Johnny Archer & Mosconi Cup

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I picked this up from Johnny Archer's Facebook page and felt that it should have a wider airing on AZ

….. Now I see why the USA loses at the Mosconi Cup most of the time. I have been in Germany for 5 days now and i see at 15 juniors in the pool room every day working on their game. They are very respectful to other players. They are having a lot of fun being here. It is wonderful to see. Our young players in the USA can learn some things from these young players. Our young players think you get respect from gambling but you don´t. You earn respect by respecting the game first. USA has a great crop of young talent that can really do well in the sport. I hope they chose the right path to represent the sport. Like these young lads have over here

The thread eventually wanders into a bunch of posting on the Mosconi Cup from people who seem to have been in hibernation for the last six months. Johnny responds to their comments

What has Mark Wilson done different than what was done in the past? If i am wrong then i stand corrected but i haven´t seen any change other than the players on the Mosconi Cup team.
 

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
While not being outright critical of Mark Wilson the comments made by Johnny Archer do question what he has achieved so far.

Since has was appointed Mark has worked virtually every day on the Mosconi Cup project. But his hardest job to do has been financing the project.

There have been contributions from Matchroom and the BCA which allowed him to take players to San Diego and to Louisville. But budget restrictions have curtailed a number of other initiatives that he had planned.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Im afraid he really hasn't said much there but i do agree that gambling and money should not be high on your list if you decide to devote yourself to pool.
 

pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Yes Johnny has identified some areas which fail to get the attention they should and these are basically that if pool is to survive then it needs to start creating future customers. Not just juniors but all across the age spectrum. Mark Wilson is not only team captain but he also is the man to drive this game forward. His decision to drop players who had historically expected to be on the MC team was probably because it was easier for new players accept the changes that he deemed necessary. He has adopted Pool Awareness Week as a vehicle to help the game grow and all the MC Squad are active in helping him to achieve this. The actual date of PAW is 2nd to 9th November and there are activities involving pro and amateur players. a possee of pool instructors, There will be incentives on offer from the rooms and from the billiards trade.
 

BJTyler

AzB Member
Silver Member
Since has was appointed Mark has worked virtually every day on the Mosconi Cup project. But his hardest job to do has been financing the project.

There have been contributions from Matchroom and the BCA which allowed him to take players to San Diego and to Louisville. But budget restrictions have curtailed a number of other initiatives that he had planned.

I'm a little surprised that there have not been more fund raising activities. Pro-am matches, meet & greets, lessons, T-shirts, autographed apparel/equipment/memorabilia, etc... might be helpful. Even something as simple as offering VIP ticket packages to Blackpool - consisting of tickets, plus perhaps some joint team events (dinners, practices, or even travel to UK) - could raise much needed financial support.
 

krupa

The Dream Operator
Silver Member
While not being outright critical of Mark Wilson the comments made by Johnny Archer do question what he has achieved so far.

Since has was appointed Mark has worked virtually every day on the Mosconi Cup project. But his hardest job to do has been financing the project.

There have been contributions from Matchroom and the BCA which allowed him to take players to San Diego and to Louisville. But budget restrictions have curtailed a number of other initiatives that he had planned.

They are taking donations from people who want to support the team. From the Team USA facebook page:

Team USA is seeking members who are positive minded, want to win the 2014 Mosconi Cup, promote the sport, and willing to participate in Pool Awareness Week, November 2-9.

Those who sacrifice and join the movement will be awarded the Official Team Patch with a $25 membership. The entire amount of funds raised will go to training and promotion of the sport, 100%.

Please send a check made out to;
Mark Wilson
8561 Prairietown Road
Dorsey, Illinois
62021

Together we will do something special for a new era of billiards.

He also accepts money through paypal.

I respect Johnny's opinion but after the shellacking they took last year, I think any effort to do something different should be supported.
 

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pro9dg

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There have been successes for the Mosconi Cup players - Brandon Shuff, Justin Bergman, SVB. Jeremy Sossei and Corey Deuel have all been making headlines recently.

But what is interesting is that last years 'Heroes n Villains' have adopted a higher profile approach towards developing the game. Rodney Morris and Dennis Hatch are currently offering coaching wherever they go. In fact The ROCKET is involved in a PAW project.

We must presume that Johnny Archer would lend his support for any junior program that he felt would benefit from having his name linked to it.

If all these things could be integrated then the future of pool in the US would indeed be bright.

But more importantly, now is the time to do it Mark is creating the building blocks and the mortar. We just need the pople to lay them.
 

TheThaiger

Banned
Yes Johnny has identified some areas which fail to get the attention they should and these are basically that if pool is to survive then it needs to start creating future customers. Not just juniors but all across the age spectrum. Mark Wilson is not only team captain but he also is the man to drive this game forward. His decision to drop players who had historically expected to be on the MC team was probably because it was easier for new players accept the changes that he deemed necessary. He has adopted Pool Awareness Week as a vehicle to help the game grow and all the MC Squad are active in helping him to achieve this. The actual date of PAW is 2nd to 9th November and there are activities involving pro and amateur players. a possee of pool instructors, There will be incentives on offer from the rooms and from the billiards trade.

What future players? The pace of play in the pro ranks has killed the game to future generations. Archer has a point regarding gambling but the game being crushingly boring to watch has had its impact too.
 

sjm

Older and Wiser
Silver Member
Good post here by Johnny and, in my opinion, he is not saying anything about this year's team or captain.

..... Unfortunately, pool in America has, and will continue, to go in the opposite direction. Pool reality show proposals and scripts all delight in pool's gambling culture and the deceitful practices of some who count on pool for a living. Pool's bad image in America has been earned the hard way, and as best as I can tell, few in the industry are concerned about it.

The game is not in the hands of the young but in the hands of their parents. Pool would be more respectable if the poolrooms stopped looking the other way in cases of rowdiness, profanity, hustling and poor sportsmanship. There are, of course, a few exceptions, but until poolrooms provide a more kid-friendly atmosphere, parents won't steer their kids to poolrooms.

Actions speak louder than words, and those who have constructed what we call the pool scene have, far too often, show they don't care much about having young players around.
 
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King T

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I dont get it????

[SIZE="3" said:
[/SIZE]….. Now I see why the USA loses at the Mosconi Cup most of the time. I have been in Germany for 5 days now and i see at 15 juniors in the pool room every day working on their game. They are very respectful to other players. They are having a lot of fun being here. It is wonderful to see. Our young players in the USA can learn some things from these young players. Our young players think you get respect from gambling but you don´t. You earn respect by respecting the game first. USA has a great crop of young talent that can really do well in the sport. I hope they chose the right path to represent the sport. Like these young lads have over here

Johnny is a gambler right? As are all of the Pro players in this country so who is the example these potential young players supposed to look up to?

Pool is about gambling, for better or worst, that aint the problem, the game is not in front of kids in this country, its not on TV so its out of sight out of mind to kids.

Young kids in this country are not respectful of anything in many cases, so why pool? If we cant find the right kids and bring them along with the correct attitude about the game, then we are not supposed to field good players, every other country has figured that out.
 

molinatx4206

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Success ro9dg;4874047]There have been successes for the Mosconi Cup players - Brandon Shuff, Justin Bergman, SVB. Jeremy Sossei and Corey Deuel have all been making headlines recently.

But what is interesting is that last years 'Heroes n Villains' have adopted a higher profile approach towards developing the game. Rodney Morris and Dennis Hatch are currently offering coaching wherever they go. In fact The ROCKET is involved in a PAW project.

We must presume that Johnny Archer would lend his support for any junior program that he felt would benefit from having his name linked to it.

If all these things could be integrated then the future of pool in the US would indeed be bright.

But more importantly, now is the time to do it Mark is creating the building blocks and the mortar. We just need the pople to lay them.[/QUOTE]

Succeses? Shuff won a nobody bar box tournament with the who's who of regional American irrelevance.sossei got to a final and lost to our second best .and the only other threat in that tournament is someone who will never make the other team.bergman has been on a rip lately along with sky and its a shame that he isnt in the mix.Corey belongs on that second tier of American players(say hello to johnny).our first four should be (in no particular order) Shane Justin sky and mike d.the next ought to be rocket because he's been going abroad to face the world's toughest.hatch is behind him followed by shuff, jeremy, earl,corey, and johnny. Throw the pinoys and Taiwanese in the mix and our American team would be the fourth favorite.
 

hang-the-9

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Im afraid he really hasn't said much there but i do agree that gambling and money should not be high on your list if you decide to devote yourself to pool.

And yet we have a forum just for those purposes and many players say "I won't play you unless it's for money, not worth my time to put my sticks together".

The biggest issue is no oranization in "pro" pool. There is no Pro Tour, there is no Pro Camp there are very few schools with pool clubs or leagues. Kids are left on their own if they want to improve, and if you don't have parents that encourage you, you end up under the wing of some gambler who teaches you how to miss to setup a sucker to take a 100 off from.
 

(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I picked this up from Johnny Archer's Facebook page and felt that it should have a wider airing on AZ

….. Now I see why the USA loses at the Mosconi Cup most of the time. I have been in Germany for 5 days now and i see at 15 juniors in the pool room every day working on their game. They are very respectful to other players. They are having a lot of fun being here. It is wonderful to see. Our young players in the USA can learn some things from these young players. Our young players think you get respect from gambling but you don´t. You earn respect by respecting the game first. USA has a great crop of young talent that can really do well in the sport. I hope they chose the right path to represent the sport. Like these young lads have over here

The thread eventually wanders into a bunch of posting on the Mosconi Cup from people who seem to have been in hibernation for the last six months. Johnny responds to their comments

What has Mark Wilson done different than what was done in the past? If i am wrong then i stand corrected but i haven´t seen any change other than the players on the Mosconi Cup team.
This is not true imo. Look at the Filipino kids who gamble and turn out to be great players, look at SVB, look at Johnny himself.
 

Mr. Bond

Orbis Non Sufficit
Gold Member
Silver Member
I think Archer's point is less about the gambling and more about teaching our upcoming players to have respect for the game, each other, and themselves.

As a side note, players who shoot well, do so in spite of gambling, not because of it.

As for Mark Wilson and The Team, keep in mind the bigger picture. Which is integrity and respect. With both his college program and team USA he is leading by example.
Does the pool world really need more assholes, or does it need more people to look up to? Dumb question.
 

Houstoer

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If Johnny felt this way he could jump on the bus with Mark Wilson and help him to try to make things better. I'm sure Johnny has a lot of resources that teamed with the right people could help change things.
 

jaetee

rack master ;)
Silver Member
I think Archer's point is less about the gambling and more about teaching our upcoming players to have respect for the game, each other, and themselves.

As a side note, players who shoot well, do so in spite of gambling, not because of it.

As for Mark Wilson and The Team, keep in mind the bigger picture. Which is integrity and respect. With both his college program and team USA he is leading by example.
Does the pool world really need more assholes, or does it need more people to look up to? Dumb question.

I agree with the points being made here...

And Johnny Archer's comments are spot-on.

With 20 years of living in Germany, and lots of time in German pool halls under my belt I can assure you that pool gambling exists over there, too... It's just not as "in your face" and such a dominant cloud over cue sports as it is here in the USA.

I'll also add that most of the pool halls over there are much more appropriate and accessible for juniors to frequent. There are nationally sanctioned junior leagues, just as there are for adults.

From a sociological perspective, I find that kids, in general, assume (and are given) more responsibility much sooner in life in Germany than here in the USA. A more mature culture with much better public transportation options being prime contributing factors...

Another big difference..., pool's popularity and reputation are not linked to old movies.
 

BRussell

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
What has Mark Wilson done different than what was done in the past? If i am wrong then i stand corrected but i haven´t seen any change other than the players on the Mosconi Cup team.


I saw this comment on Facebook. What Mosconi team in the past has:

Obtained a larger pool of players in a "hopefuls" team, and then made a cut to the final team?
Travelled as a team promoting the sport around the country?
Associated themselves with a pool awareness week promotion?
Had fundraisers to support the team?
Done fundraisers for wounded veterans?
Developed a long-term plan over a 10-month period?
 
This is not true imo. Look at the Filipino kids who gamble and turn out to be great players, look at SVB, look at Johnny himself.

Nonsense. Gambling has nothing to do with it.

People need a reason to play and improve. If there is nothing significant between bar leagues and full on world beater pro pool you end up having what we have which is nothing to get people to higher levels. Aside from a handful of naturally talented phenoms who had training as children from family or someone into pool, this country develops very few top level players. You got shortstops and some guys who played all their lives who are very good...not gonna ever be great.

To think we can't field 5 guys who can compete at Mosconi is shameful really. Now we are just gonna go in there with the best attitude ever...and get our teeth kicked in.
 
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