Shane and Bergman maintain top two Mosconi Cup spots

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Rest assured, Ken, I'm not joking here. I'll keep you in mind should I choose to abandon my already purchased seats.

Why would you be going in the first place we are a decided underdog no mater who's playing


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sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Why would you be going in the first place we are a decided underdog no mater who's playing


1

If we send a team worthy of the honor of playing in the Mosconi, I'll go to cheer them on. If we, once again, send a team that does not even come close to consisting of our best big table rotation game players, I will not waste my time with it.

... and you are mistaken. We have a very good chance to win if we send SVB, Dechaine, Hall and two others in form when December comes. Right now, I'd go with Sossei (3rd in DCC 9-ball, highest finishing American) and Shuff (who showed solid form at the SBE), but lets see who's in form come autumn.

Unfortunately, we might end up sending far less than that to the 2015 Mosconi, in which case, as you suggest, we'll be big underdogs.

If we, once again, send a contingent that, in my view, is unworthy of representing the US, I'll likely either a) root for Europe in the future, as they are so much more committed to excellence than the US, or b) join the chorus of those who feel that Asia should replace the US in the Mosconi.

The Mosconi is broken. Will this be the year that we fix it, or will we see it drop another notch in relevance?
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
More accurate would be that Shane has been awful, but his teammates have been just slightly worse.

I might accept the word "awful" for his 2014 results (played in 6 matches with just one win), but not prior to that. Through his first 7 years of participation, he played in 41 matches and was on the winning side in 20 (winning 49%). Counting ½ point in a doubles match and 1/5 point in a teams match, he was 13.6 - 13.8 (50% wins). That's not "awful," it's more like "so-so," "middling," or "decent." We expect exceptional from him and we have witnessed just passable in the Cup (until 2014).

The Cup is not like a normal tournament. In many tournaments (but not all) the path to victory often includes a number of lesser players and then the top guys in the last few rounds. The match-winning percentage can be high for the top guys. The Cup now is all top guys, playing races to just 5 or 6. Compiling a winning percentage of about 50% in those circumstances is pretty good, even though it is not what many people expect from Shane based on his performances elsewhere.

Two of the long-time stalwarts of the USA team, Archer and Strickland, are at 55% and 59% wins (using the "contribution to Cup score" method). But the European team was not as tough in some of the early years as it is now.

While Shane's overall 44% now is certainly subpar relative to our expectations, I imagine he'll end up well over 50% by the time his Cup career is over.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
If we send a team worthy of the honor of playing in the Mosconi, I'll go to cheer them on. If we, once again, send a team that does not even come close to consisting of our best big table rotation game players, I will not waste my time with it.

... and you are mistaken. We have a very good chance to win if we send SVB, Dechaine, Hall and two others in form when December comes. Right now, I'd go with Sossei (3rd in DCC 9-ball, highest finishing American) and Shuff (who showed solid form at the SBE), but lets see who's in form come autumn.

Unfortunately, we might end up sending far less than that to the 2015 Mosconi, in which case, as you suggest, we'll be big underdogs.

If we, once again, send a contingent that, in my view, is unworthy of representing the US, I'll likely either a) root for Europe in the future, as they are so much more committed to excellence than the US, or b) join the chorus of those who feel that Asia should replace the US in the Mosconi.

The Mosconi is broken. Will this be the year that we fix it, or will we see it drop another notch in relevance?

Stu, shortly in advance of the 2014 event, you were staunchly supporting the chosen USA team -- saying that it was not a rebuilding year, that we had a good team, and that we could win.

Yes, it turned out bad for the USA. And Schmidt seemed out of form except in his terrific match against Gray. But I don't think it is now fair to call the 2014 team "unworthy of representing the US."

And I'd even go so far as to say almost any group of 5 from those who are currently in the top 16 in the points race would be "worthy" of being on the team. I'll certainly watch. It's good theater. It's a made-for-TV "show." Yes, the best players should be the ones who make the team, because of the prestige and money. But all the drama in who does and doesn't make it ........... fun, maybe, but also a bit overboard.
 

Apocalypse2017

Welcome to the resistance
Silver Member
We do have the 6th man this year being in Vegas an all. Hasn't helped in the last few years tho...
 

Island Drive

Otto/Dads College Roommate/Cleveland Browns
Silver Member
If we send a team worthy of the honor of playing in the Mosconi, I'll go to cheer them on. If we, once again, send a team that does not even come close to consisting of our best big table rotation game players, I will not waste my time with it.

... and you are mistaken. We have a very good chance to win if we send SVB, Dechaine, Hall and two others in form when December comes. Right now, I'd go with Sossei (3rd in DCC 9-ball, highest finishing American) and Shuff (who showed solid form at the SBE), but lets see who's in form come autumn.

Unfortunately, we might end up sending far less than that to the 2015 Mosconi, in which case, as you suggest, we'll be big underdogs.

If we, once again, send a contingent that, in my view, is unworthy of representing the US, I'll likely either a) root for Europe in the future, as they are so much more committed to excellence than the US, or b) join the chorus of those who feel that Asia should replace the US in the Mosconi.

The Mosconi is broken. Will this be the year that we fix it, or will we see it drop another notch in relevance?

To build a new team it takes TIME......some of us here would rather see players with respect for the game and their peers, not MORE concern for just the money. I remember years ago players saying (me included) I would of rather had the money they spent on the trophy than the trophy. Boy how wrong I was looking back.
As the great players see/realize what's taking place, they may take the cat, and put em in the closet and walk out in a suit/tie, and look sharp like your AZ avatar pic. Whenever I see a top pro on FB or wherever wearing raggedy cloths/tee shirt, it's discusting.
 

Baxter

Out To Win
Silver Member
I think Frost would surprise everyone and could end up being one of our biggest assets should he make the team. Dude is a natural killer and used to playing under high pressure. He's taking this very seriously and has some strong finishes in rotation pool so far in 2015.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Stu, shortly in advance of the 2014 event, you were staunchly supporting the chosen USA team -- saying that it was not a rebuilding year, that we had a good team, and that we could win.

Yes, it turned out bad for the USA. And Schmidt seemed out of form except in his terrific match against Gray. But I don't think it is now fair to call the 2014 team "unworthy of representing the US."

And I'd even go so far as to say almost any group of 5 from those who are currently in the top 16 in the points race would be "worthy" of being on the team. I'll certainly watch. It's good theater. It's a made-for-TV "show." Yes, the best players should be the ones who make the team, because of the prestige and money. But all the drama in who does and doesn't make it ........... fun, maybe, but also a bit overboard.

That's not accurate. If you read my posts of last March, I was extremely critical of the eight candidates as named by Coach Wilson early in the year, arguing that we'd left out Archer, Dechaine and Morris, at the time probably three of America's five best.

As for the paring down to the last five, I made it clear that I found the Schmidt choice ridiculous and that the omission of Sossei was a big mistake. Sossei went on to prove just a month later at the Derby City 9-ball, where he came third and was the highest finishing American, just how strong his form was. Still, I wasn't too upset with the other choices from within the eight.

Yes, I tried to be optimistic as we entered the cup, but was hardly surprised by the thrashing we took at the hands of the Europeans, who actually do send a team of in-form players every year.

Finally, I don't see more than a couple of the current top 10 being among America's top five rotation pool players and if we send five of them, we'll be beaten handily once again.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I think Frost would surprise everyone and could end up being one of our biggest assets should he make the team. Dude is a natural killer and used to playing under high pressure. He's taking this very seriously and has some strong finishes in rotation pool so far in 2015.

Yeah I like the fact that he set getting on the Mosconi team as a clear goal and is working towards it. I think if you get on a team that way, you're going to be more dedicated to it when you make it.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
I think Frost would surprise everyone and could end up being one of our biggest assets should he make the team. Dude is a natural killer and used to playing under high pressure. He's taking this very seriously and has some strong finishes in rotation pool so far in 2015.

Wishing Scott Frost all the best with his quest to be on this year's Team USA. To be fair, though, he showed very little form at Super Billiards Expo on the big tables.
 

Baxter

Out To Win
Silver Member
Wishing Scott Frost all the best with his quest to be on this year's Team USA. To be fair, though, he showed very little form at Super Billiards Expo on the big tables.

Yeah but he has 5 top 5 finishes in rotation pool so far this year, including taking down the Andy Mercer Memorial against a pretty strong field that included Shane.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Here's what I said. Note the phrase "shortly in advance of the 2014 event."

Stu, shortly in advance of the 2014 event, you were staunchly supporting the chosen USA team -- saying that it was not a rebuilding year, that we had a good team, and that we could win. ...

You then said:

That's not accurate. If you read my posts of last March, ...

I wasn't talking about March, but "shortly in advance of the 2014 event." Here's are a couple things you said in November:

"Wow, talk about low expectations. Rebuilding year? Not exactly. We're sending a good team."

and

"This team can win, and I'm growing very tired of those who are already making excuses and speaking of how they might be satisfied with a loss. We can do this!"

So what I said here in post #64 is accurate regarding your statements a few weeks before the event. I just don't think it is fair now, given that they were soundly beaten, to be saying that they were "unworthy of representing the US" regardless of the preferences you had for some different players to be on the team.
 
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j_zippel

Big Tuna
Silver Member
If we send a team worthy of the honor of playing in the Mosconi, I'll go to cheer them on. If we, once again, send a team that does not even come close to consisting of our best big table rotation game players, I will not waste my time with it.

... and you are mistaken. We have a very good chance to win if we send SVB, Dechaine, Hall and two others in form when December comes. Right now, I'd go with Sossei (3rd in DCC 9-ball, highest finishing American) and Shuff (who showed solid form at the SBE), but lets see who's in form come autumn.

Unfortunately, we might end up sending far less than that to the 2015 Mosconi, in which case, as you suggest, we'll be big underdogs.

If we, once again, send a contingent that, in my view, is unworthy of representing the US, I'll likely either a) root for Europe in the future, as they are so much more committed to excellence than the US, or b) join the chorus of those who feel that Asia should replace the US in the Mosconi.

The Mosconi is broken. Will this be the year that we fix it, or will we see it drop another notch in relevance?

I'd like to see Oscar back this year.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'd like to see Oscar back this year.

Back he was never there infact it was him that was the first of the ones who didn't go that bailed the other 2 followed suit ,, personaly I don't think any of those 3 has a chance in hell of having a winning record ,,


1
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Back he was never there infact it was him that was the first of the ones who didn't go that bailed the other 2 followed suit ,, personaly I don't think any of those 3 has a chance in hell of having a winning record ,,


1

Oscar Dominguez was a member of Team USA in 2009, which was the only year since 2005 that Team USA won. Oscar lost both of his singles matches (to Souquet and Immonen) but was on the winning side in 2 out of 3 doubles matches and in the teams match.
 

j_zippel

Big Tuna
Silver Member
Back he was never there infact it was him that was the first of the ones who didn't go that bailed the other 2 followed suit ,, personaly I don't think any of those 3 has a chance in hell of having a winning record ,,





1


lol.. He made the team and didn't go? What are you talking about? He wasn't asked to be a playing member if your referring to last year. He was a member and considered one of the top American players in '09 and has more than enough game to be a force for the US team.
 
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spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I assume that it is the Chimp talking on this one. The one in the Avatar.
Luke has more insight on the world of pool than any six people on this forum. Over the years he has made no significant decisions that the have turned out to be wrong.
You don't work for Barry Hearn for 20 years unless you can cut the mustard.

Luke will probably chuckle at the sheer inanity of Spartan/Simba's post


Sorry you are mistaken, I am a lion not a chimp
Cheers!

Simba
:D
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
If we send a team worthy of the honor of playing in the Mosconi, I'll go to cheer them on. If we, once again, send a team that does not even come close to consisting of our best big table rotation game players, I will not waste my time with it.


with this list, we won't be attending either -
 
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