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09-13-2017, 11:34 AM

Seems to me a cue ball would be easier to aim at that a portion of an object ball at random distances.

It sounds so simple, do a little division problem to arrive at a fraction and then just shoot it in. I can show anyone the contact point to make a ball, any ball that's cutable in 3 -5 seconds and they can understand it. The problem is hitting that exact spot with the opposite side of the cueball, by aiming it with a stick. That is why people miss shots, because it's not easy to aim accurately, whether they see the correct aim line or not.


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09-13-2017, 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade_56 View Post
Seems to me a cue ball would be easier to aim at that a portion of an object ball at random distances.

It sounds so simple, do a little division problem to arrive at a fraction and then just shoot it in. I can show anyone the contact point to make a ball, any ball that's cutable in 3 -5 seconds and they can understand it. The problem is hitting that exact spot with the opposite side of the cueball, by aiming it with a stick. That is why people miss shots, because it's not easy to aim accurately, whether they see the correct aim line or not.

I agree with the point about showing someone where to aim doesn't mean they'll be able to do it. But the accuracy in aiming straight toward a distant aim point on the back of the OB is no less accurate than getting multiple "known" visuals on this distant OB. And then in the end, when you have a CB solution, the challenge of stroking that CB exactly down that solved line is no less challenging than aiming at the back of the OB at that distance.


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09-13-2017, 12:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
Lol. I understand. Let's forget the stick....it's not part of the line. Are you saying that a known visual line of aim from CB to OB that is guaranteed to send the OB into a pocket, is less accurate than using 2 visuals, one from CCB to OB edge, the other from CB edge to the players best estimate of either the A, B, or C point on the OB??

The accuracy of all of these visuals, the single or double method, is equal. But with the single visual you are already looking at the solution for the shot. With 2 or 3 or 8 visuals (or however many), the solution is a result of a combination of visuals. It all seems unnecessary if you already know the solution. I mean, if we're standing outside of an open doorway, while you are locating the exact center entry by using multiple visual lines from a fixed focal point/perspective and then somehow choosing a solution to enter, I've already walked through the door based on the obvious solution I saw when I first looked at the opening.
Lol that's an excellent description about walking through the door and that takes me to the individualism portion of this endeavor, where some don't need lines, where others do.

That's why I can tell pretty well, in the case of left handed players, who shoots like a true left hander like yourself or scott frost etc. Theres something different about their game and the way the balls pocket and cue ball reacts. A truer connectivity that doesn't bash or bulldoze in effect.

Efren to me is a right handed player who executes like a true lefty. Mika imonen is a classic example of a right handed player who bulldozes through the tangent and contact lines.

Lefties operate typical from the right side of the brain that is more artistic and for some reason, is user friendly in the nature of spheres in which they can "see it". Most lefties in general are creative and artistic. That's a proven fact with no argument really.

But I seen lefties who are definitely left brained when it comes to pool and it figures that those few I encountered are very mechanical, working on cars etc etc.

Most of us righty's are rational types who need something to copy or verify, so I think that explains the other side of the argument or discussion in this case of lines and I say more power to you.

If I had the choice between being a lefty or righty player, I can honestly say I don't know which one I would choose but I sure would like to know what it is you see and feel, no different than most pga tour players saying they wish they could be fred couples for a day to see what it feels like.

Fred is not a lefty but i was just making a point that hopefully helps to understand what I'm getting at. Fred doesn't play really by alignment and the rational robotic side of things, his gurus focus him on fluidity and tempo and that sort of stuff. The artistic pretty side of the spectrum.

Thanks for the feed back sir.
  
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09-13-2017, 12:08 PM

And for the record, I say contact points etc pulls a player inherently thick to shot relationships and I personally have a problem with that because there is another side to the cueball that has to be embraced when trying to achieve 100% cueball control and command. Don't know if this is constructive to the construction but it's relevant imo.
  
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09-13-2017, 12:25 PM

Thicker is better than not for the many amateurs who over and again severely overcut shots.


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09-13-2017, 01:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
Thicker is better than not for the many amateurs who over and again severely overcut shots.
Thats only relavant if an amateur makes a decision early in what direction of improvement level they wish to achieve. I made my decision of getting on both sides, after years of "thick", and it ingrained severe problems that made and still makes it hard to get on the other side of the cueball.

I agree though, the thick side is one of the sides that has to be mastered as well. Any way, I see things totally different as to what "is" and what is accepted. I'm often told im wasting my time and going against certain physics and grain, but then i got to hear all the hero worship from the same people about how so and so can bend shots better or like no one else OR the classic one about how one wants to get better, but they want to have fun, but they want to get better, but they want to have fun, 2+2=4, 2+2=5, 2+2=4, 2+2=5.

Heres the problem, the amateur doesnt know this decision because nobody is addressing it the same as.... heres a popsicle stick shaft that is the answer to most problems.

I go a step further in saying "missing" is NOT acceptable. I have not found one shred of evidence yet saying that it should be, regardless of the concept being unreasonable and what status quo says.

I got problems with your statement sir because you make it sound as if its ok and maybe im wrong because i dont have esp obviously but you sure as hell sound permissive.

Any way, have a nice day and i mean it, not trying to be a smart ass.
  
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09-13-2017, 01:37 PM

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Originally Posted by denwhit View Post
Well wait.... I thought the size of the table; 2 X 1, meant that CTE works! Meant that the balls go toward the holes (because of the 2 X 1 table gearing action). You're at the other end of the table and the 9 ball is sitting stuck to the 4 ball and into the pocket at the other end. The balls are tied up and you've got to hit the one ball toward the shot 6" away from the corner pocket into the 4 ball to sink the 9 ball. How does that happen when everything is geared toward the pockets? NOW, you're going to tell me you have to rely on your old method of aiming instead of CTE?
Ducky, is that you lol
  
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09-13-2017, 02:44 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC21 View Post
I agree with the point about showing someone where to aim doesn't mean they'll be able to do it. But the accuracy in aiming straight toward a distant aim point on the back of the OB is no less accurate than getting multiple "known" visuals on this distant OB. And then in the end, when you have a CB solution, the challenge of stroking that CB exactly down that solved line is no less challenging than aiming at the back of the OB at that distance.
There are two types of errors in a pool shot. Judgement errors and accuracy errors.

Judgement errors are introduced when the player has to guess or estimate where to aim.

Accuracy errors are introduced in the alignment and execution of the stroke. We are all familiar with how to work to develop a 'straight' stroke and good alignment. Accuracy errors are the same for *almost* every aiming system.

Judgement errors though can vary widely between aiming systems.

Shots like hitting a ball straight in or ghost ball have multiple layers of judgement errors. Center of cuestick has to be judged. Center of cueball. Contact point has to be judged. Ghost ball center has to be judged. etc...

If you're off by 1/16" estimating the center of cue tip to center of OB and then 1/16" off on the contact point and another 1/16" estimating the aim point or ghost ball center. Those errors add up. They could cancel each other out some but they all add up. If they are all on the same side you will miss the shot. If they cancel each other out you'll make the shot in spite of yourself. Which is what I think most players with poor fundamentals do. They develop aiming judgements that offset their poor accuracy. Sometimes. So they make shots almost randomly and can't figure out why they missed most of the time.

Aiming systems reduce judgement errors and some even reduce accuracy errors.


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09-13-2017, 02:46 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
Thicker is better than not for the many amateurs who over and again severely overcut shots.
You must have made a mistake in that. Watch the rank amateurs and see them hit balls thick and even thicker.


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09-13-2017, 02:47 PM

just to lighten the mood.......
my system P.I.I.T.H
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4jEPmHFa8
  
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09-13-2017, 02:50 PM

actually i use contact point to contact point most of the time and fractions sometimes
cant wait for stan to come out with his new material so i can buy the book and watch the videos
always looking to improve and as a student of the game be knowledgeable
  
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09-13-2017, 03:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixpack View Post
There are two types of errors in a pool shot. Judgement errors and accuracy errors.

Judgement errors are introduced when the player has to guess or estimate where to aim.

Accuracy errors are introduced in the alignment and execution of the stroke. We are all familiar with how to work to develop a 'straight' stroke and good alignment. Accuracy errors are the same for *almost* every aiming system.

Judgement errors though can vary widely between aiming systems.

Shots like hitting a ball straight in or ghost ball have multiple layers of judgement errors. Center of cuestick has to be judged. Center of cueball. Contact point has to be judged. Ghost ball center has to be judged. etc...

If you're off by 1/16" estimating the center of cue tip to center of OB and then 1/16" off on the contact point and another 1/16" estimating the aim point or ghost ball center. Those errors add up. They could cancel each other out some but they all add up. If they are all on the same side you will miss the shot. If they cancel each other out you'll make the shot in spite of yourself. Which is what I think most players with poor fundamentals do. They develop aiming judgements that offset their poor accuracy. Sometimes. So they make shots almost randomly and can't figure out why they missed most of the time.

Aiming systems reduce judgement errors and some even reduce accuracy errors.
Good post. I totally agree.


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09-13-2017, 03:06 PM

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Originally Posted by bbb View Post
just to lighten the mood.......
my system P.I.I.T.H
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4jEPmHFa8
I've seen this! Lol. Hilarious!!


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09-14-2017, 05:09 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by paultex View Post
Thats only relavant if an amateur makes a decision early in what direction of improvement level they wish to achieve. I made my decision of getting on both sides, after years of "thick", and it ingrained severe problems that made and still makes it hard to get on the other side of the cueball.

I agree though, the thick side is one of the sides that has to be mastered as well. Any way, I see things totally different as to what "is" and what is accepted. I'm often told im wasting my time and going against certain physics and grain, but then i got to hear all the hero worship from the same people about how so and so can bend shots better or like no one else OR the classic one about how one wants to get better, but they want to have fun, but they want to get better, but they want to have fun, 2+2=4, 2+2=5, 2+2=4, 2+2=5.

Heres the problem, the amateur doesnt know this decision because nobody is addressing it the same as.... heres a popsicle stick shaft that is the answer to most problems.

I go a step further in saying "missing" is NOT acceptable. I have not found one shred of evidence yet saying that it should be, regardless of the concept being unreasonable and what status quo says.

I got problems with your statement sir because you make it sound as if its ok and maybe im wrong because i dont have esp obviously but you sure as hell sound permissive.

Any way, have a nice day and i mean it, not trying to be a smart ass.
No sweat, no problem. Feedback is always welcomed.

Because they may not know about collision-induced throw and etc. a lot of amateurs when they miss overcut shots by two diamonds! They need to soften up their grip and stroke in many cases and aim more thickly.


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09-14-2017, 05:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BilliardsAbout View Post
No sweat, no problem. Feedback is always welcomed.

Because they may not know about collision-induced throw and etc. a lot of amateurs when they miss overcut shots by two diamonds! They need to soften up their grip and stroke in many cases and aim more thickly.
Amazing! Must be the West Coast vs. the East Coast. Here misses are undercuts or too thick on the cut shots. Most amateurs miss by hitting the ball too thick. You just said; "(they miss the collision-induced throw and etc.), that miss makes the OB go straighter and hit the pocket too thick. I still think you've made a mistake in the way you are describing it. In practice, I try to hit the pockets at a thinner angle and perfect is a #5 (the thinnest). On rail shots, I try to make the ball hit 3/4" outside the pocket and never hit the rail it's next to. An over cut (the thinnest). Different strokes, I guess.


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