Idea's for a picking Mosconi Cup players for next year

dardusm

dardusm

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What idea's do any of you have for picking the American team? I've put down an idea that I had. It will be interesting to see what Match Sports does for next years team.

Take the top 10 point finishers from the qualifying cup points events. After the US Open, have a Mosconi cup style event using the top 10 players to create 2 teams. One team will have seeds 1, 3, 5, 10 and 7 the other team seeds 2,4,6,8 and 9. Have them compete with one another in a similar format as the Mosconi cup. Everyone plays a team, singles, and double match. Winning players get a point, winning team gets a point, and winning doubles partners each get a point. The team that wins the competition gets an additional point. The top 4 will make the team with one Captains pick. You earn your way into the competition and those that cope the best will make the team.
 
JCIN

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
Posted this in another thread. Its in the same direction as your thinking:


Take the top five qualifiers and five captains picks. Lock them in a room for two weeks playing nothing but the Cup format. The five guys who demonstrate they want to be a part of a team the most and who can perform in the cup format are who gets to go.

No one should be considered a lock to go no matter who they are. Finishing top five in points guarantees you a spot at training camp. Want that cup money then you have to perform under the cup format and in a team environment.

The whole current deal of once you are on the team you are on it no matter how you perform or what attitude you have I think makes it tough to treat the Cup as anything more than an All Star game exhibition type event. Which it is really. But if the US wants to win the approach has to change.
 
Cornerman

Cornerman

Cue Author...Sometimes
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think they should be picked based on an AZBilliards poll. That would be awesome.


Freddie <~~~ what could go wrong?
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Here's my idea.

Early in the calendar year, take the five members of 2016 Mosconi team and five (or more) other players worthy of consideration --- let's say, for the sake of argument, Billy Thorpe, Oscar Dominguez, Josh Roberts, Shawn Wilkie, and Shane McMinn.

Measure their skills in each major area of the game. For me that means:

Break
Pocketing
Position play
Pattern play
Safety play
Kicking and billiard knowledge

After assessing each player, advise them of their weaknesses and ask them to work on those weaknesses. Test them again in October, and eliminate those that haven't addressed their weakness(es) from Team USA consideration. Those that have made progress remain eligible for team consideration.

The team should be the five highest Mosconi ranking point earners among those that have addressed their weaknesses.

Ths would mean we'd have a team of players who cared enough to improve their skills and address their weaknesses during the year.
 
G

GB Basher

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Firstly, only have qualifying events that are 9/10 ball. And only played on 9ft tables.
Also players would only be eligible if they played a certain amount of world events.

Top 2 (get automatic spots) and next 8 all go to a 'pool school' where the format etc is replicated.
Remaining 3 are chosen by the captain.
 
JCIN

JCIN

TheActionReport.com
Gold Member
sjm said:
Here's my idea.

Early in the calendar year, take the five members of 2016 Mosconi team and five (or more) other players worthy of consideration --- let's say, for the sake of argument, Billy Thorpe, Oscar Dominguez, Josh Roberts, Shawn Wilkie, and Shane McMinn.

Measure their skills in each major area of the game. For me that means:

Break
Pocketing
Position play
Pattern play
Safety play
Kicking and billiard knowledge

After assessing each player, advise them of their weaknesses and ask them to work on those weaknesses. Test them again in October, and eliminate those that haven't addressed their weakness(es) from Team USA consideration. Those that have made progress remain eligible for team consideration.

The team should be the five highest Mosconi ranking point earners among those that have addressed their weaknesses.

Ths would mean we'd have a team of players who cared enough to improve their skills and address their weaknesses during the year.
Click to expand...

I don't believe basic skills are the problem. The issue is the format and setting.

Do you really think the Euros do anything better than the Americans when it comes to basic skills? They execute better, have a better attitude and manage mistakes better in the cup format. Thats why they win.

You think Shane working on his position play or break will make him better at playing in the Cup? The problem is not that the US lacks technically skilled players.

I agree that there needs to be some method to select a final team from a pool of qualified players.
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
GB Basher said:
Firstly, only have qualifying events that are 9/10 ball. And only played on 9ft tables.
Also players would only be eligible if they played a certain amount of world events.

Top 2 (get automatic spots) and next 8 all go to a 'pool school' where the format etc is replicated.
Remaining 3 are chosen by the captain.
Click to expand...

To be honest, I wouldn't mind if we counted the Derby City banks and Derby City one pocket, as these are great test of skills that translate well to nine ball.

Counting events played on bar tables is absolutely ridiculous, though I'll be happy to change that view should the Mosconi become a barbox event.
 
jasonlaus

jasonlaus

Rep for Smorg
Silver Member
Neil said:
Get Shaw his citizenship and then grab him.
Click to expand...

I thought the same thing......until I realized he suffers from the same thing Shane suffers from.

Btw, Shaw and Shane are my favorite players.

It's good to see Mike and Rodney be8ng happy and supportive. I have no problem with Mikes attitude this year.
Jason
 
N

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
jasonlaus said:
I thought the same thing......until I realized he suffers from the same thing Shane suffers from.

Btw, Shaw and Shane are my favorite players.

It's good to see Mike and Rodney be8ng happy and supportive. I have no problem with Mikes attitude this year.
Jason
Click to expand...

If he was on our team, and suffered the same as Shane, no problem. At least then we can say he was just a European plant to make us lose. Sounds like a better excuse than the Americans just suck. :D
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
JCIN said:
I don't believe basic skills are the problem. The issue is the format and setting.

Do you really think the Euros do anything better than the Americans when it comes to basic skills? They execute better, have a better attitude and manage mistakes better in the cup format. Thats why they win.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think it's basic skills. Bergman needs to develop a better break. His break is not world class. Dechaine must address his weak defensive and kicking skills, which are not world class. Sky needs to kick better and pocket better if he is to succeed. All of these need to learn to utilize two ways shots the way Europe does. Fine players all of them, all capable of high finishes in top events, but they don't win those events because their skills are not comparable to the elite Europeans and Asians.

To me, decision making is a basic skill, and it is in this area where we are far weaker than Europe and Asia.

Europeans have slightly better fundamentals, but the edge is small.

Yes, Shane has little to work on, although his defense and tactics are only ordinary. Of course, his pocketing and breaking may be the best in the world. His patterns are better than they used to be, but they could be a little better still.

Through day 2, Team USA had more break and run games than Europe, but in the racks where both teams shot, we were manhandled, as our tactical play (defense/kicking/two way shots) is so far below that of Europe.

Yes, the gap in skills is a problem.
 
ribdoner

ribdoner

SATISFACTION GUARANTEED
Silver Member
sjm said:
Yes, I think it's basic skills. Bergman needs to develop a better break. His break is not world class. Dechaine must address his weak defensive and kicking skills, which are not world class. Sky needs to kick better and pocket better if he is to succeed. All of these need to learn to utilize two ways shots the way Europe does. Fine players all of them, all capable of high finishes in top events, but they don't win those events because their skills are not comparable to the elite Europeans and Asians.

To me, decision making is a basic skill, and it is in this area where we are far weaker than Europe and Asia.

Europeans have slightly better fundamentals, but the edge is small.

Yes, Shane has little to work on, although his defense and tactics are only ordinary. Of course, his pocketing and breaking may be the best in the world. His patterns are better than they used to be, but they could be a little better still.

Through day 2, Team USA had more break and run games than Europe, but in the racks where both teams shot, we were manhandled, as our tactical play (defense/kicking/two way shots) is so far below that of Europe.

Yes, the gap in skills is a problem.
Click to expand...


i like GREY, by a TON, playing "horse" and SHAW by half a ton
 
HawaiianEye

HawaiianEye

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Americans play a different game than the Europeans.

It is kind of like comparing American boxers to European boxers. Both boxers are in the same ring, using the same rules, but they have different styles and tactics.

The Europeans play what I would call a "hard" game, where they follow a stricter structure, simpler patterns, and a less "loose" style than the Americans. They are more regimented and stick to plans that are simpler, tried, and proven to be effective. The Americans play a style that is more prone to creating errors.

This short format requires that you make the smartest shot every time.

In order to compete, the Americans are going to have to relearn the game.

FWIW, I think the Taiwanese and Chinese play the best "hard game" pool in the world.
 
sjm

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
HawaiianEye said:
The Americans play a different game than the Europeans.

It is kind of like comparing American boxers to European boxers. Both boxers are in the same ring, using the same rules, but they have different styles and tactics.

The Europeans play what I would call a "hard" game, where they follow a stricter structure, simpler patterns, and a less "loose" style than the Americans. They are more regimented and stick to plans that are simpler, tried, and proven to be effective. The Americans play a style that is more prone to creating errors.

This short format requires that you make the smartest shot every time.

In order to compete, the Americans are going to have to relearn the game.

FWIW, I think the Taiwanese and Chinese play the best "hard game" pool in the world.
Click to expand...

That's a fine, insightful, post.
 
G

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
GB Basher said:
Firstly, only have qualifying events that are 9/10 ball. And only played on 9ft tables.
Also players would only be eligible if they played a certain amount of world events.

Top 2 (get automatic spots) and next 8 all go to a 'pool school' where the format etc is replicated.
Remaining 3 are chosen by the captain.
Click to expand...
Totally agree on the table size. Bar-box tournament results should have no bearing on MC points.
 
G

gascoigne

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Have more doubles competition with good prize money and fans are allowed to cheer like darts events and you got the training ground for MC. And it will definitely create more hype and interest in the sport.
 
spartan

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dardusm said:
What idea's do any of you have for picking the American team? I've put down an idea that I had. It will be interesting to see what Match Sports does for next years team.

Take the top 10 point finishers from the qualifying cup points events. After the US Open, have a Mosconi cup style event using the top 10 players to create 2 teams. One team will have seeds 1, 3, 5, 10 and 7 the other team seeds 2,4,6,8 and 9. Have them compete with one another in a similar format as the Mosconi cup. Everyone plays a team, singles, and double match. Winning players get a point, winning team gets a point, and winning doubles partners each get a point. The team that wins the competition gets an additional point. The top 4 will make the team with one Captains pick. You earn your way into the competition and those that cope the best will make the team.
Click to expand...

Agree. I am always amused why teams are selected based on different formats
like bar box, rack your own , race to 7 or more , individual play instead of team play
The optimum players for MC should be selected based on 9ft, ref rack, race to 5, team play under high pressure


HawaiianEye said:
The Americans play a different game than the Europeans.

It is kind of like comparing American boxers to European boxers. Both boxers are in the same ring, using the same rules, but they have different styles and tactics.

The Europeans play what I would call a "hard" game, where they follow a stricter structure, simpler patterns, and a less "loose" style than the Americans. They are more regimented and stick to plans that are simpler, tried, and proven to be effective. The Americans play a style that is more prone to creating errors.

This short format requires that you make the smartest shot every time.

In order to compete, the Americans are going to have to relearn the game.

FWIW, I think the Taiwanese and Chinese play the best "hard game" pool in the world.
Click to expand...
This nails it
They always say they want players to be "loose" but in this race to 5, they have to play tight, super intense focus, discipline (Niels and Darren are best examples )
Key difference is Euros play every ball while Americans play every rack. :)
 
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