"Poolology", Maybe the best $10 ever spent!

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
On a jump shot the preset shot line is there, but the most important aspect of the shot is clearing the blocker ball, so I feel I better make sure my tip is coming down in the right place on the CB.

Right. Also when the CB is right in front of a ball and you're having to jack up to make contact with it to shoot at an OB some where else on the table without hitting the ball first before contacting the CB or possibly miscuing. Also the same thing when the CB is flush against the rail to avoid a miscue once you get your aim established.

Ooops, forgot one other shot for me. A masse. I don't practice or attempt the type of masse shots like the trick shot artists but every once in a while a small masse around a ball is required when it's a hanger or a safety is needed. When I'm on my table I only practice those type of shots with a break cloth under the CB. I'm not about to take a divot out of my own cloth or scuff it. I don't think I could even put a big curve on the CB with a full stroke hard masse because I never practice it on my own table and still don't want to damage any others. You gotta look at the CB the entire stroke.
 
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paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Right. Also when the CB is right in front of a ball and you're having to jack up to make contact with it to shoot at an OB some where else on the table without hitting the ball first before contacting the CB or possibly miscuing. Also the same thing when the CB is flush against the rail to avoid a miscue once you get your aim established.

Ooops, forgot one other shot for me. A masse. I don't practice or attempt the type of masse shots like the trick shot artists but every once in a while a small masse around a ball is required when it's a hanger or a safety is needed. When I'm on my table I only practice those type of shots with a break cloth under the CB. I'm not about to take a divot out of my own cloth or scuff it. I don't think I could even put a big curve on the CB with a full stroke hard masse because I never practice it on my own table and still don't want to damage any others. You gotta look at the CB the entire stroke.

Quote:

"Right. Also when the CB is right in front of a ball"......STOP: analyze........COMPLETE:

FACT: Inefficient context cluster = 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 = 4: analyze.......COMPLETE:

CONCLUSION: Specify and rectify vs time + value = sufficient response correction: analyze...........COMPLETE:

FACT: SUFFICIENT VALUE: analyze.......COMPLETE:

EFFICIENT RESPONSE: "Shooting over a ob" = 2 + 2 = 4: analyze.........COMPLETE:

CONTEXTUAL CORRECTION = "Shooting over a ob" = NON SEQUITUR but still universally understood in the realm of pool world 3rd dimensional reality.

Get it right or I mean NON SEQUITUR "right" you big arachnid YOU.

FACT: Lot of solve in viewing cb last.

FACT: MISCUE = NON SEQUITUR: analyze......COMPLETE:

FACT: Don't get me started.

FACT: Table arrival of training continuance in T - 1:13:14.5632789445289054

Have a nice day guys and girls
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All joking aside but in reality I'm "never" joking, pitch and yaw is severely overlooked vs the reality of importance, especially pitch which can give severly skewed feed back from a player delivery perspective.....because you don't have eyes to the side view of shaft/tip contact delivery.

If these factors are understood and controlled: analyze.......COMPLETE:

CONJECTURE: chalk and super soft tips weeeeeee! is for wussies.

Have a nice day!
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Quote:

"Right. Also when the CB is right in front of a ball"......STOP: analyze........COMPLETE:

FACT: Inefficient context cluster = 2 + 1 + 1 - 1 + 1 = 4: analyze.......COMPLETE:

CONCLUSION: Specify and rectify vs time + value = sufficient response correction: analyze...........COMPLETE:

FACT: SUFFICIENT VALUE: analyze.......COMPLETE:

EFFICIENT RESPONSE: "Shooting over a ob" = 2 + 2 = 4: analyze.........COMPLETE:

CONTEXTUAL CORRECTION = "Shooting over a ob" = NON SEQUITUR but still universally understood in the realm of pool world 3rd dimensional reality.

Get it right or I mean NON SEQUITUR "right" you big arachnid YOU.

FACT: Lot of solve in viewing cb last.

FACT: MISCUE = NON SEQUITUR: analyze......COMPLETE:

FACT: Don't get me started.

FACT: Table arrival of training continuance in T - 1:13:14.5632789445289054

Have a nice day guys and girls

The game of pool is learned, taught, played, and improved upon over time to play better or as well as one desires after putting in the time and effort to improve to their highest level.

You have your way. But if I ever decided to go in your direction with pool by reducing each and ever aspect of it down, down, down, down and the furthest it could go down to the level or a QUARK or LEPTON, I would either turn into a
stark raving DOLT or a stark raving POLT. Neither of which interests me one IOTA.

Do you catch my drift?
 
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paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The game of pool is learned, taught, played, and improved upon over time to play better or as well as one desires after putting in the time and effort to improve to their highest level.

You have your way. But if I ever decided to go in your direction with pool by reducing each and ever aspect of it down, down, down, down and the furthest it could go down to the level or a QUARK or LEPTON, I would either turn into a
stark raving DOLT or a stark raving POLT.

Do you catch my drift?

Quark or lepton.....I like that thank you very much. I don't know what it means but I shall look it up and I honestly believe I'll be using those words in the future and it's also possible that depending on their meanings, i may reference you when using them.

Just like when I use the word "solve", i got that from Stan Shuffett who I think has done excellent work in certain particulars that gave me direction.

On that note, do you use CTE? I understand you are an advocate. If you are a user, then don't you look at the CB last in general?

If i am incorrect about that application of CTE, then I have issue with Stan because he has made it clear about aiming the CB and if im wrong, then his wording is not clear and I don't think my comprehension is the culprit.

But whatever, Im used to being wrong all the time when i add Paul + 1 or more.

Any way, just curious and thanks. Im outta here. Got to figure out this geometric magic show. I got left side tractor beam issues. The force is strong on this one.

Later.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Brian -- Repeating something I wrote back in post #36 of this thread:

"I believe that the recommendations for 5/8 and 3/8 hits, using the edge of the tip or shaft, are fine for most cue sticks when the OB and CB are fairly close to each other (and appear approximately the same size) but not when they are far apart and the OB appears much smaller in relation to the tip. At long distances between the balls, the 5/8 recommendation will result in an undercut and the 3/8 recommendation will result in an overcut."

Yes, I remember. It's really not a problem with shots thicker than a 1/4 aim. The distance between the balls changes the perspective of the shot slighty, shifting the cut angle by a small degree, not much. The shift difference on a 5/8 shot between a CB that's 2 feet from the OB and a CB 5 feet from the OB (both CBs on the same center-to-center line to the OB) is less than 1°. This means the shot angle (22.5°) shifts across the mouth of the pocket as the distance increases, but the shift is insignificant (less than 1°).

As the CB position gets closer to the OB (on the same center-to-center line), the change in perspective, which is measured in degrees, dramatically begins to increase and the shot angle shifts too far away from the pocket, causing the particular fractional aim point to be too thick of a hit. All shot angles have different shifts, called "offset angles" in the book. Thin cuts have larger offsets than thick cuts, but if the CB is more than a foot from the OB on thinner cuts (or 6 to 8" on thicker cuts) the offset angles are not a factor when it comes to pocketing the ball. This info is in the book.

I must not have explained what I'm talking about well enough, because it seems like your response addresses something else entirely. I'll try again.

Let's say we're cutting to the left with a 3/8-ball aim. The proper shot (ignoring throw) is to send the center of the CB at a point 9/32" (1/8th of a ball diameter) outside the right edge of the OB. Your recommendation for that shot is to align the tip/ferrule/stick "flush against the outside edge of the object ball."

When CB/OB separation is fairly small (balls close together), the balls appear to be about the same size. And the width of the cue tip or ferrule appears about the same size relative to each ball. So when you point the left edge of the tip at the right edge of the OB, you're also pointing the center of the tip a half-tip outside the OB edge. And, for tips of a normal size on pool cues, half a tip is not too far from the desired aim of 9/32" outside the OB edge. So your recommendation, to aim the left edge of the tip at the right edge of the OB, works for many of those 3/8-ball-aim shots, and all is well.

But now consider what the picture is when the CB/OB separation is large (balls far apart). The OB looks much smaller than the CB, and the tip, relative to the OB, appears to be much larger. The apparent width of the tip/ferrule from shooting position behind the CB might even appear to be nearly as wide as the OB. So if you aim the left edge of the tip or ferrule at the right edge of the OB, where is the center of the tip/stick pointing? It's pointing much more than 9/32" outside the right edge of the OB. And that means you'll overcut the shot.

Aside:
  • In fact, aiming the inside edge of the tip or ferrule at the outside edge of the OB is an approximation method some people use for real thin cuts at long distances. Why does that work? It works because the center of the ghost ball for extreme cuts is nearly a half ball off the edge of the OB. And when you aim the side of the tip/ferrule at the edge of the OB, you are essentially also pointing the center of the tip/ferrule at approximately the center of the ghost ball -- just where you need to! However, it's just an approximation for accurately aiming CB edge to OB edge (or tip/ferrule center to ghost ball center), and its effectiveness should vary as the apparent widths of the tip/ferrule and the OB change with changes in the amount of CB/OB separation.

For cutting to the left with a 5/8-ball aim, the proper shot (again ignoring throw) is to send the center of the CB at a point 9/32" inside the right edge of the OB. Your recommendation for that shot is to align the tip/ferrule/stick "flush inside the edge of the object ball." As before, this works pretty well when the CB/OB separation is small. But when the separation is large, you're really aiming the center of the stick more than 9/32" inside the right edge and you'll undercut the shot.

[Now, I imagine one's eye position can have an effect on these perceptions and how to handle the distant shots, but I think the effect I discussed will be pretty standard.]

And note that the effect I'm talking about does not apply when simply aiming the center of the stick at something like the quarter points on the OB or the edge of the OB -- the tip still looks very "fat" relative to the distant OB, but the center of the tip is still pointing at the same place no matter how fat it is. But aiming with the edge of the tip can drastically change where the center of the tip is pointing depending on how "fat" the tip is relative to the OB.
 

ballbanger

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
So last nite i chose to not go in the 9 ball weekly and put some time in on this. Got to say i'm glad i stayed and practiced with this system. I am very happy with the results i'm seeing. I cant remember the last time i put in that amount of time on the table practicing, but the results kept me going. I think this is similar to the way i was aiming but not really sure where to hit the ball consistently but with this now i know. I can see why i was missing certain shots i wasn't really recognizing the fraction (so hitting them in the wrong spot not recognizing the faction) but seeing them much better now. I play on a 9 footer that i have in my pool room at home and the pool hall i play at has 9 footers. Like a was reading in other posts this also helps with so many other aspects of the game for me anyhow trying to leave for the half ball hit. That gem there for me is great.

For a couple off shots i cant seem to figure out the factions, ball is on 30 alignment value CB is 10 aim line so the same for 25 and 15 for some reason my brain isnt getting it.

So i am so glad i noticed this post cheers Brian best 12 bucks ever for me. I can see my handicap going up. Cheers
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I must not have explained what I'm talking about well enough, because it seems like your response addresses something else entirely. I'll try again.

Let's say we're cutting to the left with a 3/8-ball aim. The proper shot (ignoring throw) is to send the center of the CB at a point 9/32" (1/8th of a ball diameter) outside the right edge of the OB. Your recommendation for that shot is to align the tip/ferrule/stick "flush against the outside edge of the object ball."

When CB/OB separation is fairly small (balls close together), the balls appear to be about the same size. And the width of the cue tip or ferrule appears about the same size relative to each ball. So when you point the left edge of the tip at the right edge of the OB, you're also pointing the center of the tip a half-tip outside the OB edge. And, for tips of a normal size on pool cues, half a tip is not too far from the desired aim of 9/32" outside the OB edge. So your recommendation, to aim the left edge of the tip at the right edge of the OB, works for many of those 3/8-ball-aim shots, and all is well.

But now consider what the picture is when the CB/OB separation is large (balls far apart). The OB looks much smaller than the CB, and the tip, relative to the OB, appears to be much larger. The apparent width of the tip/ferrule from shooting position behind the CB might even appear to be nearly as wide as the OB. So if you aim the left edge of the tip or ferrule at the right edge of the OB, where is the center of the tip/stick pointing? It's pointing much more than 9/32" outside the right edge of the OB. And that means you'll overcut the shot.

Aside:
  • In fact, aiming the inside edge of the tip or ferrule at the outside edge of the OB is an approximation method some people use for real thin cuts at long distances. Why does that work? It works because the center of the ghost ball for extreme cuts is nearly a half ball off the edge of the OB. And when you aim the side of the tip/ferrule at the edge of the OB, you are essentially also pointing the center of the tip/ferrule at approximately the center of the ghost ball -- just where you need to! However, it's just an approximation for accurately aiming CB edge to OB edge (or tip/ferrule center to ghost ball center), and its effectiveness should vary as the apparent widths of the tip/ferrule and the OB change with changes in the amount of CB/OB separation.

For cutting to the left with a 5/8-ball aim, the proper shot (again ignoring throw) is to send the center of the CB at a point 9/32" inside the right edge of the OB. Your recommendation for that shot is to align the tip/ferrule/stick "flush inside the edge of the object ball." As before, this works pretty well when the CB/OB separation is small. But when the separation is large, you're really aiming the center of the stick more than 9/32" inside the right edge and you'll undercut the shot.

[Now, I imagine one's eye position can have an effect on these perceptions and how to handle the distant shots, but I think the effect I discussed will be pretty standard.]

And note that the effect I'm talking about does not apply when simply aiming the center of the stick at something like the quarter points on the OB or the edge of the OB -- the tip still looks very "fat" relative to the distant OB, but the center of the tip is still pointing at the same place no matter how fat it is. But aiming with the edge of the tip can drastically change where the center of the tip is pointing depending on how "fat" the tip is relative to the OB.

Ok....now we're on the page. Thanks for that explanation. It's more of an imagined visual at the ob end, not from the CB end like your eye is looking down the shaft or ferrule toward a distant ball. When the balls are within 2 or 3 feet it's easy to see. From a greater distance your brain automatically makes the visual of the shaft at the aim point correct in size according to the size of the ob at that distance. At least it does for me. I mean, it's obvious to the brain that the tip 3 ft from the eyes will be smaller (proportionally correct) against a ball farther away.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Right. Also when the CB is right in front of a ball and you're having to jack up to make contact with it to shoot at an OB some where else on the table without hitting the ball first before contacting the CB or possibly miscuing. Also the same thing when the CB is flush against the rail to avoid a miscue once you get your aim established.

Ooops, forgot one other shot for me. A masse. I don't practice or attempt the type of masse shots like the trick shot artists but every once in a while a small masse around a ball is required when it's a hanger or a safety is needed. When I'm on my table I only practice those type of shots with a break cloth under the CB. I'm not about to take a divot out of my own cloth or scuff it. I don't think I could even put a big curve on the CB with a full stroke hard masse because I never practice it on my own table and still don't want to damage any others. You gotta look at the CB the entire stroke.

Same here.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
Ok....now we're on the page. Thanks for that explanation. It's more of an imagined visual at the ob end, not from the CB end like your eye is looking down the shaft or ferrule toward a distant ball. When the balls are within 2 or 3 feet it's easy to see. From a greater distance your brain automatically makes the visual of the shaft at the aim point correct in size according to the size of the ob at that distance. At least it does for me. I mean, it's obvious to the brain that the tip 3 ft from the eyes will be smaller (proportionally correct) against a ball farther away.

I'd be surprised if that is true for most people. It certainly doesn't happen automatically for me. With large CB/OB separation, I overcut the 3/8-ball aim and undercut the 5/8-ball aim using your edge-of-tip recommendations. I find it better to ignore the edge of the stick at those distances for those two fractional overlaps and just aim the center of the stick outside or inside the OB edge by my best estimate of an eighth of the OB's apparent width at that distance.
 

BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
I'd be surprised if that is true for most people. It certainly doesn't happen automatically for me. With large CB/OB separation, I overcut the 3/8-ball aim and undercut the 5/8-ball aim using your edge-of-tip recommendations. I find it better to ignore the edge of the stick at those distances for those two fractional overlaps and just aim the center of the stick outside or inside the OB edge by my best estimate of an eighth of the OB's apparent width at that distance.

So you actually visualize a long 3/8 shot aim like this...

picture.php


?? That's impossible. Lol. It's not stretching the imagination to picture your cue shaft going straight through the CB to the OB like this .....(I laid the entire cue between the balls for exaggeration, but the brain is easily capable of imagining the correct aim point based on where the shaft would be if it were at the ob)

picture.php
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
So last nite i chose to not go in the 9 ball weekly and put some time in on this. Got to say i'm glad i stayed and practiced with this system. I am very happy with the results i'm seeing. I cant remember the last time i put in that amount of time on the table practicing, but the results kept me going. I think this is similar to the way i was aiming but not really sure where to hit the ball consistently but with this now i know. I can see why i was missing certain shots i wasn't really recognizing the fraction (so hitting them in the wrong spot not recognizing the faction) but seeing them much better now. I play on a 9 footer that i have in my pool room at home and the pool hall i play at has 9 footers. Like a was reading in other posts this also helps with so many other aspects of the game for me anyhow trying to leave for the half ball hit. That gem there for me is great.

For a couple off shots i cant seem to figure out the factions, ball is on 30 alignment value CB is 10 aim line so the same for 25 and 15 for some reason my brain isnt getting it.

So i am so glad i noticed this post cheers Brian best 12 bucks ever for me. I can see my handicap going up. Cheers

Great news! I'll pm you about a quick way to get the aim point without thinking/figuring fractions.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Quark or lepton.....I like that thank you very much. I don't know what it means but I shall look it up and I honestly believe I'll be using those words in the future and it's also possible that depending on their meanings, i may reference you when using them.

No need to reference me. You can reference DOLT or POLT if you wish.

Just like when I use the word "solve", i got that from Stan Shuffett who I think has done excellent work in certain particulars that gave me direction.

Stan IS the MAN!

On that note, do you use CTE? I understand you are an advocate. If you are a user, then don't you look at the CB last in general?

I guess I'm bisensual. (I hope you don't have dyslexia and read the wrong word into it)

If i am incorrect about that application of CTE, then I have issue with Stan because he has made it clear about aiming the CB and if im wrong, then his wording is not clear and I don't think my comprehension is the culprit.

NEVER doubt Stan.

Any way, just curious and thanks. Im outta here. Got to figure out this geometric magic show. I got left side tractor beam issues. The force is strong on this one.

Later.

No rush. Take as much time as you need. Just get it right.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
So you actually visualize a long 3/8 shot aim like this...

?? That's impossible. Lol. It's not stretching the imagination to picture your cue shaft going straight through the CB to the OB like this .....(I laid the entire cue between the balls for exaggeration, but the brain is easily capable of imagining the correct aim point based on where the shaft would be if it were at the ob)

Right, the top picture (but with the stick in place behind the CB) is what I've been saying will not work with a large CB/OB separation, and it's the way many people could read the recommendation in your book.
 
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BC21

https://www.playpoolbetter.com
Gold Member
Silver Member
Right, the top picture is what I've been saying will not work for large CB/OB separation, and it's the way many people could read the recommendation in your book.

I never thought anyone would read it that way, but I suppose it's likely some people could. Thanks for the clarification. I believe I do say in the book to imagine or visualize the cue tip going straight through the CB all the way to the aim point. I assumed most people would not imagine their tip being the size of the ob when it reached the aim point. Lol. Oh well. Nothing to be done about now, except maybe a youtube clip to clear up any confusion. Thanks.
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
No rush. Take as much time as you need. Just get it right.

This Polt reference, I believe you have used this more than once if I recall, correct?

I assure you that I am working hard to get it right and I would like to make a official announcement:

Paul's bishop takes pool's rook, CHECK.

I dedicated another year in which there is less than 11 months remaining and I believe that a point has been reached of:

Enter.......the end game.
 

SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
This Polt reference, I believe you have used this more than once if I recall, correct?

Sounds like you're counting. Why bother counting when having so much fun.

I assure you that I am working hard to get it right and I would like to make a official announcement:

If you only knew how excited the pool world is with anticipation.

I dedicated another year in which there is less than 11 months remaining and I believe that a point has been reached of:

Enter.......the end game.

Phew! What a relief!
 

paultex

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Phew! What a relief!

Come on now, if I were counting, I would not be recalling if"ing. The reference is an association to an email of mine. If your use is purely coincidental, then perhaps you can at least or atleast understand.

Not trying to be clever, I really don't know if it's at least or atleast and Google is not my friend. The if'ing I consider clever. And for the record I still haven't looked up those two other cool words but I will. I don't remember them off hand right now lol. Screw it, I'll look it up after I say some important words:

FACT: There are 3 sides to a cueball that requires 3 angles of attack for each side. This encompasses the mandatory objective of equatorial satisfaction: analyze........COMPLETE:

TRIPLE CUBED = The Paul's final form, the 27 styles, the ULTIMATE POOL TECHNIQUE

Yes, I am quite relieved and have earned a break but I don't wants it manggg.

Don't player HATE.......GRAVITATE = GAIN
 
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SpiderWebComm

HelpImBeingOppressed
Silver Member
Yes, I am quite relieved and have earned a break

Good for you and glad to hear you finally relieved yourself with a bathroom break.

You do know if you're too fully loaded on one end or the other or on both sides, it could affect your posture and balance which will skew your entire experiments up until unloading it.

Be careful in the future. We'd hate to see this drag on for another year.
 
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