Johnny Archer & Mosconi Cup

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I like what I read about his approach to training and assessing players strengths and weaknesses using quantifiable rather than subjective data.

I liked his plans to visit various cities in an attempt to raise the profile of the sport and market American pool. Too bad funding was a problem and that apparently won't happen.

They say all politics are local and the smart politicians realize that you win precinct by precinct so they get boots on the ground to bring their message to the masses. No one person can carry all the weight, it takes a well run organization to promote your message.

My point is that there doesn't seem to be any connection with the Mosconi teams and local pool rooms or leagues where the masses are. But I guess that is the root cause of the decline in American pool in general, nobody, no organization to bring the various factions together for the collective good. .

I think you are one of the few posters who grasps the essence of what Mark is trying to achieve. He has settled to the realisation that the changes that he wanted to do could not be implemented as quickly as he thought.

But his mission is not based solely around the MC. He wants to enhance the whole image of pool and make it family friendly again. It will just take a little bit longer than the master plan indicated.

On a tangential note it was entertaining to listen to Mark Cantrill interviewing Jimmy Mataya on American Billiards Radio. I think that Jimmy misinterpreted ssome that Mark said relating to the Mosconi Cup and Jim went into a 'I want to be the US Team Captain' mode. It is not that he would do a bad job but I think it will be a long while before the job comes vacant
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I picked this up from Johnny Archer's Facebook page and felt that it should have a wider airing on AZ

….. Now I see why the USA loses at the Mosconi Cup most of the time. I have been in Germany for 5 days now and i see at 15 juniors in the pool room every day working on their game. They are very respectful to other players. They are having a lot of fun being here. It is wonderful to see. Our young players in the USA can learn some things from these young players. Our young players think you get respect from gambling but you don´t. You earn respect by respecting the game first. USA has a great crop of young talent that can really do well in the sport. I hope they chose the right path to represent the sport. Like these young lads have over here

The thread eventually wanders into a bunch of posting on the Mosconi Cup from people who seem to have been in hibernation for the last six months. Johnny responds to their comments

What has Mark Wilson done different than what was done in the past? If i am wrong then i stand corrected but i haven´t seen any change other than the players on the Mosconi Cup team.

Johnny is certainly right about the juniors in Germany AND the fact that it's treated more like a sport there.

Some here know that I spent 10 years in Germany. I was a member of several billiard clubs, always a member of the first team. I also co-owned a pool room that was the home of a city club. We always supported our junior players and insured that they spent ample time practicing. They in turn wanted to advance to the first team so that they could have the status and benefits that go with it. One of those benefits in many clubs, including the ones I was in, was that the club paid expenses to tournaments.

I have long felt that pool in America could benefit dramatically from such an approach. The major problem though is that America is drastically different in culture to Germany. For example in Germany children are not barred from establishments that serve alcohol. And in the pool scene there are many many many clubhouses that are member-owned which are focused solely on the sport. So access is universal without any issues.

Children are mentored and brought up with team competition. They are not treated as individuals to be pitted against other individuals. Their parents are not taking them around to gamble against others.

In the USA it is very rare to see any pool room doing anything meaningful for the kids. Mostly if you see it it's because someone has stepped up to organize it and run the program out of their own time and resources.

I would ask Johnny what he is doing in his own room. Does he now or will he implement some of the examples he saw in Germany?

Ok, Mosconi Cup.......given that this is the first year that someone was entrusted with a captainship so early in the year it is an experiment. I personally feel that statistically the USA squad has very little chance when the respective records of each team's members are compared. The races are short and as we all know any given player can beat any other player in short races. All of the USA's team prospects are runout players.

If Mark manages to coalesce the final picks into a tight team then the team dynamic could raise the spirits and confidence levels into a fighting unit that can win against a crew of top champions despite being the underdog on paper.

In any event going into the homestretch now. Certainly Matchroom's move was brilliant to keep the Mosconi cup relevant as a subject throughout the year.
 

RobMan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
clip
I would ask Johnny what he is doing in his own room. Does he now or will he implement some of the examples he saw in Germany?


Johnny's room - Marietta Billiard club - is a smoking establishment. Therefore by law, no one under the age of 18 is allowed in. So there ya go....
 

Put_upor_shutup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I didnt read the comments but im sure someone has posted that Johnny started out being known for snapping off every person that got to the table for the cash..And if he thinks thats not what made him the player he is..well im giving blowjobs. Who is next?
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
I didnt read the comments but im sure someone has posted that Johnny started out being known for snapping off every person that got to the table for the cash..And if he thinks thats not what made him the player he is..well im giving blowjobs. Who is next?

I agree with this as well. But I also think that a lot of pros wish it were otherwise. You obviously would be closer to this scene than me but I would tend to think that the constant matching up would get old quick. Either you're laying down or you're in tough action or you can't even get in action because no one wants to make a game.

I think Johnny is expressing more the wish that there was a path to professional pool that didn't include going through the gambling phase.

Now, let's talk about your signature :)

See this table [pointing to a coffee table], there is hardly a man that can’t stand up on this table and walk from one end to the other. But put that table 500 feet in the air and you couldn’t get him to stand on the table. It’s the same table, it’s just his imagination that has control over him at that particular time and he doesn’t want to get on the table. -Jaffar 'Patch Eye' Basheer(onepocket.org interview)

The major difference is that a man can imagine quite well what happens if he falls off that coffee table from 500 feet up. What happens is that he can't get back on and try again. I understand what Patcheye is saying about people letting their fears control them but fear is also a survival mechanism and in the case of not wanting to do things that can get you killed it tends to work very well to keep you alive.

Just wanted to say that since it sticks me in the eye every time I read it.

John - fell off the coffee table at 500ft but lived to tell about it. :)
 

Grantstew

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Johnny has a good thought there and good advice. The big obstacle to over come is team USA, that is drawing talent from one country, facing Team Europe, that is drawing talent from several countries. Team USA would do well against team England, Team Germany, Team etc. Very hard to beat the combined talent of several countries. What would happen to the Mosconi Cup if a Team Pinoy was in the mix? I know where my money would lay.

I think Team Holland would take team USA just now...

Seriously, if you saw how well Pool is run in Germany and the Netherlands, you would be astounded. Of course being in a very small country helps, but from grass roots up the game is booming here.
 

vagabond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"...... I think you are one of the few posters who grasps the essence of what Mark is trying to achieve. He has settled to the realisation that the changes that he wanted to do could not be implemented as quickly as he thought.

But his mission is not based solely around the MC. He wants to enhance the whole image of pool and make it family friendly again. It will just take a little bit longer than the master plan indicated........"


Flow of explanations,excuses and rationalizations started.
 

Johnnyt

Burn all jump cues
Silver Member
Short races of 9 ball has "any given day" witten all over it. If the final MC score is 11-8 Europe like SJM said, and they all behave, I'll say they did darn good for being young, playing 5 world champions, and playing in Europe's home court with all it's home tean fans. Go America. Johnnyt
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Johnny's room - Marietta Billiard club - is a smoking establishment. Therefore by law, no one under the age of 18 is allowed in. So there ya go....

I dont think it will be around all that much longer.
 

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"...... I think you are one of the few posters who grasps the essence of what Mark is trying to achieve. He has settled to the realisation that the changes that he wanted to do could not be implemented as quickly as he thought.

But his mission is not based solely around the MC. He wants to enhance the whole image of pool and make it family friendly again. It will just take a little longer than the master plan indicated.
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Vagabond I assume that you were responding to my post 101 on this thread.
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So you're the financial genius. You can put together a plan of what you want to achieve, set yourself some lofty plans. Then you set out to achieve your goals.
You think that you could take a squad of players on a publicity/PR Tour around the US. You fly them in for training sessions, accommodate them. Then you order publicity material and incentive clothing etc. You update your IT equipment.
So share with us how you learned such financial acumen to achieve all this on a shoestring budget.
I am sure that Mark Wilson would be delighted to hear how to do it.

These are not excuses, explanation or apologies are needed. Money is short so you cut your cloth accordingly. It is no big deal






















Vagabond I assume that you were responding to my post 101 on this thread.

So you're the financial genius. You can put together a plan of what you want to achieve, set yourself some lofty plans. Then you set out to achieve your goals.
You think that you could take a squad of players on a publicity/PR Tour around the US
 

PhilosopherKing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Please list the rich ones. I'll give you Efren.


PS-One of the best player/gamblers ever has been sleeping in his car lately- he has NOTHING.

"Rich"... Compared to whom?

What do you suppose their lives would look like if they never picked-up a cue?
 

vagabond

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"......
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Vagabond I assume that you were responding to my post 101 on this thread.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
So you're the financial genius. You can put together a plan of what you want to achieve, set yourself some lofty plans. Then you set out to achieve your goals.
You think that you could take a squad of players on a publicity/PR Tour around the US. You fly them in for training sessions, accommodate them. Then you order publicity material and incentive clothing etc. You update your IT equipment.
So share with us how you learned such financial acumen to achieve all this on a shoestring budget.
I am sure that Mark Wilson would be delighted to hear how to do it.

These are not excuses, explanation or apologies are needed. Money is short so you cut your cloth accordingly. It is no big deVagabond I assume that you were responding to my post 101 on this thread.

So you're the financial genius. You can put together a plan of what you want to achieve, set yourself some lofty plans. Then you set out to achieve your goals.
You think that you could take a squad of players on a publicity/PR Tour around the US



The size of the bread depends upon the DOUGH in hand. Knowing that you have only "shoe string budge"t, why did you have "lofty plans"? Your goals have to be realistic and achievable. I am not incharge of your agenda and enterprise and I am not responsible for the failure of your agenda. Don`t ask me how I do it.
Sure u started giving excuses for the failed grandiose plans. Enough said.
 
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(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The major difference is that a man can imagine quite well what happens if he falls off that coffee table from 500 feet up. What happens is that he can't get back on and try again. I understand what Patcheye is saying about people letting their fears control them but fear is also a survival mechanism and in the case of not wanting to do things that can get you killed it tends to work very well to keep you alive.

Just wanted to say that since it sticks me in the eye every time I read it.

John - fell off the coffee table at 500ft but lived to tell about it. :)

Can you tell me the difference in the state of mind while driving a car 65 miles per hour vs. Walking on a manageable surface 500 ft high?

I'll tell you the difference, the table is currently way out of most people's comfort zone while the car isn't, but the fear of walking on the table is irrational. Any rational man can learn to safely walk on the high table top without any fear through progressive exercises that allow him to build up to it. He would be able to walk on the table in the same state of mind as he has while driving a car at high speeds. Other unrational fears can be conquered the same way.
 
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JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Can you tell me the difference in the state of mind while driving a car 65 miles per hour vs. Walking on a manageable surface 500 ft high?

I'll tell you the difference, the table is currently way out of most people's comfort zone while the car isn't, but the fear of walking on the table is irrational. Any rational man can learn to safely walk on the high table top without any fear through progressive exercises that allow him to build up to it. He would be able to walk on the table in the same state of mind as he has while driving a car at high speeds. Other unrational fears can be conquered the same way.

People learn to drive cars. They don't start out at 65 mph. They also know that they can safely drive at 65mph but not at 150mph so they don't drive at 150mph.

Fear is rational. Taking unneccesary risks to prove you can overcome fear is irrational. Of course it can be done and is done all the time, for thrills and for work. But that doesn't mean the original fear of the activity is a merely an illusion.

Now, I don't know how many people in their life have actually BEEN very high in the air and asked to jump. I have been. When I was 18 I was a high diver. Jumping from a 1ft platform, 90ft in the air into 1 9ft pool of water 18ft in diameter.

But later when I had a job where I was asked to bunjee jump from the same height with no water below me I wouldn't do it and climbed down the ladder instead of jumping. I could not bring myself to take the chance even though it was miniscule that something would go wrong with the equipment.

The fact is that the risk increases as the parameters change even if the activity is the same. A failed bunjee cord on a 20ft jump is survivable. From 90 feet it's not.

No amount of zen thinking changes that fact.
 

(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
People learn to drive cars. They don't start out at 65 mph.

Bingo!


The rest of your post was mainly you justifying fear, which isn't a big deal when we are talking about walking on a coffee table, but fear justifications can have severe consequences in other areas of your life.
 

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Bingo!


The rest of your post was mainly you justifying fear, which isn't a big deal when we are talking about walking on a coffee table, but fear justifications can have severe consequences in other areas of your life.

You have misunderstood Jaffeer's statement. It was the contention that since the coffee table is raised 500 feet in the air it shouldn't make a difference to easily walk across it but that a man's fear is what prevents it.

If you think that the very real fear of the consequence of falling 500 feet isn't justified then you don't understand reality. Jaffeer wasn't talking about overcoming that fear through the steps of walking on tables at heights working up to 500 feet. He was talking about going straight up to 500 feet as I interpret it. And that is a rational fear that needs no justification because the consequence of falling is clear.

Fear is not justified where there is no danger. Where real danger exists fear keeps people alive. Don't confuse inaction with fear though. Just because a person is afraid doesn't always mean that they will not act. It merely means they are more careful to weigh the options and the consequences if they can stay calm despite their fears.

And again, mastery over one's inner being doesn't change physical facts. The human body suffers catastrophic damage from a 500ft fall regardless of whether the mind falling along with that body is afraid of the fall or not.
 

(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
You have misunderstood Jaffeer's statement. It was the contention that since the coffee table is raised 500 feet in the air it shouldn't make a difference to easily walk across it but that a man's fear is what prevents it.

If you think that the very real fear of the consequence of falling 500 feet isn't justified then you don't understand reality. Jaffeer wasn't talking about overcoming that fear through the steps of walking on tables at heights working up to 500 feet. He was talking about going straight up to 500 feet as I interpret it. And that is a rational fear that needs no justification because the consequence of falling is clear.

Fear is not justified where there is no danger. Where real danger exists fear keeps people alive. Don't confuse inaction with fear though. Just because a person is afraid doesn't always mean that they will not act. It merely means they are more careful to weigh the options and the consequences if they can stay calm despite their fears.

And again, mastery over one's inner being doesn't change physical facts. The human body suffers catastrophic damage from a 500ft fall regardless of whether the mind falling along with that body is afraid of the fall or not.
Again I go back to the car. People suffer catastrophic damage from wrecks at 65 mph yet I have no fear of driving that fast. It allows me to get where I want to go and saves me time. I do it safely every day. I could walk on a coffee table 500 ft high safely everyday too if I chose to yet others might let fear get the best of them and not even be able to stand on the high table. Can you fall? Yes. Is it likely? No l, therefore it IS an irrational fear.

Just because something can kill you doesn't mean you need to fear it.
 
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