi cup task. (if he can stand the cut in pay). It's for sure that the USA needs some new blood in there....just my opinion.
By the way, why not consider FranCrimi? So what if she's a woman....she knows HOW TO WIN.
(personally nothing would delight me more than to see those Euro big shots taken down a notch by a woman coaching. Man, they would howl for sure...it would be beautiful revenge.)
Stay happy,
P.L.
:thumbup:
Click to expand...

You are right about all of that. Merry Christmas!
 
greyghost

greyghost

Coast to Coast
Silver Member
Because of the culture of the game the better the player usually the more exposed to the culture and people. It creates a systematic feeling of untrust and reliance on self.

You have to trust a teacher is telling you the right stuff.

You learned mostly alone with pointers sporadic and no one probably had solid common nomenclature for the same things in diff places.

It’s just institutionalization along with ego and ignorance.

If a player wanted a world class guy he’d get one from here or China Russia where ever....but this is America and it be how it be


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
BilliardsAbout

BilliardsAbout

BondFanEvents.com
Silver Member
There is a simple litmus test. Do not sign up for a weekend clinic or a ten lesson block or anything lengthy with an instructor who is new to you before you do one short lesson with them first. Take that hour to see if you get along and what you can learn in that brief window.

If the instructor is too far away to do this easily, for example, you want to do a long session with them and would have to fly to another city to do it, get referrals before you travel. But both the referring friends and the instructor should be specific. There are excellent instructors here at AZ, however, others have brought students to VERY expensive sessions to tell them "change your entire stroke and practice two hours a day for six months and come back and see me". You can see the problem there. That's different than "let's take a few hours to fix your aim and stance and get you pocketing twice as many balls as before so you go up two handicap ratings in your league within a few weeks."

This is why I sometimes offer free lessons here at AZ or on other sites, for just this purpose.
 
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