New Billiard Hall in Southwest Florida

Mike,

Separate your emotion from wanting a great place to play and the reality of the pool world business model.

Do yourself a favor, buy a table for your home and call it a day

Ask yourself the question, "Would a value investor put $$ into a pool hall?"

There's your answer.

Thanks

JC

mikemosconi said:

So the answer is that a pool hall cannot be successful in today's pool situation here in the U.S. - do others share that point of view- if so, I'll accept that and just drop my intentions. I assume though that not all pool halls existing in the U.S. are losing money today? Thanks Mike

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My suggestion is take a few trips to go and see successful pool halls and what they have to do to be successful.
Snookers in Rhode Island always comes to mind as one of the most successful pool halls in the nation. They have big tables for pro tournaments. A new England pool hall of fame for nostalgia and historical effect, and then there's a great menu, bar, and staff to go along with that.

Unless you are ready to go all in, with bar/menu/pool... I'm would caution any other way (to put it nicely)

My suggestion is, spend a weekend in Providence, at Snookers and ping all your questions and concerns off the owner. I'm sure he would be more than happy to give you the real world/honest treatment.

If you are thinking about a sizeable investment into a pool hall, certainly a plane ticket, hotel room and a day in Rhode Island is worth it to find out what the reality is.

http://www.snookersri.com/

Mike, stop by Salt City Billiards in Syracuse NY to see how you can make an excellent room on a modest budget, with low overhead. The owner there did a fantastic job setting it up. PM me if you want to chat sometime.

I’m familiar with the area, lots of great golf and big retail spaces from what I can recall
from many years ago.
With big league sports not being what it was then, now mostly for the outlier fan, it
would seem one with more than a few bucks and a good feel for this area would do well
with the right mix of event driven hospitality.

mikemosconi said:

I am retiring to Southwest Florida this winter from the Northeast. I have a home in Naples Florida area since 2013 and on my many trips there did not see too many decent billiard halls. I am thinking about possibly investing some of my own funds into a new venue- Naples RE would be too expensive and I am not crazy about FT. Myers area- so that leaves Bonita Springs and Estero as possible alternative locations.
Questions: 1. anyone here know the area well from a billiards perspective and can shed light on whether such a venture could be profitable? 2. I am not a league player- anyone in Southwest Florida running successful billiard leagues that could be expanded? 3. Are there any major tours in Florida that could use a nice new room in this location as a tour stop? 4. Would local tournaments be successful from the standpoint of having enough nine foot table players to support weekly tournaments in this area? 5. Would limiting alcohol to beer/wine and not serving food be a death sentence to a new venue - I really do not want to get into a full kitchen/chef set up.

Thanks for any and all serious inputs on this- I would like to contribute to the continuation of pool and not needing to make a $$killing - just don't want to lose my shirt either! Mike

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Safer from hurricanes is humble Gainesville, Florida, with its 100,000 population plus 100,000 more in the county plus 75,000 college students. The pool here is in trouble and we can make a bunch of money with a great hall in Gainesville. Realty and rentals are inexpensive. Cost of living for you is inexpensive.

I can get you several house men to help at no or little charge and can get tour friends and touring pros to visit, teach and patronize in Gainesville. Further, I have advised halls on business needs, tournaments, alcohol sales, etc. and work with manufacturers, contractors and installers. Send me a PM!

Ever thought about outside the USA , like doing it in the Bahamas. What type of tables were you considering , diamonds, gold crown , (bar box) or 9 footers.

mikemosconi said:

So the answer is that a pool hall cannot be successful in today's pool situation here in the U.S. - do others share that point of view- if so, I'll accept that and just drop my intentions. I assume though that not all pool halls existing in the U.S. are losing money today? Thanks Mike

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Seems bar-restaurants with pool table do pretty well, but tables alone? Madness.

Unless you want to run a bar-restaurant, I say don't bother.

I live here, full time (Cape Coral), worked in Bonita, visit Naples periodically.

I don't frequent the rooms here, do not play in tournaments/leagues, so take all this with a suitable grain of salt.

My impression is that the largest and most active room is Diamonds in North Cape Coral (it may be considered North Fort Myers, not quite sure). I have no idea if it's profitable, but it's quite large. Most others I have seen are fairly small, at least in comparison.

When I worked in Bonita, most people were commuting there from Naples or Ft. Myers or Cape Coral. While certainly people live there, the bigger populations are around you, so you will likely need a draw to get people to drive.

If you are trying to draw regular players - no idea.

If you want to draw new people into it, you might look for a hook. I do not know what hook might work, but some thoughts:

- Most I have seen are bars. Bars do well here, but they are all bars (which also means all allow smoking). It might be worth seeing if you can be a bit different. It's why I never go out to shoot, I can't stand smoke. I don't know if I'm in the 0.01% who it bothers enough to keep them away, or there's 40% out there who have nowhere to go you could attract.

- Wine is big here, my wife's friends "invest" more in drinking wine than almost anything else they do for fun (though they don't realize how much they do). The local liquor store has tastings about every month or two and are packed. How about a "tasting" themed wine bar - wide variety of prices and qualities and offer "flights" of wine to taste while playing (or eating). Then sell the wine also.

- Similarly micro-breweries are big as well; I wonder how a combination micro-brew and pool room would do? Find someone thinking of doing a micro-brewery to partner with?

- I have yet to see any rooms where youth would be welcome much less comfortable; lots of old folks here, but more and more families, and lots of grandkids. Maybe somewhere (or days) to try to get some interest; maybe try to hook up with other youth-oriented things..

- It's probably WAY too expensive, but people love an excuse to travel by boat to something; getting near/on the water could be a unique kind of draw. But WAY too expensive for property I think.

- Between FSW and FGCU there are two pretty large student populations here; any chance to capitalize on them, be close enough, get their interest, start leagues? Neither are exactly in Bonita though, north and east. Sure, lots of starving students who can't afford it, but also LOTS who claim to be starving while having money for new, fancy cars and any other toys they want.

- It's very seasonal as you know; business that do well either make huge amounts off the high season, or manage to find attraction in full time people. My guess is the latter is the only hope in a relatively low margin business (which I suspect pool rooms are). Not sure how you ensure that, just a thought, but surviving the poor traffic summer is tough here. A lot of the subdivisions in Bonita are highly seasonal (the ones that are not are pretty poor).

- Go for moderately priced and Neapolitans won't be interested; go after higher priced and most others can't afford to come. Apologies if it seems rude, but snob appeal is a real dividing line in much of the dining, drinking and entertainment scenes here, with Naples being the peak. Trying to draw from both directions will make it difficult; can't think of many entertainment scenes (dining, drinking, or others) that draw well from both crowds.

I'm sure people can think of many reasons why some of these ideas can't work, but they are worth at least what you paid for them.

I'll look for the opening announcement!

Regarding rooms

Hi Mike:
Our database is pretty complete and has pretty much what you need to know about all the rooms.
Hope it helps you to narrow down what is there and not and what they have as far as amenities.

*We just loaded the codes and the database last week and really haven't gone public, but it is open to the public, of course!

Check it out and hope it helps.

Search the directory here

FWIW, I've been vacationing at Bonita Beach a week or two at a time for the last 32 years. I have never seen a pool based bar last. There was a nice one opened up at Tamiami and Bonita Beach road that lasted about two years. It shut down and someone else took it over and it lasted about another year. Both were basically bars with tables. Sneaky Petes has lasted but they only have one table and it isn't really pool being played there. Again, mostly just a bar with a table. I've yet to see any real interest in pool in that area.


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mikemosconi said:

I am retiring to Southwest Florida this winter from the Northeast. I have a home in Naples Florida area since 2013 and on my many trips there did not see too many decent billiard halls. I am thinking about possibly investing some of my own funds into a new venue- Naples RE would be too expensive and I am not crazy about FT. Myers area- so that leaves Bonita Springs and Estero as possible alternative locations.
Questions: 1. anyone here know the area well from a billiards perspective and can shed light on whether such a venture could be profitable? 2. I am not a league player- anyone in Southwest Florida running successful billiard leagues that could be expanded? 3. Are there any major tours in Florida that could use a nice new room in this location as a tour stop? 4. Would local tournaments be successful from the standpoint of having enough nine foot table players to support weekly tournaments in this area? 5. Would limiting alcohol to beer/wine and not serving food be a death sentence to a new venue - I really do not want to get into a full kitchen/chef set up.

Thanks for any and all serious inputs on this- I would like to contribute to the continuation of pool and not needing to make a $$killing - just don't want to lose my shirt either! Mike

Click to expand...

I can't really help you but I can tell you every time I fly to Naples and hang out for a day or two it's a real pain in the $ss to drive to Cape Coral to play. Last time I was there I drove to Ft. Lauderdale to play. If you open a room I wish the best of luck

Hi Mike,
I know all of the area very well and have lived here for 24 years. Give me a call and I am sure I can help you out quite a bit as I have considered a very similar idea.

In the beginning it's all about research. You start by assessing your abilities to do such a thing. You have to be honest with yourself and identify your strengths and how you will overcome any weaknesses. Do you have the business acumen to pull this off. Starting a business and learning on the job is probably a recipe for disaster.

If it's still doable then research the costs. Can you afford this or can you get financing? If you have to hire talent that will be another expense.

I suggest you put together a comprehensive business model and then run it by the experts. You'll need one for any financing anyway. Looking at other successful like operations is helpful and educational. So is asking questions and learning. But remember what works for one place may not work in your area. Research local laws and ordinances. Find out what liabilities can damage your operation. You'll need insurance, equipment, employees, a place to build or rent, etc. The clock starts when you commit to things and those folks are going to be looking for you to pay on time.

Calculate the income needed to stay in business and compare that to your expectations. Most business start off slow (for a variety of reasons). You will need money to compensate for early issues. Success or failure long term will depend on a few key items: How well you researched, prepared and did your homework. How well you handle problems when they arise. There's a lot more involved here than the few things I mentioned; but the idea was to say it's complicated and not as easy as it looks. Best you know now then later and in trouble. I don't mean to discourage you - and wish you luck if you give it a shot.